Antenatal support thread for women who have chosen to terminate VI

[Coffeeandchocolate]

Time for a new thread, ladies. May it continue to give us comfort, and help us find a special, sunny place in our hearts, where our babies are safely tucked in. May it bring good luck to everyone who posts or justs reads.

And to the old-timers, it?s so lovely to still have you here with us, reaching out.

Monkey, welcome back. I was actually thinking about you this morning, and also about Fufulina and Popsy. So sorry to hear you are not well, but I hope that after the summer holiday you will find a bit more peace and gentleness.

About ttc... it?s certainly very scary. I think I threw myself into it without really acknowledging what I was doing, it seemed very unreal, so unreal that it somehow felt weird to talk about it. I think the answer is not clear cut, and after all that we?ve been through there is never that excitement we had when we were trying for a baby without really knowing how many things can go wrong. But I think you are ready to try again when you realise that the fear is not as intense as the urge to have a baby.

Sorry if what I?m saying doesn?t make much sense, I find my thoughts are a bit chaotic today and I can?t concentrate on anything very well. I feel overwhelmed. Anyway, I hope these last couple of weeks until the summer holiday pass quickly and then you will be able to take it a bit easier. Big hugs xxxx

What you said does make sense Coffee. I feel like I don't want to acknowledge what we're probably going to try and do. I have such a strong urge for a baby that sometimes it completely overwhelms me, but I suppose it's normal to feel so terrified after what we've been through.
I'm not surprised you are finding it difficult to concentrate today. You have a lot going on. Will you have the opportunity to spend some quiet time somewhere today? Maybe that will calm you slightly?
Thanks for the good wishes, I'm sure I'll get myself a little more together soon x

No quiet time today yet, but when we finish work dh and I will go to the cemetery to light a candle and then probably just go out for a meal, and spend what I hope will be a peaceful hour remembering our little girl.

Just dropped in to check on you girls, and wow Coffee, that is wonderful! Congratulations and well done. I agree totally with everything Scrum just said. I am so pleased you have a little something (hardly little) to bring you a touch of happiness today, and I'm sure Silvia would be too. I'm so happy for you! Xxx

Gina, although we often say that the build up to the day is often worse than the day itself, as you know, it isnt always so. As Cant said, you can't control when the waves will come, just go with them. Hopefully by now, you are at home in the arms of your DP xxx

Lovely to hear from you Monkey, though sorry you are finding it hard going right now. Will be thinking of you and wishing you lighter days ahead xxx

Coffee, wtf. Wow. What a memorable day. These are two separate facts, one needs commemoration, one needs getting your head round. Thoughts and love with/to you.

To everyone else, what amazing news for our thread.

Love and light xx.

Congratulations Coffee, funny how these things always seem to happen at the same time. I had my 6 week scan on my last due date and it was a very emotional day. Sadly there is no way I will be pregnant on any of my upcoming anniversaries, due date of Alex, "birth" date of Ben, even though we planned it that way to try to take away some of the pain, but we just managed to double or triple it.

Oh Peanut, what can I say, I wish I could find some ?right? words, but there aren?t any. What you are going through is so unfair and so painful, and I am so so sorry. Big hugs xxxx

Congratulations Coffee! I know it's tough but it's really good. And don't beat yourself up for how you feel today. I never felt the deep sense of loss on the due dates that I had at other times (and actually I was pregnant on both due dates - obviously the first time around it went wrong a matter of weeks later, but still). I agree with Scrum's lovely words too.

Peanut, it is crappy and unfair, and I am thinking of you. I really hope you can conceive again soon.

Monkey, I never articulated to myself that I was TTC either - too damn scary. I just did, without ever admitting it.

Coffee I'm sorry, didn't mean to be down on your good news - if anyone deserves to be pg you do, you've been through it.

Allways - good luck for starting wed - downregulating? Do you get symptoms with it? I was dreading it as I am really hormonally sensitive but found it really easy. And that really gives me hope as I remember reading some of your - and Coffee's - really raw posts when I was pregnant and reeling away from the pain. So 15 weeks later you're up for it again - I can't imagine ever being in that state but you give me hope that I will be again. Am not even at a month yet.

Last time around I was ready to go again immediately, this time I realise I've spent 8 out of the last 12 months pregnant, 4 of them puking and not being there for DD. If I do get pregnant again it will be very highly monitored possibly weekly scans, possibly bedrest so I can't leap into it. We have to have some quality family time first and the timing has to be precise - I'm not losing another summer or Xmas to morning sickess.

