Antenatal support thread for women who have chosen to terminate VI

[Coffeeandchocolate]

Time for a new thread, ladies. May it continue to give us comfort, and help us find a special, sunny place in our hearts, where our babies are safely tucked in. May it bring good luck to everyone who posts or justs reads.

And to the old-timers, it?s so lovely to still have you here with us, reaching out.

Allways, I can't believe anyone would judge you. I also find it hard to accept what happened to your little girls. Rose clearly was very poorly, you did the right thing - and that doesnt make it any the less gutting or unfair. I really hope your IVF works straight away this time. You really deserve some luck - I know we don't believe in measuring and comparing losses, but the double loss after fertility treatment must be very very hard indeed to process. You always sound so dignified and loving.

I can't remember what everyone else said, have been lurking but unable to post properly. Coffee, what you said, though, about maybe never having a little girl, struck a chord with me. I remember Lins, struggling with having lost two little girls, and then having a boy - and finding that hard to come to terms with, and then he was born and it was love at first sight. I had lost two girls and had a girl and it was also love at first sight. You will never replace Silvia, another girl/boy would never do that, but you will have another baby, and you will love him/her. You know that anyway, I know you're just thinking aloud.

The things people have said about being a mother are beautiful. Yes, Coffee, Allways, you are mothers to your little girls. I just want to add an aside: I still find it hard to see myself as a mother. Wrong hair, and I still don't like cleaning the spiders out of the outside toy house. But we are.

OK, feeding time at the zoo here. Hugs to everyone... Lisbeth, how are you doing? And Monkey - did your period come back?

Allways, no need to ever apologise. I am so sorry the discussion with the professor caused all the anger to resurface. Such mixed feeling: on the one hand, the relief of knowing for sure you spared Rose so much suffering. On the other hand, the despair and anger. The overwhelming unfairness of it all.

Of course, no one can tell you why, which is so so hard to accept. I feel the same, I?m still asking myself every day: how could this happen? Both my dh and I are young and healthy, never had a serious health problem and no one in our families has any genetic issue, as far as we know. So I think this question will never be answered. I am convinced there must be a cause, but it hasn?t been found yet.

I so hope the IVF will work for you quickly, and all will be well. When do you have the first round?

Nothing new here... I feel like I can?t find words anymore. I find this whole month very hard, and I?m just trying to get through the days. I get angry without any apparent reason and can also burst into tears quite suddenly. But all in all, I think I?m coping, which is all I can ask for, really.

Cantdo, glad to hear your voice again.
Lots of love to everyone xxxx

Coffee, you know what - it wll be easier once you pass the due date. You just have to get through this bit.

I am convinced there are reasons, connected ones, for my two losses, just the experts havent got enough knowledge yet to know.

But, reasons or not, it is unfair.

I also feel there must have been a reason that Liam was the way he was, i have been trying to do some research into the pill i was on just b4 he was conceived because it had very funny side effects on me and i didn't know then that i was supposed to wait 3 months to get it out of my system we fell pg not even a month after i stopped taking it i had origionaly disgarded the idea but it keeps re-surfacing. My bd'ing time begins today and i should be feeling hopeful and optimistic but i don't i just feel empty like its just not going to happen for me for a while....and thats ok i'm happy to keep going till we get a result it's just that at the moment i feel like it will never happen for me again... i took George to the park earlier and there was a little girl there called Isabella which is what we would have called Liam if he had been a girl and i wanted to scream, i know i have no rights over the name but i associate it with him so strongly everytime she called her it was like she was stabbing me through the heart. Sorry i'm rambling on again, Any thoughts on what i should be taking? @ the mo i'm just doing folic acid and mulivitimins?? i think i'll make an appt with my gp and let her know were trying again see what she reccomends.

Just to say I am lurking terribly - have managed to sneak on to someones Wifi and it's very odd using the computer on our terrace -have agreed with DH to limit our time on it so we don't waste all our evenings together online.

