Talk : Antenatal support thread for women who have chosen to terminate V

[treedelivery]

Welcome to the 5th thread.

An amazing day to begin a new journey together. The thread babies are arriving and we take this as a positive nod from the great karma controller - whoever and whatever that may be.

Good luck to our thread, to the souls who read, those who post, those who drop in to learn and hold hands.

Our cyber bench is a supportive place, we sit outside hospitals as strong but scared women go to ride their wave. We huddle in our cottage when the weather is bleak, stormy or biting cold.

When the sun shines on us we share stories of real life, gain strength and giggle together in times of warm weather.

Lisbeth and Dramamum; I will be thinking of you both tomorrow and of your angels too.
I hope the sun breaks through for them both.
I will light a candle tonight for them and for you.
We are here and acknowledge their precious, little lives.
gentle hug to you both
Bee xxxxxx

Just want to echo Bee's lovely message, I shall also be thinking of you, your dh's and your precious little ones tomorrow. Stay strong, and we shall be here when you feel up to coming back. Lots and lots of love xxx

Sorry my post said today. Meant to say tomorrow. Thoughts and love to you are still the same though. Teach me for posting on my phone. Xx

Lisbeth and Drama, I will be thinking of you, your babies and your families tomorrow, and send you much love. When I go to the cemetery tomorrow to light a candle, your babies will be in my thoughts, together with my little Silvia xxxx

Thank-you so much lovely ladies; my little Liam is at peace now, bee it's funny what u said about the sun because just after all the readings were over the sun came out..i felt like it was his way of letting me know he was ok and happy where he was.
Lisbeth i thought of you as well as i looked out over the childrens garden where Liam is buried there are lots of little pin-wheels people have left and they were all spinning round i said to the chaplain it's almost as if it's all the babys spirits playing together, she said that was a lovely way of looking at it, i like to think all or our beautiful lost little ones playing together and looking over their mummys and daddys.
I feel a million times better actually just knowing i can go and visit him whenever i like and talk to him, we buried him with the elephant i got him to keep him company...(well it was actually lumpy the heffalump from winnie the pooh but i couldn't find a proper elephant i liked!) and i feel at peace now knowing that he is too.
Lisbeth i hope your DS's ceremony went well and i hope u feel the peace i do, it's odd i never thought it would help this much but saying a proper goodbye is the closure i needed i think.
We have decided not to ttc until later in the summer i think we will both be mentally stronger and ready to try again then, at least i know my body is physically back to normal and ready for me when we do decide the time is right. Until then we will be spending some quality time with DS1 which involves getting up early on Saturday to go and watch bob the builder at the local cinema followed by a visit to the soft play area at a play cafe down the road... he'll think it's his birthday! lol XxXxXxXxXxXxXxX

Drama, I am so "glad" to hear today brought you some peace as well. And I think that indeed by cherishing your ds1 and enjoying every moment with him is the most fitting way to remember Liam.

I hope the day brought some peace for Lisbeth as well.

I feel more and more fragile in the run-up to the consultant appointment, my mind tells me that my baby's awful prognosis can only be confirmed, but I am however terrified she will say the abnormalities were not as bad as they thought. And I felt raw again in these last few days.

Thinking of you all ladies, old-timers and newbies. xxxx

Hi all,

Drama, I echo Coffee in that I'm 'glad' yesterday brought with it some peace for you. It's so hard to find the right words in everyday language. I will think of you and your little man Liam whenever I see Pooh's heffalump. Your planned quality time with DS1 sounds lovely, as do you xxx

Coffee, no doubt your appointment with the consultant feels like another hurdle to pass. When is it again (sorry, I know you've already said)? You have been such a great support for all the new ladies, but it is still early days for you too, so it is no wonder that you are still up and down. (PS: was glad to know Cant and I were able to be of help re: the guilt thing) xxx

Speaking of the new ladies, I hope you're all going 'okay' (again, hard to find the right words), and also, of course, the old timers. Much love to you all xxx

Hi all

Again apologies for being missing in actgion. Just wanted to add my support to Drama and Lisbeth retrospectively for yesterday. Thanks foer telling us about it Drama. It sounds so right - you did exactly what was right for your lost angel. Agree completely that remembering him through your DS is perfect too. The best way we can remember our lost children is draw on the love they have inpsired and make our relationships better. I say that as one who undoubtedly has failed to do that on many occasions, but hey. Lisbeth - hope it went okay for you, too.

