Antenatal support thread for women who have chosen to terminate VI

[Coffeeandchocolate]

Time for a new thread, ladies. May it continue to give us comfort, and help us find a special, sunny place in our hearts, where our babies are safely tucked in. May it bring good luck to everyone who posts or justs reads.

And to the old-timers, it?s so lovely to still have you here with us, reaching out.

Peanut, read your story with horror and wonder, I don't know how you can cope, can only point with respect to the women on here who have got through similar experiences somehow. Much love mme xx

Oh Peanut I am not surprised at all that you have been howling and have thought you were going mad and have been scared by your emotions. Whilst it will become bearable over time as you learn to live alongside what has happened it must seem unbearable at the moment. Of course it does. It should be. People shouldn't have to go through what you have, they just shouldn't and I'm so very very sorry. I (quick back story as you mentioned you hadn't read this thread - I have a lovely DS nearly 2 and a half, but because of my age started trying when he was 6 months, had emergency surgery - tube removal - with ectopic pregnancy after a year in October last year and a termination for tisomy 21 five weeks ago and was my 40th last week) both can and can't imagine what things are like for you at the moment and so hope that you are wrapped up in a cocoon by your family and your partner and that you let them. I have been reading a lot about sorrow and loss recently and one thing that sticks in my mind is a quote from Emerson that says simply "sorrow makes us all children again", which is true in the sense that you never feel injustice and outrage and despair as much as when you were a child. And like a child you need looking after and feeding and protecting right now. Much love to you.

Well, feel a bit odd adding my stuff to the post as its really nothing compared but I suppose this is the nature of the thread, that we can put down whatever is on our mind. I've had a funny old day in that we went for more IVF meetings and have come away feeling - well not really sure about anything. I think that even though we have had such rotten luck and I am now 40, deep down I always thought things would work out and we would have a second longed for child but the reality really hit home today that maybe this is it and its a bit overwhelming. Nothing said today has changed from our previous appointments but I think the statistics resonated more and the feeling that we are in "last chance saloon" hit home. Suddenly we are nearly 2 years on from trying for "this" baby and we don't have much time left. I was also so struck by something coffee said about becoming a fearful person, convinced things will get worse. I AM that person now and am terrified to take a step forward in case we end up back in the same place but terrified of not taking a step forward in case we end up in the same place if you see what I mean. I am also so tired of trying to have another baby. I know that our 2 year path is shorter than many and we are lucky to have our beautiful son but I am so nostalgic for the (maybe talking myself up a bit here but not too much ; ) fun, energetic, optimistic, adventerous person I used to be. Instead I feel brittle, fragile, moody, prickly and just not the kind of person you'd like to sit next to at a dinner party. And I really used to be. Anyway, that's me. Love to all of you.

PS Mishtabel; I read your "shitty" blog and VERY jealous of both your new home to be and your cheekbones and of course the beautiful beautiful Bella x

The fearful person I've become, convinced that things will get worse, even if so far this horrible episode of my life seems to have been a one-off, I've had a blessed life so far. But better days have to come, eventually...isn't it?

ooh funny bit at end was me cutting and pasting Coffee's eloquent words so I quoted them correctly! x

Thanks everyone for kind words... as usual not enough time to reply properly, tea to get and holiday to pack for but wanted to say to Scrum that sounds like our position is similar. We've been having fertility treatment since DD was 8 months, she's now 2 and 8 months. And having made the decision to have an egg donor as I was told my eggs were too old I assumed that would be it but now it seems there's another hurdle. I'm 41, 42 soon. And as we are going to use a donor I suppose we have time. But I too have become a frightened person. We've lost our friends and our fun over the lsat year and I wonder if our marriage will survive this latest blow. I feel like even if I do get pregnany again that baby will be taken again. And I can't stop at one, it's heartbreaking. I thought our bad luck was over but now I'm wondering how much more there is round the corner.