I have nothing to say really - it's very odd being away from home - there is nothing to trigger a crying fit and so I am just frozen. Can't really engage with DD which breaks my heart - esp as she keeps on and on about her baby brother despite ebing told he's not an option anymore.

We had such hope for this baby, since we lost BEn, the heart baby we had pinned all our hopes on donor IVF, for months. For some reason I am feeling his loss much more than this recent baby, maybe because he was from my eggs and naturally conceived. Maybe I'm just working my way through the grief and will eventually move onto the miscarried baby.

We are all mums, Coffee you are a mum to your lost Silvia just as I have 3 children.

Sorry a very disjointed post I know but I want to be here but don't really have the wherewithal to say anything. I should be screaming at the world but feel nothing.

Peanut, your post makes sense actually and it's not disjointed. You are right, this is your path through grief, there are definitely stages you need to go through and no stage can be skipped. I'll be thinking of you, and you know what everyone is saying in here, because it's so true: be gentle with yourself. xxxx

PS: completely off topic, I had a strange dream and you were in it, in a way. I was meeting a very famous writer (can't remember her name though) and someone was saying: "she is actually Peanuthead from Mumsnet"

Oh Peanut
I do feel for you and although my circumstances are not the same, I can relate very much to this feeling of displaced grief.
When I miscarried in September (and it was very early and in no way touches the level of shock and distress that you must feel), I remember feeling such anger and a fresh wave of utter utter loss for the ones whose life I had ended. And this was, for me, the feeling that miscarriage was acceptable and uunderstood and discussed and termination (how I hate that word) is stigmatised and misunderstood and not discussed.
And how can you not be feeling grief and overwhelming frozen - ness? You have endured such great agony Peanut. We are here and we are listening and we do not mind if you rant or if you are grumpy or if you are sad.
Glad you have found a way to reach out.
Your little girl will be okay; she has two parents and having your DH around gives you space to just be numb if you need to.
Dear Peanut. I wish I could give you a big cuddle.
Bee xxx

Oh Peanut. Sad times on these threads tonight. I am so sorry that your heart is breaking also over not engaging with your DD, it must be so hard for you to hear her talking about her baby brother, and knowing that you have lost two boys . I am not able to offer words of comfort - I don't know what could be said to comfort in such a situation; words would not be enough. I just hope and pray that somewhere in this time away there is some healing to be found for your bruised soul, that you will again find joy and love in the times you spend with your DD and OH. I do hope so.

Morning everyone
Cantdo - thanks for asking after me. I'm still stuck in limbo dealing with physical consequences of delivering Adam and tomorrow it'll be 7 weeks. I've had various internal and external infections and been to see the GP every day this week. I've got a sinking feeling that they'll want me to go back into hospital and I know I've got to have a scan to see what's going on internally. I feel ground down, terrified at where this is going to end and angry at the world that I'm having to feel so much pain. I feel like saying but I made the right choice (for us at least) and why am I having to put up with this. I'm also finding I'm unreasonably angry with DH because he doesn't have to put up with this (other than seeing me in pain so it's not like he's got an easy time of it) and just generally stressed to the point where I feel I have no room left in my head for anything else.
I'm worried that because I can't concentrate on the emotional side of losing Adam that it will hit me like a tonne of bricks soon. I don't think there's a lot I can do about it but really I just want to run away as fast as I can from where am I and put as much time as possible between me and this time.
DD has developed a stammer over the last 2 weeks and although we've been told it's not connected to the bereavement it's very worrying. She'll not be able to get words out and will be really upset saying help me mummy I so want to help up by keeping the mood at home cheery but I'm struggling. I called my mum yesterday who lives on the other side of the country adn just said please come and help me I'm struggling so she said she will be here on Saturday for as long as we need.
Coffee - I'm sorry you're having such a horrible time this month and I hope it gets a little easier once the due date passes and that some sort of peace starts to settle. FWIW I agree that we are all mums - I count myself as a mum to 2 but just that I can't have one of them with me.
(Also I thought I should say I am nothing like Lisbeth Salander out of the books - the first time I wanted to post on this board I needed to change my name as some of my family and a couple of friends knew my name and I didn't want them to know it was me posting so I looked at my book shelves and it was one of the first books there. I'm about 5 inches and a couple of stones at least away from being anything like Salander)
Peanut - I hope that the numbness subsides so you can enjoy your DD on holiday - she's got her dad too and probably won't notice the numbness anywhere near as much as you. I wonder if being numb is the brain's way of helping you deal with so much pain - when you hurt yourself physically the body kicks in so you almost can't feel it and I'm wondering if the numbness if like that.
Drama - I'm sorry about the little girl at the park. It must have felt like it being underlined again and again what pain you're going through. I stuipdly took DD to a playgroup the week after coming out of hospital and honestly the first name I heard called was Adam. DH who was with me couldn't believe it and we just sat there looking at each other as if to say 'what sort of horrible joke is this'.
Allways - no judgments in this space. I hope you're ok.