Good luck tomorrow, Coffee. And Bezzy, if you are reading this. Coffee, the consultant will NOT say that. Though that was one of my nighmares too. Please come back and tell us what happened, okay? I lurk even though I fail to post and I really want to know how it goes for you.

Bee, hope you are feeling somewhat calmer. You know where I am if you need me.

Marj, sorry about the miscarriage and good luck with the continued trying to conceive.

All is good here. I hesitate to type that, it is so insensitive. But it would be crass to pretend otherwise.

I am thinking of you all lots. You feel like my family....
Hi Mishta and everyone else.

Dearest Marj
I remember you so well from those early, raw days of the thread; when it had just been born. You were as fragile as me I know at the time.
I am sorry to hear that you too had a miscarriage; that is so sad. I guess the only comfort to be taken is that you CAN get pregnant. It is all consuming; the urge to reproduce, to replace the lost souls. It is impossible to give up, to accept defeat, it makes the losses even more unbearable.
I have taken Shangrila's words into my consciousness; that she never really told herself she was going to stop trying. And look at her! I am not in that space, I have an IUD in. We just cannot face the prospect again of more sorrow and distress. But I have somehow allowed the fantasy back into my thoughts; even though I am not trying. I makes it more bearable although it may seem a little odd.
Sending you love
Bee xxxxxxxxxxxx

Thank you Mishta and Cantdo. Bee, what you're saying is not odd, it makes sense. I hope you will find peace, whatever your decision xx

I'm not in a very good place at the moment. Not a very bad place either, but certainly worse than a few days ago. I can't stop thinking that the pm results will not confirm the prognosis, or that we will be told there is something wrong with one of us. I know I am being irrational, but I can't help it.

The run-up to the appointment brought back so many memories, and the same terrible longing, I miss my baby so much my whole body hurts. I am better than in those early days, no doubt about it. But sometimes the despair I felt then comes back, the feeling that I won't ever be able to find peace again. I know I will, but I don't know it all the time.

Cantdo, I will let you know how tomorrow goes. And please, don't ever hesitate to post that all is good for you. This thread would be so much less "real" if everyone who posted was raw and miserable. It is not insensitive. On the contrary, I would say, the fact that you are reaching out means so much. I am lost for words tonight and can't really say what I feel...

And yes, Bezzy if you are reading, I hope your appointment tomorrow goes well and brings some reassurance.

Lisbeth and Drama, I hope Tuesday went as well as it could for you and your families.

Coffee, I hope today brings you answers.

Thinking of you all and your babies.

I've taken a few days away from the thread. Monday was the girls due date. The build up was much worse than the actual day, but still so very sad. My feelings swing from day to day, hour to hour, but I feel stronger than those early days.

Thank you all for wishing us well for Tuesday. It was difficult and surreal on Tuesday. We buried DS in a woodland burial site and when we got there I saw the funeral director's car and just wanted to run away saying no no no. I found it really difficult to accept that DS was in the car ready to be buried. We had to walk to the site where he was buried and it was a really beautiful spot under some trees and in amongst lots and lots of other babies. It sounds a bit daft but I thought at least he won't be alone and lonely. We buried him with a blanket my mum knitted for DD so he has something personal from us with him.
The chaplain said a poem we'd picked about being at peace, being safe amongst the trees and being set free and DH managed to say the words we'd written saying goodbye. Once they'd filled in DS's grave we covered it with the flowers we'd bought and then said goodbye. I told DS how sad and sorry I was and then asked him to forgive me. His grave only has a little wooden marker with a number on but because I can't bear not to be able to find him we're going to get a little wooden plaque made up with his name and birth date on.
I went to the GPs yesterday to talk about it and to ask if it was ok that the site where I'd had the pethidine and diamorphine was still hurting. Today has just been a day of dulled sadness and DH, DD and me just seem to be completely knackered.
I think Tuesday bought some peace and finality to it all. I'm a bit jumbled up so I'm not sure.
Hello to everyone especially Drama and I was wondering if Coffee and Monkey were ok. Thinking of you all and thanking my lucky stars I found this thread x

Hi everybody.