Can't, I willl try again. I will at least try one more pregnancy. Though not sure where the money to pay for it will come from as the last lot was a gift from family and we have nothing left to mortgage. And I was deeply affected by my mother's obsession to have a family. But I've been thinking alot about that and I wouldn't swap that for not having my adoptive bro and sis; once they arrived all our lives were complete. So if I can say as a child that it was worth it then we can rest easier...

Anyway hope I will have time to post again before we go away for a month.

Hello all. I've been lurking but not able to post for 3 weeks or so. I'm finding I can't retain any information and that my brain seems to be made of complete mush.

I'm wondering if anyone has experienced what I'm going through at the moment? I thought my bleeding after the delivery on 30 April had ended but it started up again on 27 May (I think it was the start of my period and my GP agrees). But it's been going on and on since then. The GP says my womb and surrounding areas are inflammed hence the bleeding and the pain. She's put me on antibiotics which I started taking yesterday. I've found on the internet that they should take 2-3 days to work. I'm feeling so low, depressed and isolated at the moment because of this. I cannot believe that 6 weeks on I am still dealing with the physical consequences of this. Also, just after DS was born I passed several clots and for a short while was convinced I was going to die. Has anyone else had to take antibiotics after delivery? Did they work? Any idea if this will be the end of it?

I feel like all my grieving I need to do for DS - ah, bloody hell I've been calling him DS in all my posts in case someone I know was able to identify me but I can't keep not giving him his name, his name is Adam - I feel like all the grieving I need to do for my little boy Adam keeps getting put back as I keep getting to anxious and upset about bleeding and being in pain. I am so sick of it and so sick of feeling it will never end. I have never felt so vulnerable and so breakable. Everything just seems so delicate and transient. Nothing feels like it's going to last and nothing anyone in RL says seems to help.

I'm sorry I still can't offer any real words of comfort or advice to anyone else - I had thought I'd be of more use by now But love to you all

Scrum, I am glad you found some of my words eloquent, although unfortunately the only way in which these particular words help is just to show our feelings at this time are so ?normal? and so ?common?. I am so sorry to read about what you?re going through ? somehow the recurrent theme in here in these last few days seems to be hope and the need to hope. The urge to hope I would say.

Peanut, you do sound different. Your childhood experience, I feel, is a very valid argument in favour of trying again, the impact of your mother?s obsession less powerful than the joy of having your brother and sister. I am glad you found this way of looking at things. I hope the month away will help and will bring some lightness. I hope you will enjoy the time with your dd and dh and find new strenghts within yourself. I?ve said this before, but the resilience of the human spirit doesn?t cease to amaze me.

I feel myself going down again. And to be honest I am a bit ashamed. So many of you ladies in here have been through so much more than me. Yes, while the grief of losing a baby is the same for all of us, many of the women in here had this thrown at them on top of other problems, mostly difficulties conceiving, or decreased fertility due to age. The most unlucky had this happen to them more than once. And I am trying to remember that I am still young, only 30 this year and that I conceived very easily the first time round, so I have reasons to be hopeful. But lately the image of my baby has haunted me. I remember very well how tiny she was, how innocent, and the immense, breathtaking love which has entered my life the moment I held her. I just miss her so much. I need her. What really gets to me is not so much the image of other babies, but hearing them cry. I have never heard my baby cry. I have never comforted her. The life contained in that cry reminds me of the terrible silence which followed Silvia?s birth.

I could not look at her photos again. I did it a couple of months ago and it floored me, although I needed to see them. I haven?t been able to look at them since. I am afraid of them. At the same time I start to feel guilty for not looking at them. But this kind of obsession with the way she looked like is relatively new. Most of the times, when I remember her I just remember her movements. I feel them again.