Hello to everyone else and hope you are all well today. x

Oh Lisbeth, what an awful time you are having. Why can?t it be just one thing?! I find myself unable to say anything which would make any difference, I can only send you a big virtual hug.

I hope they find the reason why your physical recovery takes so long and are able to cure whatever it is. You are right, you cannot focus on your emotions while you are in so much pain physically, but I think that somehow, at an unconscious level, your mind is processing what happened. As everyone is saying in here, it is not a linear process and the waves will come and go.

I can only imagine how powerless you feel because you can?t help your daugher with her stammer.Maybe someone who has/had toddlers will be able to offer some advice. What I will say might not make any sense, as I have no experience of this whatsoever, but if she has had no problems speaking until 2 weeks ago, maybe it means that the stammer is the result of something which affected her emotionally and when this goes away she will be able to speak properly again. I can see why you find it hard to believe it is not connected with losing Adam. However, please don?t blame yourself, as I?m sure that if she is such a sensitive child, she would have felt that something is not right no matter what.

Both you and your dh are grieving, but in such different ways. It is normal to feel this anger, and it?s so good you acknowledge it for what it is. I hope that having your mum with you will help. Just hang in there until then. Much love xxxx

Peanut,

I'm so glad you're managing to get on this thread whilst you're away. I was worried about you being disconnected for it for a month when you've got so much to deal with.

Lisbeth, for me, the grief didn't start until after all the practical and physical stuff had been wrapped up, and it wasn't like a tonne of bricks, it was slow and gradual and quite beautiful in a way because it's an amazing thing to create life and it needs to be respected and honoured. So don't worry, just get physically fit.

Which brings me on to Coffee, I can't quite cope with your thought of are we all mothers?, we are of course but it does feel a strange concept, as my step f-i-l put it, 'you were expecting a baby but got a termination'. Quite. I felt that myself and my lovely bloke were definitely parents and that seemed easier to accept and deal with. That's an undeniable fact in the history of the world, and I think it's amazing, I'm in awe of my body for having a go.

Still struggling a bit with the step kids. Hard to have other people's children whilst dealing with this. I'm angry that they're so ungrateful for everything - but I know that's not rational, they're just kids, this is nothing to do with them. Still - that's the struggle.

Got to go to lunch today with a friend with three kids - one months old that I've been avoiding. Please don't let her bring the baby.

On a lighter note, I skived off my writing group on Tuesday because one of the women is pregnant and I hadn't seen her and I couldn't bear to be false and went to a Streetdance Class instead with other half. That was brilliant, can't tell you how great it was not doing the 'right' thing, and doing something totally ridiculous instead. Highly recommended.

love to all xx.

Hi MMT, I was actually wondering if you were around. Just wanted to say that I was also in awe of my body and what it could do, despite the awful circumstances around Silvia's stillbirth I still felt empowered somehow.

I see that my questioning my status as mum made you all react... and yes, I think you are right, we'll always be mums to our children, even if they are here with us or not. It's just more difficult to see it when you lost your first child, as the practical, day to day aspects of parenting have been denied to you.