Lisbeth, I am so glad that you, just like Drama, found some peace on the day of the funeral. It was the same for me. I thought of you and your babies on Tuesday. The service for your ds sounds very meaningful and I am sure it will help to now have a place where you can go and feel close to him. It's not daft at all to think he is not lonely, I feel at peace too when I think of my baby in the children's section.

I had my consultant appointment today. I am not sure how I feel. They didn't find a cause, and I asked her three times if the findings of the postmortem confirm the prognosis, and she said yes. She said she saw several cases in similar circumstances with ours, and the outcomes were bed. The funny thing is, although both dh and I were in the same room, having the same conversation, we seem to have perceived things differently. I was very distressed when we left, because the consultant was very neutral. Dh says that it doesn't matter how she said it, the facts are the same.

We have a slightly increased risk of the same problem happening again in a future pregnancy, about 3%. The thing is this can happen any time, even if the 20-week scan is ok, there is a chance of it happening later. So there will be no reassurance for me next time until I have a healthy baby in my arms. But this feels like a miracle now, and I don't dare think so far. I am terrified.

I am now struggling with the same doubts and what if-s. I don't know what more I needed to let go. Maybe it's because she was very neutral (although rationally I know she sees so many cases like ours and she can't get involved in each of them).Most likely because the scan findings were several lesions and most importantly a cyst, around which the brain tissue had died, and the postmortem did not mention the lesions, only the cyst. It sounds silly now that I see it written here.

Anyway, there are so many thoughts in my head, I could go on and on, but I'll just stop, I feel absolutely knackered. Thank you for thinking about me. xxxx

Lisbeth, I completely get what you say about feeling sad that your baby was there without you and yet also the relief that he would have company in the other babies. You sound as though you coped very well with the whole day - I wept through both my babies funerals and yet also felt somehow detached, cant explain it clearly, but was very mixed up. How are you feeling today?

Allways, I can't believe trhe twins due date is upon us so soon. Are you facing more fertility treatment?

Coffee, I felt a bit of a loss after my consultant appointment the first time too. I think after a loss like ours, you will never relax until a pregnancy is over. I guess you feel it was an anti-climax, too. One day at a time... you will try again...

Exhausted but wanted to reach out to you three. Hi to everyone else.

Thank you Cantdo. And Allways, so sorry I didn't acknowledge your post. xx

Dear lovely ladies; been lurking and not posting as I've not much energy to spare just now (DS been ill and trying...) but just wanted to say to Lisbeth and Drama that I'm glad the funerals of your babies were a peaceful goodbye. It is so sad, you have both done so well. xx

...and Coffee, I think consultants have to be neutral. I know what you mean - I think we look for clues in the way information is communicated, not just what information we're given. But in her situation she is probably trained not to give any emotive response, just the facts. However she did say the results confirmed the prognosis they gave you, on which you made your decision - and that in similar cases, the results were the same. So I hope you can find some peace from that, for the sake of Silvia, that you did make the right decision. On the chances of it happening again, if they weren't able to find a cause, on what basis is the 3% risk given? Is it something that could actually happen to anyone in any pregnancy, or do they just give those odds because it happened to you once? I'm guessing that what happened to Silvia doesn't happen very often, so due to lack of information/numbers on which to base predictive statistics they might be overly cautious about the chances of it happening again.