Hard to explain, but I feel like I have all this love inside me, and this love is just for her, but she?s gone. These past few days, this love has been suffocating me. On the good days, I can find channels for it.
And I also feel guilty for admitting it, but I?ve just started to wonder: what if I never have a girl? I feel like slapping myself when this thought comes up, of course all I want is a healthy baby, but I just can?t help imagining a baby girl in my arms, breathing and crying. Of course I am jumping the gun, and I am upset with myself.

Cross posted with you Lisbeth. I didn't have to take antibiotics, but I did bleed for ages, on and off, probably about 8 weeks. I have to dash now, but just wanted to send you a big hug.

I'm glad you can come back here and talk to us, it helps. Much love xxxx

thank you Coffee - it is hugely appreciated xx

Lisbeth I stopped bleeding completely quite quickly after a week or so but then started again after another couple of weeks quite heavily and it wasn't a period and I freaked out a bit too - i think bleeding on and off must be totally normal. But I did take antibiotics too. ANd I know what you mean re the fear being distracting, but fear is part of grief so fear of the bleeding is healing even though it feels misplaced. I am terrified of everything currently, on teh verge of panic attacks constantly and I think it is a noraml responss.

Peanut - bless you for responding to me. I'm so sorry for what has happened to you and your two boys. I am so sorry you are feeling terrified too. I'm sure you're right it's a normal response - it's just scary. I doubt it helps hugely but my thoughts are with you

Coffee, your words echo so much my feelings when I lost my first daughter. I think I've said it before, but it's hard being a mum without your child. All that love with seemingly no where to go. The just wanting them, even though you know you can't. The guilt at being desperate to have another girl. All such normal feelings Coffee, hang tight, you will get there. And of course the fact that you're young, conceived easily and have 'only' had the one loss, may give you more reason to be hopeful for the future, but it doesn't lessen your pain of not having Silvia. Be patient with yourself, there will be up days again, as you know. And there will be down days again. Just go with your feelings and trust in yourself that you will get there eventually xx

Lisbeth, nice to hear from you, though sorry to hear about your ongoing problems. I haven't had any experience of this myself, but hopefully the antibiotics will do the trick and you can get on with grieving for Adam. I know this isn't the same, but I had exams a few weeks after my termination for my little boy (which I tried to defer), and although I did grieve in this time, I felt like I was putting the real grieving off until after, which was really hard. It is a relief when you feel you can finally give your full attention, so to speak, to the grief. Please don't feel bad for not being able to offer support to others at the moment - sometimes just reading your words can help to support others when their feelings resonate with yours and they don't feel so alone (or like they're going mad). Take care xx

Peanut, 'thinking of you' seems so lame, but I am. I hope you're able to relax and recharge a bit on your holiday. Sending you love and strength xx

Scrum, I think that fear you and Coffee described is quite common and normal after the experiences you've had. I think its hard to believe, or to allow yourself to hope, that things might just turn out, after having had the rug pulled out from beneath you in such a traumatic way. But they can, and they do. Thanks for dropping into my shitty blog and for your compliments xx

Better go and spend some time with DH who is, for once, home on a weeknight (and here I am on MN). I have to get to sleep before he starts snoring

Love to all xxx

Mishta, I am at work but on the verge of tears reading your words: a mum without her child. Am I a mum? I would have been in 2 weeks' time. I don't know what I am anymore. Not a mum, but at the same time I had a baby and I have a mother's love for her.

Scrum, I forgot to say earlier today: you said you read a lot about loss and sorrow. When I had just joined this thread Justa was mentioning in here a few lines from one poem by Kahlil Gibran - On Joy and Sorrow. At the time, those words didn't mean much to me, I was too raw. But a few weeks later, I realised they were resonating in my mind so I found the poem (it's all over the internet actually) and reading it brought me so much comfort, and put everything into a very wise and gentle perspective

Sorry but have to say I had a good laugh at Scrum and Mishta's shitty blog comment! It was obvious what Scrum meant to say but it just came out so funny.
Mishta, I am loving your blog because I'm nosy too.