Hmmmm DH has gone down to a bar in the village to watch Serbia in the football, DD says she's sleeping out here on the terrace and is all wrapped up in a rug so for once I have time to post so fear it may be a long one.

Mishta, I love your idea of reading back through the posts to work out what's what - think I may pour myself a very large glass of wine and spend the evening doing just that.

Well as for me I'm struggling really hard to keep my head above water. I need to read back through the posts to know what I'm feeling is normal. I'm like a dead woman. Every second of the day my head is thinking about it all, physically I'm dreadful, the sheer weight of it is dragging me down. I'd like to jsut lie in bed by can't. DH is as always tinkering on the car even though we're on holiday and I as always spend all day entertaining DD - and a joy she is bu I need time to cry. It's all locked up inside though and I cant force it out.

Is that normal - to spend 2 weeks weeping then just freeze? I suppose being on holiday is not normal life anyway.

Logically I'm ok about it all, I know we'll have more IVF, I know I'll be heavily monitored if I get pregnant, I know it was bad luck. But when does that bad luck change?

ANd I'm back in the world of TTC which doesn't really work for us. I'm already thinking about where i might be in my cycle and I know I can't get pregnant and shouldn't even try til we've seen the consultant and I've rested but 5 years of TTC and it's impossible to stop.

There's also part of me who thinks - and this is truly awful, can only express it here - that it was a donor egg, not part of me, so somehow it's less important. ANd all I think of is Ben the heart baby not this last one. Feels like maybe that donor wasn't meant to add to our family. But then with such bad luck as my mum says, maybe it just wasn't meant to be. And I do wonder that - if I can't conceive and can't carry a baby I'm really fighting nature and maybe should just give up.

Phew, so much to say, I realise how much I'm, missing certain RL friends who do listen. I daren't burden DH with too much in case he says no to trying again.

Dear Peanut - short post as I'll have to head to bed soon; but I think Cant or someone on here pointed out that holidays can be tough times when you are grieving. You are 'meant' to be having a good time, other holidaymakers around you appear to be having a good time, the purpose of a holiday is to get away from it all... but you carry it with you. There's no getting away, just the additional time to think about things that if you were at home you might be distracted from. On the other hand, having your DD during the day means you can't release yourself emotionally. I wonder if your DH tinkering with the car is his way of not focusing on the loss you've had?

I think there is a frozen stage of loss, but equally who is to say what is 'normal' given the situation you've just had? I think feeling frozen is neither right nor wrong, it's just the way you are coping with it at present - keeping it manageable, containable until the right time. Some people find writing or drawing/using art materials helps in expressing that which they fear to speak about - would writing things in a journal that you then rip up/get rid of help?

Re the importance of the loss, I understand what you are saying. I know how hard you found the time around losing Ben, given he was your miracle baby, given the mixed prognosis that required a truly difficult decision. This time you were already worried about how you'd feel about a baby born to you of someone else's egg - and also the loss was simpler; devastating but final. So I can see how it would be Ben that you focus on more. I've no wise words re conceiving again, but as you say you would be given so much more antenatal care - and also each pregnancy IS different, it only takes another successful pregnancy and your odds would be totally changed (if that makes sense). But for now, while you are struggling, perhaps your instinct of wanting to wait and spend time with your DD is the right thing to do.

Please do feel that you can keep posting on here - I'm not sure whether what I or anyone else says is the 'right' thing, but I do know that getting thoughts out of your head can only help you come to terms with how you feel.

xxx NM (and so much for the short post!)

Sorry - just thought I hope you don't mind me saying Ben's prognosis was mixed, I just know it meant you agonised about it for a long time before making your decision, trying to find out all you could; and that this time there was no decision. And I think as others have said, the grieving is different as a result.

Peanut, you've been through so much, it's no wonder you have such mixed emotions. I don't really have any advice to offer besides just accepting that you feel what you feel at the time, and try not to feel that you shouldn't feel certain things. You will work your way through, its still so early for you. It must be hard being away from your RL friends. I'm glad that you feel able to share your feelings here with us. Take care xxx

Quick post because I?m at work and having a manic day, still no internet at home.
Just wanted to say to Peanut that I read your message, and please don?t worry for a bit that you were down on my news. You were not. And what you?re going through is so immensely painful, your feelings so mixed right now. It?s so good you can let it all out in here.

I have to dash, but much love, keep on posting if it helps xxxx

Hello Everyone

Just a quickie to say a big hello and hug to Peanut.