Afraid tired brain has taken over - was going to write more; but just to say take heart, you acted with love and compassion for Silvia, and to still take hope that all can go well next time, that there's a 97% chance all will be fine. And hope is all we can ask for, that thin thread of hope that somehow holds life together sometimes. xx

Allways - thinking of you. xx

Hi Numpty, you are right and I know it, but there is this huge discrepancy between what I know and what I feel. I had a very bad night, but unexpectedly feel much better this morning. A bit more positive. Still terrified, of course, still sad but also, as you say, hopeful. What other choice do I have, but trying again when we're ready? We really want children. I feel like a childless mother. For me this isn't a choice.

I know there are hard times ahead, I have no doubt about that. And I know I will be down again and again. But if this experience has taught me something, it is that I have less control than I would like over the most important things in my life. So I'll just take it day by day. Please everyone do remind me of these positive words when I come back here on one of my bad days.

About the chances of reoccurence: she did say about 3%, but they don't really know what this is based on, since no apparent cause was found ("a freak accident", she said. It is a bit more than the risk in any pregnancy. What I am concerned about is that she said something like this could happen after 20 weeks, although of course it is very rare. But they will not offer me more scans after 20 weeks in the future, unless they see something wrong then. Anyway, there is no way I could do without, so I'll go private if I need to. But I'll cross that bridge when and if I get to it.

I hope I can hold on to this positivity over the week-end as well, but I wouldn't be surprised if I can't. Sorry for the totally self-absorbed post.xx

Forgot to say: Shangrila, if you're reading, thanks again for the folic acid info. She told me I should take 5mg, and I told her my GP didn't want to prescibe it because my baby didn't have a NTD, but I took 5mg anyway. She said I did the right thing, because even if it's not clearly proven it helps, it certainly can't harm.

Also, a question for the ladies from London and the surrounding area. I can get referred to King's for a next pregnancy, to have my scans there. I know they have a brilliant reputation, but any personal experiences? Is everyone there still trained by Prof. Nicolaides? Is there any difference between a nuchal at King's and a nuchal at the FMC?

Me again, I just can't keep away this morning. Just wanted to say to Bezzy, if you're reading: I hope your appointment yesterday went well. Again this word, well, whatever it means under these circumstances. No pressure to post though if you're not up to it. xx

Hello all and to our many newbies

I'm a bit of a veteran here, and I'm trying to wean myself off the thread, hence my absence. You're all doing a wonderful job of supporting each other. Mentally, I'm fine and in a much better place, I'm finally taking hold of RL, had a wonderful holiday to the Dominican Republic, ate too much, and drank gallons. I hope those of you going through very raw pain take comfort in the fact that it does get easier. Corny, but time really does heal.

Anyway, I just wanted to update on the recurrent miscarriage appointment yesterday. Apparently all of our tests have come back completely normal, and she said exactly as Shangrila had previously written, that DH is a boy and I'm a girl. Phew.

I'll write down what the next course of action is, in case anyone else is unfortunate enough to find themselves in the same situation as me.

So, if we should decided to get pregnant again, they're going to treat me with all of the meds that they use in recurrent miscarriage, just in case there's something causing it that they just don't know about. That involves, aspirin, progesterone pessaries (oh joy) and 5mg folic acid. Irritatingly, they'll only give me the prescription for when I'm actually pregnant, so I'll be mega dosing on the Holland & Barrett 8mcg stuff in the meantime.

Thanks for thinking of me Coffee, sorry to hear that you found your appointment so hard. I was absolutely fine in my appointment, until minibez's nursery called to say that she had a fever of 39.9 and that she'd been crying for 45 mins. Just what I needed, I fell apart and wailed, which made the dr extremely uncomfortable. You'd think she'd be used to it!

Much love to all, sorry that I can't write to you individually.

BK xx

Hi Bezzy, so glad to hear you are in a much better place. Your holiday sounds great!

So annoying about the folic acid, I find it very strange that they don't want to give you a prescription before you get pregnant. We should all get discount vouchers from H&B, I think we keep them in business by buying so much folic acid!!!