No time for deep thoughts tonight. Just agree that fear is normal, panic too, and changing is as well. How could anyone not change as a result of what has happened to us all?

Somewhere down the line, what has happened may make us better people. I think it has made me a better mother in many ways. It has not, however, made me a better person - I have been jealous, bitter, introverted, and that is not me either, so I know what you all mean.

Big hugs to you all.

Just a quick message to Lisbeth - this sounds like exactly what I had after my medical termination - I bled for about 4 weeks then had a couple of days off before it started again and didn't seem to want to stop. They put me on antibiotics too and it stopped very quickly, and things went back to normal. Give it a few days but go back to the Dr if you're still not happy. Love to all. xx

Hello Everyone

Lisbeth, sorry have no experience but do know what it is like to be worried about things not being 'normal' as I have the opposite problem. I hardly bled at all aside from a few hours after the medical termination and nearly 6 weeks still have a very very small amount of pregnancy hormone in my blood and no proper period and no ovulation (having scans and bloods for IVF which is why I know this) which is freaking me out in case it takes forever to get back to normal and in case there is still some 'matter' there which is preventing my body from moving on. I hope that you get reassurance from your Dr and that you can stop worrying about that aspect of it all soon. Its stupid as of course I know that I WAS pregnant but in the dream like state that has followed since, to find out that my body still thinks I a little pregnant has been really upsetting and contributed to a crap week. But this afternoon on a glorious winters day here in Sydney, I had Swallows and Amazons type afternoon with my DS at our local bay beach (which we had to ourselves as down here Australians seem not to venture out below 16 C)and it made me think that if this is as good as it gets then I'm doing OK (and as I write this I am very aware that some of you don't yet have children so don't mean to be insensitive - hope I'm not). AND I had a playdate with a newish friend who has SEVEN (yes you read that right) children without feeling tooooooo envious so ending the week definately better than it started. But I am finding this is such a snakes and ladders type process so will probably slide back down next week.

Coffee, I feel the same as you sometimes in terms of feeling that my problems and grief aren't as bad as some on this thread (I have a son, my pregnancy ended much earlier at 13 weeks, it was under anaesthetic etc etc) but you shouldn't feel like you have to 'rank' your experience, really you shouldn't. It is real and very awful and I think everyone here understands that everyone is in their own private hell even though some are - on paper - more hellish. So please don't feel like you have to caveat or censor your thoughts.

Can't, I am glad I made you smile. As I said, every little smile helps at the moment (where are you Dramamama, you always make me smile) and I hope you are doing OK. I am totally there with you on how this experience changes you. I certainly have more empathy and I am much slower to get irritated with the general ebb and flow of toddler life, BUT truth be told I would swap my new found empathy for a baby in a heartbeat. I may have written this here before but I don't really want this experience to be the making of me, I just want to make a healthy baby. Good luck if you are about to start your next IVF cycle. Mine is delayed due to my f*ed up bloods/uterus but we are also doing all the appointments we need to do genetic testing. Not sure if its the same in the UK but we can essentially not commit (financially) until we know how many blastocyts we get. I think if we are in the fortunate position of getting several (which I don't think we will as my anti-mulurian(sp?) are low - more crap news) we may say sod it and re-mortgage- here its three times more expensive than regular IVF - but we are fortunate that we have quite a lot of money in our house (but not much slash any in our bank account!) and do the testing. Anyway, GOOD luck on that daunting journey.

Peanut. I hope you are having a lovely holiday. I know I have just written that there shouldn't be a heirarchy of loss and suffering but there are really no adequate words for your experience. I really think the best I can do is acknowledge that and hope that your focus and dedication to extending your family will lift you up and carry your forward. I really do feel though that the universe is stretching its expectations of what a single person can endure so I hope and pray that it owes you hugely and you will ultimately have your happy ending, whatever shape or form that may take.

Mishtabel, keep writing your shitty blog. Your words to Coffee were properly beautiful and very very true; you have a gift with words.