Yes, the kids have a right to be ungrateful, and it's good they take things for granted and don't know yet about how fragile everything is, but I can see how this is upsetting sometimes. Talk about things not being black and white...

Do you mind me asking what you are writing? Don't feel like you have to reply, I'm just being nosy.

I hope you will enjoy your lunch. I remember what Cantdo was saying a while ago, that seeing babies was not as difficult, as they are so obviously someone else's children. I am not sure this is true for me, I haven't been exposed to many babies since losing Silvia, but seeing a little one in a pram fills me with so much longing. However, I hope it is true for you and even if your friend brings her baby you will be ok (-ish).

Hello Everyone

Gosh its seems like it has been a bit of a day or so for everyone and sending out lots of love. I have been lurking for a while as i'm kind of in a weird state right now. I think it was Coffee who may have said something to the effect that she can't find words anymore. And I am feeling very much like that right now. I have intended to post many times over the last few days but find myself paralysed and just incapable of articulating what I feel anymore, having spent the first six weeks after my termination talking and writing about it both here and in journals. I'm finding that I am in a kind of strange limbo land of almost paralysis where I just can't make any decisions about a. what kind of IVF we will do (genetic testing vs usual), b. when we start it - to the everyday - what kind of bananas, whether to go to playgroup or not etc etc. Maybe its because we had to make such monumental decisions recently that everything seems so much more 'loaded' than before. Does that make any sense?? Hopefully I am not sounding too loony.

Proper personal messages next time but just wanted to say that I have been thinking about you all and especially Peanut and more recently Allways after her heartfelt post. But all of us really. It is such a wrong place for us all to be and it makes me so sad to think how much collective pain there is on these pages and how whilst no-one would ever deserve this, how much you all don't deserve this. But I shall be lifted this evening by thinking of mmetracyt of street dancing instead of meeting friends with babies. It does sound joyous, and we could all do with a bit of that couldn't we?

Sneaked on...

Lisbeth, I do think worrying aboutthe physical side of things is a part of grief. Iv'e sufered from depression for years and one of my signals is I start obsessing about my health. Now I know you have good reason to be focusing on your body but I don't think it distracts from the grief - the physical and emotional are so tied up. But I do understand that you want to focus on your lost baby not what's going on with your womb. But there will be so much time for that.

Coffee - laughed out loud and shocked DD - yes I am actually very famous indeed....

Re pregnant ladies and babies, I cannot escape them. EVery single one of my friends in RL either has had a baby recently or is pg. I don't actually know who I'm going to socialise with - or DD for that matter - when Ig et back as not sure I can face it. Every toddler group I take DD to, every bloody music group, even swimming is stuffed with them.

For 2 years I struggled to be one of them and finally I had made it - proud bump. NOw it feels just like I'm back to where I've always been - on the outside looking at other people's easy pregnanies/babies and not allowed to be there myself.

In fact that's maybe why my grief is so stilted- none of this is new - had the grief of infertility for years then the grief of losing Ben now I'm back to living with that grief again. This time there seems to be no escape in getting pregnant again though as not sure how I'm able.

Scrum - I would say it's very early days to consider IVF again - we only waited 3 cycles for our donor cycle and it just wasn't long enough for me to recover emotionally or physically - 2 lots of severe morning sickness in 6 months - yuk.

P{lus part of me feels I should have waited til after Ben's due date to try again and that maybe my body wasn't ready to carry again and that's why I lost Alex. Not very scientific but somehow feels logical. I'm old 41 and I forced a pregancy onto my body.

Thanks for all the kind thoughts ladies. It's wonderful ebing here but in a way would be better to be at home and have to deal with everything. Mind you DD is making sure to point out every single lady with a baby in her tummy in case I might have missed them.

Hello all,

Coffee I'm writing nothing much at the moment, I'm waiting on notes from the producer who I've been working for, but the thing I skived off is a writing group, where you all sit around, listening to each other's work thinking: is it better than mine?, do they have more chance than me of being pubished? and then try to come up with things to improve their work without being critical. It's torture but an essential tool to improving your writing people say. Sounds it, doesn't it?