Lovely, I think a Numpty said holidays can be tough for all of those reasons and also that there is sometimes the expectation that after a holiday you are somehow much better and healed in a more rapid way than if you hadn't gone on holiday. Of course this isn't the case. Sometimes it is a good distraction, other times a bit more isolating but the grief is still there...try and use it to be a bit more lazy and to get a bit more rest to build up your stregnth for whatever comes next for you. And in regards to Ben and your most recent donor egg baby, maybe it is just as simple as with Ben you felt like you could imagine him a little more whereas with the donar egg baby perhaps this was a little more difficult to do until you met him. It doesn't mean that you would have loved him less, just that you either a. couldn't imagine or after Ben didn't dare to imagine. Maybe. Anyway, just a thought and hopefully you are not thinking 'shut the **ck up you have no idea' ; )

I am doing OK although had a weepy day yesterday when felt urgent need to look at my 12 week scan photo and weep and then forensically run through every aspect of that day, what I was wearing, the conversation I had in the lift, my husband telling me I was silly worrying after the scan was so good when I got worried about the delay going into get the results. Not sure why I do this, maybe to process as it is still all so unbelievable, maybe to punish myself as after all our baby's condition was most likely compatable with life and I judge myself on our decision, even though I feel that it is was the right thing for us. I wrote on the scan photos 'Baby [Surname], loved and lost May 2010' but when I look at it I feel its not strictly true. I didn't just lose it. Anyway, better today aside from tears just now writing that last bit.

Love to all.

Hello ladies, I am back online at home after a couple of days and it felt like ages. But no, I am definitely not a Mumsnet junkie!

Yesterday evening was of course sad. We didn?t feel up to going out in the end, just went to the cemetery and then home, and didn?t do much.

Peanut, I just wanted to say about you feeling frozen: I remember posting in here shortly after my termination about feeling numb. I was worried that I had lost the connection to my baby. And then it all came back, the rawness. Then numbness again for a while. What I am trying to say is that this is just self-defence, the mind protecting itself. And I didn?t go through the agony you are going through. Yes, it was the agony of losing a much-loved baby, and the despair of realising I?ll never see her again, but to add another loss to that, and also the difficulties you?ve had ttc, and the depression, I can?t even begin to imagine. No wonder you are feeling frozen. You might not feel like it, but you are so strong, you might feel like falling apart but your words show a lot of strength, and a lot of courage.

Scrum, I hope you are feeling a bit better? I know what you mean about remembering the day of the scan in so much detail, I actually have the jumper and the trousers I was wearing in a corner of my wardrobe, I haven?t been able to wear them since but couldn?t throw them away. The jumper had a very large collar and I remember very vividly how it was covering my chin as I was laying down and was being scanned. That day was surreal. I know what happened, but all the events seem unsubstantial, I remember my feelings more vividly than the facts. Even now, writing about it, I am getting very emotional.

I hope everyone else is ok ? Allways, Popsy, Fufulina, Lisbeth and all the others, sorry for not mentioning everybody. Much love xxxx

Scrum, I can identify with what you were saying, as I terminated for the same condition, which more likely than not would have been compatible with life. I also refer to mine as my 'lost little boy' and have had the same mixed feelings about the word 'lost'. A small part of me will always wish that I hadn't even had the test, as I'm sure we could have coped with whatever eventuated, and reality would probably not have come close to my fears. However, I realise, given the same choice, I would do the same again. For me, it was a case of not knowing what the future would hold. Not knowing how severley my baby would be affected, physically and mentally. I would read some lovely stories and think "I can do this", and have really positive thoughts on what my baby would bring to our family. Then I would read, or be told of something, really heartbreaking and think I can't risk that happening, for all of us. In the end, the worst case scenarios were the ones that stuck in my mind, and, while a negative way of thinking, were the basis for my decision (I say 'my' decision as DH was just totally at a loss of what to do, and just said he would support any decision I made - which I felt was a bit unfair but anyway..). A million words couldnt describe the whole thought process involved to someone who has not been in the situation, but rightly or wrongly (not that there is any right or wrong in this) I did what I thought was best for us, as you did. Let others that don't know you judge if they may, but don't judge yourself - you did what you did with love in your heart. You have a right to grieve. And I know you're not saying you regret your decision, but it's just so hard isn't it - no one should have to make that decision. Also, if I had not made the choice that I did, Bella would not be here, and that is just unimaginable (I remember Cant saying something along the same lines). Hopefully you'll be saying the same in the not too distant future, with a different name inserted of course (oh, unless you like the name Bella, in which case I wouldn't mind of course - babbling now, better go) xxx

Hello and love to everyone else xxx

Scrum, just dropping by but I just wanted to echo Mishtabel's very wise words. I've actually terminated for T21 twice. (This is incredibly rare, so not to panic you.) I just wanted to say that yes, all those feelings you have are a part of the process to work through. We are all trying to make sense of something incredibly complex and difficult. So have these conversations with yourself but try never to judge yourself. Too exhausting.