And to everyone else who maybe reading, I hope this weekend gives you pockets of 'lightness' and that the depths of darkness gradually, gradually get shallower.

Lots of love

I simply cannot add to the wonderful words, sentiments and levels of support posted on here in the past few days. There is also so much pain, grief, reasons to be angry shout and wail. Your enduring strength, though you may not feel it, gives me strength too.

What I will say is that you're all very wonderful women, who deserve so much more than this sadness and I think of you all often. I'm especially thinking of Peanut and her dear sons. Knowing I can come here and share my daughters memories and my emotions, puts you all in my affections.

We are all Mums.

A x

Little calling out to Brightonlady;
you still reading love?
Me coming to near your land tomorrow.
Shall we meet up?
kisses
Bee
xxx

We're off in the morning, 3 day drive across Europe with 2 yr old dd, not looking forward to it as think all 3 of us are liable to meltdowns. I was supposed to fly out and meet DH on monday but DD was exposed to chicken pox the weekend I lost the baby and if she came down with it and I got stranded away from DH and my hols think it would finish me off. The timing is exactly right.

We won't have internet accesss, maybe the odd time in a cafe, and I'm worried about not having my support network of internet and friends just DH - it's a lot for him to bear.

Really struggling, thanks so much for all your kind words. Had a meltdown in the local playgroup this morning when DD had a tantrum about leaving and I ended up sobbing with the entire room looking at me. And DD screaming ever louder as I sobbed.

My anxiety is through the roof, anxious about going on this holiday we've been planning for months. It should have been our 20 week scan today - I was so excited about finding out the gender this time. Having said that it's actually possible that this last baby, Alex, had anomolies and that was why I mc ed but I'm pretty sure he was perfect.

Anyway I so hope that when we get back in a month the rawness might have gone, I might be able to see some light, to have some days like Scrum's swallows and amazons day, to feel like we might be allowed another baby some time.

But also what makes me sad is when I get back how many new women will have joined this thread? How many more awful scans, awful decisions, how much more pain?

See you all in a month - hoping forsome light. XX

Hi everyone,
Would have liked to caught Peanut before she went to wish her well, but I'm a bit late I should think. I'm sure she knows we'll all be thinking of her though.

Coffee, I've been meaning to get back to you, but wanted to wait til I had time to respond properly. That you doubt your status as a mum brought tears to my eyes, though I know I once struggled with this myself. Allways (waves to Allways) is so right, we are all mums here, though some are without their child/children. I unsuccessfully tried to find a poem that I read ages ago about being a mother without a child. In my search I came across a very touching article written by a woman who had lost her baby in pregnancy, which describes it well (google 'Mother without child' by Robyn Wallace if you're interested - not an article for those already pregnant though, as, if you are like me, would only give you something else to worry about). Silvia will always be your daughter, a part of your family, and you'll always be Silvia's mum. The love you decribed when Silvia was born is undoubtedly the love of a mum. That you didn't get to do any of the usual mummy stuff is part of what makes this all so hard. Are you a crafty person at all? Perhaps, as a way to channel your love for Silvia, you could do something in her memory, such as a painting/tapestry/decorate a box for her momentos. I know doing things like this helped me by making me feel I was still 'mothering' Sheridan in some way. Anyway, hoping that the sun is shining for you today xx

Speaking of which, Scrum, the sun may have been shining yesterday, but it was cold , as was today. So glad you had a good day though. Thanks again for your kind words - I will keep adding to my shitty blog, though can't promise it will be very interesting. Nothing happening with house atm, waiting on council, so I will most likely just add a pic or two here and there of other stuff. I'm glad you drop in though, and also you Cant, I am nosey too and wish you all had blogs so I could get snippets of your life (its easy, all you have to do is go to blogspot.com, can remain as anonymous as you like - any takers??)