I'm always here by the way, I have the thread open as a window all day when i'm working, when I stop doing that I'll make sure I say so, but until then I'm here, listening.

xx

Hi. Only just found this thread and am glad I have somewhere I can 'talk' without being judged.

We chose to terminate our 22 week old DD last July after discovering, at our 20 week scan, that she was 'incompatible with life'. She may have survived pregnancy but wouldn't have lived more than an hour or two, if that. We have 2 other children and needed to take them into consideration when making our decision to terminate. Even now I have days of wishing we'd waited, let her be born and spend an hour with her alive instead of delivering her already sleeping.

Her 'birthday' is coming up and I can sense that sinking feeling approaching. Nobody seems to understand that the build up to significant dates is as hard as the actual date - if not harder.

Hello all, have to pick kids up shortly, so must be quick, but just wanted to welcome you Julybutterfly (lovely fitting name you have chosen). I'm so sorry for the loss of you little girl. I agree, the lead-up to the anniversary is often harder than the day itself. I terminated a pregnancy in 2008, following a diagnosis of T21, and came to this thread last year when i was waiting on CVS results of my now almost 5 month daughter, which were all normal. The support I received was wonderful. I also have an anniversary coming up in July, for my first daughter whose death was put down to SIDS 17(!) years ago. The first anniversary, that whole first year, is always the worst, but we'll be here to hold your hand. Glad you have found this thread xx

Just quickly, Peanut, glad you are managing to post when you need to. Thinking of you xx

And Scrum, was wondering how you were getting on. Good to hear from you - don't worry about personals. Sometimes it's hard to gather your own thoughts, let alone respond to others xx

Love to all xxx

PS : Mmet, hope your lunch with your friend was okay. Love the streetdancing thingy - sounds like fun xx

Hello all, have to pick kids up shortly, so must be quick, but just wanted to welcome you Julybutterfly (lovely fitting name you have chosen). I'm so sorry for the loss of you little girl. I agree, the lead-up to the anniversary is often harder than the day itself. I terminated a pregnancy in 2008, following a diagnosis of T21, and came to this thread last year when i was waiting on CVS results of my now almost 5 month daughter, which were all normal. The support I received was wonderful. I also have an anniversary coming up in July, for my first daughter whose death was put down to SIDS 17(!) years ago. The first anniversary, that whole first year, is always the worst, but we'll be here to hold your hand. Glad you have found this thread xx

Just quickly, Peanut, glad you are managing to post when you need to. Thinking of you xx

And Scrum, was wondering how you were getting on. Good to hear from you - don't worry about personals. Sometimes it's hard to gather your own thoughts, let alone respond to others xx

Love to all xxx

PS : Mmet, hope your lunch with your friend was okay. Love the streetdancing thingy - sounds like fun xx

Sorry about the repeating thing

Morning everyone and welcome to Julybutterfly - I'm aorry you have had to find this thread and sorry for the loss of your daughter. I'm sorry to hear about the sinking feeling as July approaches
I'm off to the Drs again as more problems have arisen overnight (more cysts externally) and I'm starting to feel a bit cursed frankly.
Hope everyone else is well x

Hello Julybutterfly.

Hello Mishtabel, hope you're ok. I agree with you, to anyone who's really struggling don't worry about personals, just post what you feel, personals can come when you're stronger.

Hi Lisbeth. Your body's been through so much, good luck at the Drs.

xx

No time to post but wanted to say welcome to Julybutterfly and I am so sorry to hear about your loss almost a year ago.

I have had 2 terminations, for (different) fatal conditions, the most recent just over a year ago. I think the anticipation of the anniversary is worse than the reality in the end, if it helps.

MmeTracy, streetdancing sounds like a good call. You have a very original voice, I think - can imagine you writing.

Scrum, sorry you are having a bad time at the mo. I found myself talked out at times too. You want so much to talk but it's never entirely enough.