I'll sign off now - Mishta has said it all, and so eloquently. Hi to everyone else, new members and familiar faces. x

Hello....having a manic weekend (friends staying) but dashing in to thank coffee, Mish and Shangri-la for their lovely posts. Everyone is very wise and seems to know how to lift people who need it up. Thankyou so much and love to all. Hope you are enjoying the sunshine and Wimbledon and that everyone is doing OK xx

Hi Scrum, glad to see you are having a busy week-end with friends, I hope they will be nice company and a welcome distraction.

I just wanted to very quickly say to you that only last night I started feeling guilty again - it really does come and go. I remembered the days just before the termination, and our conversations with the consultant at our local consultant and the professor who diagnosed Silvia, and I suddenly panicked realising that the consultant seems to have been more pessimistic than the professor (for example, she gave us 3% chances of recurrence, the professor 0.3%, which I think is a significant difference). She was categorical talking about the type of disabilities my baby was very likely to have. The professor was more neutral. So yesterday, remembering all this I had a moment of panic, and thought: Oh my God, what if she exaggerated and it wouldn't have been so bad?

Today I seem to see things more clearly again, and realise that the prognosis was bad no matter what words have been used by different people. And the guilt is not there anymore, or rather it's not so bad. No doubt it will come again. So what I am trying to say, in a very tortuous way, is that I understand now that it will never go away. It's easy to talk about it now, on a good day, but I know how soul destroying it is when it hits. I was surprised to see that even women who terminated because their babies were incompatible with life feel guilty sometimes, for various reasons. I think it's because the decision we took was against all our instincts. Unfortunately the only way we could protect our babies was to release them from what would have been a life of suffering - and there are moments when I still can't believe I took this decision.

Phew, I go on and on once I start, this was meant to be a brief post. I hope everyone is ok - Allways, did you start your IVF on Wednesday? How are you? Monkey, thinking of you too, and also of our resident writer MMT - any more street dance lessons?

COFFEE!!!!! omg congrats! i'm soooooooooooo unbeliveably happy for you! sounds strange but i had weird feeling you wld be pg soon...freaked myself out a bit with that prediction lol, but just take each day as it comes cherish it this time i'm positive that Sylvia would want u too ((hugs))
gina such a beautiful poem, i came across that one when i was looking for a poem for Liams funeral and it still makes me cry
coffee meant to say i know what you mean about the clothes you were wearing on your scan date i was wearing a pair of leggings and an oversized electric blue tunic and it's currently crammed away in a drawer because i don't want to see them so your not alone on that.
Peanut I have nothing intellegent to add just that i'm sending you lots of good thoughts and possitive vibes.
hello also to monkey,lisbeth,mmt,justa,mishta,scrummy,
shangrila,can't,allways and numpty sorry if i've forgotten anyone.
I'm having a crap day myself opened up my e-mails to 'your 31 weeks pregnant!' and burst into tears much to DP's horror but he was very good at consoling me bless him i said to him that it's silly but i never feel like i'll be pg again i just can't conceive of the idea which is perculiar given were ttc, my 2ww finishes next sat but i'm about 99.9% sure i'm not pg so i guess we'll just try again next month but i feel so dis-heartened atm....maybe our new bed will bring us luck
Love and luck and hugs to all XxDMxX

I am struck by what some of you have been saying about guilt, decisions, etc. I terminated for conditions incompatible with life; yet I still feel something akin to guilt - because the loss of the second baby was felt more keenly than the first (it was later; I felt her kick; I gave birth to her); because I can't see myself as and don't want to be someone who did what I have done. Not guilt over the decision, more wishing the decision had never had to be made...
Anyway Peanut, I think you may well find your feelings about this baby have been numbed by fear and ongoing grief for Ben from early on, not to mention coming to terms with the donor situation and your anger over your fertility struggles, hence the current sense of numbness. All this is normal if very messy; it's good to try to say it anyway in a space where people get it.
Scrum, your baby was lost and you do have a right to grieve, as Mishta said... all our decisions were made out of love.