Must go, love to all xxx

Thank you Mishta, as always you find such comforting words. It seems that this whole month is difficult, the closer I get to my due date (23 June), the more fragile I feel. I know that the build-up to it must be worse than the day itself, but I just wish June was over and done with as quickly as possible. I actually started to struggle more and more when seeing bumps. It has always been difficult, but it?s been getting worse lately. It must be because the life which could have been, and which I wanted so much, is weighing on me.

The good thing is that work is very busy and I am distracted, the last thing I needed now is more time to think about it all. I feel like I?ve done all my thinking and now I just need to find practical ways of dealing with it all.

It?s been so comforting to read your (and Allways?) words about being a mum. Yes, you are both right, and I did google that blog. The author was spot on about not being able to always mention your baby in day-to-day conversations, as it feels inappropriate and also very personal, but at the same time wanting to talk about it, as a way of acknowledging that you did have a child. The ambivalence of it all.

I hope everyone had a nice week-end. Another week starting soon? and Scrum, wow, well done for dealing so well with the playdate.

Oh, and before I go: I must be the last person on this thread who has just found out who Lisbeth Salander is (the character, not our Lisbeth in here)

Here?s to a good week for everybody xxxx

Hello ladies! have just been catching up as i haven't even been lurking this week i feel like i haven't stopped! my birthday was lovely thank-you for all the birthday wishs, bet u can all guess what i wished for when i blew my candles out i got taken out for dinner and spoilt rotten by DP and had a throughly brilliant day and got extreamly a bit drunk tee hee.
But i'm on a clean kick now no drinkies for me because i will be bd'ing from weds till sun so keep your fingers x'ed for me, we took DS swimming today...btw i hate refering to him as that so from now on i will be refering to him by name, we took George swimming today and saw a couple with their baby boy who was 3 months and DP turned to me with a silly grin on his face and said 'i really want another one' i felt so relieved he said it cause i was begining to feel it was all me i needed him to say that.
My best friend this week told me she was pg with her 4th but i feel happy for her she had a mc not long after my termination so i can't feel jealous or angry...i actually think she's very very brave don't think i could handle 4! lol.
Anyway i'm off to bed now but i shall make more of an effort to do personals next time just wanted to check in love to you all especially peanut sending u big ((hugs)) xxxxxxx

Hello all. Apols in advance for a very self indulgent post.

Just had a phone call from the Prof we were under during my pregnancy and termination. He had contacted the pathology dept who carried out the pm, to see if they had any further findings. They don't and he is now able to write to us and our gp with the final report. We discussed the issues around Rose's brain again and he also mentioned the issues found with her lungs during the pm. Her lungs were not mentioned at our meeting with him in May. He said and I'm quoting ' in the centre of both lungs, irregular cysts like spaces, surrounded by swollen tissue were found.' It seems Rose was indeed a very poorly little girl and we did make the right decision. I'm now left aching for my perfect baby. She is so beautiful and pretty and perfect, but her brain and lungs are not. Where did my perfect baby go? How could one little baby suffer so much damage. Why did have to happen, WHY?? This isn?t how it should have been. I?m so angry and hurt right now. I want my baby, I want her to be as perfect inside as she is outside.

I know you can?t answer the questions why, I just needed to ask, say and saying them here is the only safe place I have to ask. I hope you won?t judge.

No judgements here, Allways. For me, Iola's situation was always down to something that happened at the moment of conception and as such there was inevitability about what happened. To not have an answer for why this happened to Rose must make it so much harder, to think that perhaps things could have been otherwise, for Rose and for Lilly. It makes it so much more unfair - and I think anger is a natural reaction.

At least you have confirmation that she was indeed very ill, that although she looked perfect it was better to let her go. All you can know for sure is that you loved her and did the best you could for her out of that love. It is the only thing we can do, really - do the best we can for our children. Xx

Oh Allways, you know there's no need to apologise or fear judgement here. I have no wise words, just know you and your girls are in my thoughts xxx