Peanut, hope you are as okay as you can be. Am SURE you didnt cause this by starting IVF early. Please don't blame yourself.

Hi Coffee. Nearly there... at your due date... passing that is a milestone, and see also what I said above to Julybutterfly. About the baby/bump jealousy, maybe I was less jealous of babies because I already had DD1 and thus could see differences between her and other people's babies that made them seem irrelevant to my loss? Whereas a bump is a bump is a bump... I don't know though. Hits us all differently, I guess.

Sad time on these two threads at the moment...

Hello to Julybutterfly. The build up to a significant date is awful and agree that many around you won't understand. Here is different. I found the build up to my due date awful, the day its self passed without too much added pain, but the weekend before I was a total wreck and barely able to get through an hour without tears. My body also ached, in a flu like way too. I was totally unprepared for the physical side to grief. Are you planning on marking the day in away?

Coffee, I'm also thinking you too, I know what the next few days holds for you. The build up / the thinking what if / the having to get on with day to day trivialities, when your world has been shattered is exhausting. Please be gentle on yourself and take the coming days one at a time, don't expect too much from yourself and at the end of each day, remember how far you've come and how strong you are.

Lisbeth, I DO hope the DR is able to help you out. You're having an awful time and this stalling of your physical recovery is awful to go through as well as your loss and frankly more than anyone should go through.

Hello to everyone else.

Hello Ladies, Just to say that I have been lurking but am in a strange/funny place at the moment and finding it hard to express it.

Coffee I share the 23rd with you as it was Olivia's due date also. I hope that the build up to the date is not too painful for you, I will be thinking of you. Be gentle with yourself. Much Love xxx

julybutterfly Hello. I am sorry to hear about your little girl.

Lisbeth I hope the Doctor can help you, having to cope with the physical issues as well as the emotional must be so difficult.

Hello to everyone else. I am sorry that I do not have the words of wisdom that most of the other ladies have on here, I don't find it easy to express myself as well as you all, but am thinking of you all never the less. xxxxxx

Welcome Julybutterfly (I agree with Mishta, what a lovely nickname!). And so sorry about your loss. I also lost a baby girl in February this year, at 22 weeks. We decided to let her go because she had brain abnormalities and we were given a very poor prognosis. Your post struck me because yesterday was a day when guilt came back for me too. You see, my baby?s condition was not incompatible with life, it ?just ?meant no quality of life, and I sometimes wonder as well if we should not have continued with the pregnancy, or at least have further tests after 22 weeks, despite what the doctors said. And then I read your post, and realised that even if there was incompatibility with life, guilt is always present every now and then, on our bad days. I think we can only learn to accept it, and learn that the bad days pass.

It is heartbreaking to deliver your baby stillborn. But if your poor baby was so ill, maybe she would have suffered if you went to term, and maybe guilt then would have been much worse than it is now. I don?t know what her condition was and I am no medic, and I know there are women who choose not to terminate the pregnancy. There is no right or wrong, it is hearbreaking whatever the decision and no one has the right to judge, as each case is so different. But try to hang on to the thought that you acted out of love for your baby, and only tried to spare her pain and distress.

Peanut, I completely agree that losing Alex had nothing to do with the timing of the pregnancy. If your body wasn?t ready, I don?t think you could have got pregnant in the first place. Keep on posting if it helps you.

Lisbeth, I am gutted reading what you have to go through. Do they know what it is and how to treat it? I hope your appointment today brought you a little bit of reassurance, let us know how you are. I hope your mum coming tomorrow will give you the chance to take it a bit easier.

Allways, I am actually ok-ish today, although I feel very strange, like I am half living in the world which could have been. Generally, it feels like a weight in my whole body.

Gina, good to hear from you. Come in here next Wednesday, if you feel like it, and we will remember our babies together. I hope you?re feeling well? Is it going ok with the trial you?re in?

Gosh, I really have to go now, what a long post! Much love to you all lovely ladies xxxx