Tracy, you are quiet sweetie, are you okay?

Also wondering how Lisbeth is. Did your IVF start, Allways? how are you doing?

Hi to Monkey, Coffee, Bee, everyone else... and Drama - you will get pregnant. You sound more down than I've heard you in a while - hope you are coping okay. And that the bed is getting some good use.

Hugs to all of you. Oh and Eulalia, if you're ever around, I'd love an update on your family. Ditto Justa, and Tree...

Sorry I haven't sent personal messages to you all but I have been reading.

It's only a week until we had our scan...only a week until our lives were turned upside down. I feel awful...but I hide it. Everyone thinks I'm fine, that I'm over it. I feel rubbish and know that almost everyone has forgotten.

How do I deal with this? How do I pretend I'm ok when in fact I'm reliving the last year over and over in my head? The way my baby girl felt and looked??? ARGGGHH, sorry if none of this makes sense
xx

JulyButterfly, firstly, please don't worry about personals. This thread (although it is so much more than a 'thread'), started by the lovely Busierbee who pops in from time to time but is always watching over everyone, is here to provide support to those who need it when they need it. Maybe one day you'll be up to personals - maybe not - it doesn't matter. Anyway, your post prompted me to read my journal of when I lost my first daughter, to see how I was feeling just prior to her first birthday. It's hard to believe I ever felt/survived such pain. One thing I was reminded of was the day of my daughters first birthday, we were at my in-laws (all of my side of the family lived interstate). We were there for the whole day, with no one mentioning my daughter once. As the day went on, I was getting more and more pissed off about this. Finally at the end of the day, I flatly said "It's Sheridans birthday today". My mil's response still makes me wryly smile and shake my head in amazement. She said "I remembered, but I didn't want to remind you in case you forgot". O.M.G!!! I was lost for words. Anyway, just telling you this just in case it may be the reason no one has mentioned your baby to you - they might honestly think they are protecting your feelings. Perhaps just let those around you know that your baby is still very much in your thoughts, especially at this time. Sometimes we are so good at hiding our feelings, that people think we are 'getting over it' and don't want to make us upset by bringing the conversation up. I'll be thinking of you xx

Coffee, without meaning to sound insensitive, I'm glad to see you realising that you can feel some guilt without letting it consume you. I don't think it is possible for any mother to lose a baby/child in any way and not feel guilt. I know I have, and do, feel guilt for all of my losses, but it doesn't mean that I feel I am guilty. As I've said before, there would have been guilt if you had not made the decision you did too. Guilt - further evidence of your status as a mum. So happy to see you next door xx

Drama, sorry to hear you're feeling down. You know, I have a weird feeling you'll be pg soon too. It certainly sounds like you are putting in the effort. I bet you are such a fun mum xx

Like Cant (hello Cant ), I'm also wondering how Lisbeth is going, and Monkey, and Mmet, Bee, Peanut (no pressure to post though if you ladies aren't feeling up to it). Good to see you having a busy weekend Scrum - lovely weather we had wasn't it? Going to pop in next door - I should really be doing housework, but surely my teenage dd's will want to earn money for something.

Hello and much love to everyone else
xxx

Hello lovely ladies,

Sorry for the radio silence, I've been on a bootcamp in Dorset which is all about army fitness and mind training. It was hilarious - imagine me a 40 year old, post pg, podgy lady lugging 45kg sand bags up hills with ex paras shouting 'you can do it' in your ear.

But I really feel it's time for me to take some time away and work out if I can face 'ttc' again. I don't want to live in the past anymore, but want to concentrate on the future. I will never forget, but I want to try to stop remembering quite so much. Your stories will stay with me forever and I don't think I'll ever get over what I've learnt in here in terms of the strength of human love and hope for life.

You are truly wonderful beings, we've never knowingly met but, it's been like stepping in to a convention of angels in here at times, and who wouldn't benefit from that?

To anyone who's starting the journey, you couldn't be in better hands. There is nothing that can't be said in here. Don't feel you have to know everyone's stories, don't think you have to support anyone but yourself at first. All that will come. As will peace.

With thanks to social networking, and the people who developed diagnostic testing for pregnant women otherwise my pain would just be starting.

Big love out to coffee, cant, mishtbel, peanut, scrum, busierbee, drama, shangrila, julybutterfly, and to everyone else who have helped from just being there. I so hope we meet again on happier threads.

Love xx.