I'm feeling very chatty today, but I should really do some work instead. One of my colleagues called to tell me she's pregnant (we have a big team meeting on Monday and she will let everyone know then). She's 22 weeks. And you know what? I felt really happy for her. Sad thinking that I was 22 weeks when I terminated, but I really appreciated her calling before and thinking about me. I really feel that this is her baby, it has nothing to do with me, she has her own journey. I'm sure this is due to my hope that all will be well for me as well, but I'm ok at the moment, and I feel such a huge relief for being ok.

Lisbeth, I was overcome with emotion reading about your sons service. The location sounds so peaceful, him being surrounded by other babies and nature is lovely. I'm glad your DH said some words too, despite it being so very difficult.

I wish now we had managed to say something during the girls service. DH did carry their casket and held on to him while he did, but I do regret not saying anything...another regret to add to the many I already carry.

Coffee, Yesterday sounds utterly draining. I know where you're coming from in wanting more emotion from the consultant. Looking for clues in their every word/movement, needing to hear her tell you, you did the 100% right thing. You did do the right thing, the results backed up the scans. It doesn't make the awful choice you made any easier to live with, I hope it doesn't make it worse.

Bezzy, sounds as though you've a good plan ahead from the recurrent miscarriage clinic and although they found nothing to suggest why you've gone through the losses, its positive that you will be medicated to prevent further loss.

We returned to the fertility clinic on Wed and had a very positive meeting with the consultant. We can start a fresh IVF cycle with my next period. They see no reason why we shouldn't get pregnant again. It was so very hard hearing he say how sorry he was for our loss. He said he'd never come across such an unlucky case. Maybe that sums us up, our luck is just rotten? I swing from feeling totally daunted by the thought of going through ivf again to positive about having a plan of action/ focus. We will be starting the cycle after we've had the results of the Rose and Lillys pm. So my big worry now is that there is something wrong with me or my husband to prevent us from ever trying again.

Oh Allways, regarding your regret for not saying anything: you did the best you could in some awful circumstances. You might not have spoken, but the connection between you and your babies was not less strong. You carried them with so much love and honoured their short, precious lives. There aren't always words, this doesn't mean there isn't love, or that the sorrow is less intense.

Did you get a date for the pm results? It took 12 weeks for ours to come through.

I know what you mean by worrying there is something wrong. As I was sitting in the waiting room yesterday, I was sure the news would be bad, I was convinced she will send us for further tests. I think it's self-defence, our minds preparing us for teh worse, in an attempt to avoid further heartache.

Your voice is changed though. You sound so much more in control. I wanted to say "so much stronger", but this wouldn't have been right, because you have always sounded very strong. You sound a bit more at peace. Still haunted by fear and anxiety, aren't we all, but somehow a bit calmer. Hugs to you xx

Good morning ladies.

As I expected, it didn't take long for my positivity to fade. I almost wish I didn't have the consultant appointment, it brought back all my doubts. I go over the conversation in my head, again and again, but it's very strange, I actually don't remember bits of it, which my dh clearly does. He said I was clearly unwell, on the edge, and my brain must have blocked out some bits.

The thing is, when we spoke with the consultant when we were trying to decide what to do, back in February, she was not neutral, she was compassionate and when she told us the problems were severe, she was very convincing. Now she was much more matter of fact, no emotion shown, and I think I was actually expecting the same attitude as before, I was expecting a bit more reassurance from her. I am being naive, I know.

Also, what concerns me is that there was no mention in the pm report of the lesions found at the scan. I know these lesions were the least important findings, and the abnormalities which made the prognosis so bad were found, but somehow I am wondering if they couldn't have been wrong about the prognosis. Writing it down now makes me see there isn't much logic in this, but this thought is awful.

Anyway, I am just going round in circles in my mind and I am back to square one, I feel like I took a massive step back. I really was better but now I seem to have relapsed, and these doubts are paralysing. Sorry to just repeat myself, but I really needed to offload.