Talk : Antenatal support thread for women who have chosen to terminate V

[treedelivery]

Welcome to the 5th thread.

An amazing day to begin a new journey together. The thread babies are arriving and we take this as a positive nod from the great karma controller - whoever and whatever that may be.

Good luck to our thread, to the souls who read, those who post, those who drop in to learn and hold hands.

Our cyber bench is a supportive place, we sit outside hospitals as strong but scared women go to ride their wave. We huddle in our cottage when the weather is bleak, stormy or biting cold.

When the sun shines on us we share stories of real life, gain strength and giggle together in times of warm weather.

HI Coffee

Please don't feel like you're going backwards. I know from my own experience, I'd have one good day where I'd think I was healed and then I'd have 3 bad days, then another good day, and so on. The good days DO become more frequent, I promise.

Sorry that you didn't get the compassion you deserved on Thursday, it's tough being brave.

You're doing a great job, happiness will come.

Much love

BK xx

Coffee,

Hello, it's mmetracyt here. Been watching your posts, hope you're doing ok today.

I think you're in very good hands. I think it is you who is being referred to Nikolades. When I had my scan and the horror began, a friend of mine was begging me to find a way to go to Nickolades, as he is the best. He had helped a friend of hers who'd had a very bad nuchal result and he persuaded her that the outcome wouldn't be as indicated and she went ahead and had a healthy baby. Wow!

I have posted before about not feeling present in my consultant meetings. We were treated at St Mary's by Dr Lakasing and she said it was disoccosiation and very common. So not a surprise you feel that way and nothing to worry about. I think I said before I had to ask OH to explain every little thing because I wasn't listening because it didn't feel like it was happening to me. I think you will get more neutrality with a post mortem as there's less margin for error, the consultant can't help you with your grieving which is what you need. We all can though.

Happiness for your friend at 22 weeks seems to be a great sign too.

These are dark days but getting lighter.

Just a quick hello to you all as I still potentially have a good couple of hours of sleeptime left before my day begins.

Reading and thinking of all you lovely ladies, new and 'old'. Coffee, hope your feeling 'better' (oh words just seem so lame, but you know what I mean). Here's to a peaceful week for everyone xxx

Hi all xx

Just popping by to say hi and to send you all my love, especially to the new ladies who have found themselves here.

Am thinking of you all lots, not least because it's my lovely Gracie's due date today. Am sat here at my desk, absentmindedly doing very little work - which kind of defeats the whole point of coming in to the office to try and keep myself occupied. DH and I plan to visit the cemetery later and then go out for dinner, so am hoping to be able to raise a glass of something fizzy in honour of my baby girl.

I truly hope you are all doing well, and hope that the days are getting lighter for each and every one of you. We deserve that and so much more.

All my love,
Viv xxx

Viv, Hi. We were both on the May board together. Thinking of you, DH and Gracie today. I hope you do indeed raise a glass of something fizzy in her honour.

Coffee, I'm glad you feel happiness for your pregnant friend. I filled with utter jelousy that my brother and his gf are pregnant, my bitterness only grows with each passing week. I don't think you are going backwards at all. You've revisited some very sad places recently, returning to the hospital and meeting with your consultant. All things to stir up the pain. I hope you're feeling stronger and your doubts are vanishing.

Hi to everyone else. Hope you're finding some warmth in your days.

Hi Allways

I remember you too, and hope you and DH are doing okay? Here's hoping Gracie's up there somewhere playing with Lilly and Rose and all our lovely other babies from this thread xx

Hi ladies. Viv, I can only imagine what a difficult day this is for you, Silvia's due date in not until 23 June, but only thinking about it hurts so much. I hope you will remember her tonight with peace in your heart.

Allways, about my pregnant colleague: it was hard to see her, especially since she is 22 weeks, which is when it all ended for me. But I did feel that this is her baby, not mine. Very hard to explain. Also, because she actually thought about me and told me she is pregant before telling everyone else, I found this easier to deal with.

I had an awful week-end, but it is getting a bit better. I do feel much sadder though than before the consultant appointment. I didn't expect this appointment to bring back so many memories. I feel very fragile.

Anyway, work is really busy so the weeks go by very quickly. I really am wishing my life away at the moment.

I'm rambling again...

Hello ladies, I haven't been on much as I can't quite figure out how to express what I'm feeling, but I think I'm in a bit of a mess. Coffee I'm so sorry to hear that you've 'relapsed' as you put it, but as I keep being reminded this is such a huge rollercoaster of emotions.

I went back to work yesterday after four months off, and I really struggled. I might have mentioned this before (?) but I work with a lady (in the same classroom) who's pregnant and due three days before I was. I've been trying to prepare myself mentally for the situation, and have seen her a couple of times since losing the baby so her bump wouldn't be such a shock, but my goodness me it is absolute torture. There's only about twenty of us in the building I work in, and we are quite a close knit group, but most people don't know what happened with me. There's another girl who's pg too. I just can't bear being so close to them and having it rubbed in my face every day. Yesterday and today I've come out of work feeling like I'm flailing around in emotional quicksand as I have all these feelings that I can't work out how to deal with. I feel like I'm being slowly torn apart, it hurts so very much. Everything is wrong and I can't make it better. I just wish with every single cell of my being that it hadn't turned out like this.
I only have 7 weeks to get through before the summer holidays so I suppose I shall just have to grit my teeth and get on with it. It's a situation that isn't likely to get any easier.

Coffee, I too feel so very fragile, like I could just fall apart at any minute. I want to be wrapped up securely and have someone tell me that everything will be alright, but no-one can do that. We just have to get through this. It's lovely of your friend to have thought of you, and to have acknowledged your loss by telling you first. It can make a huge difference to the way you feel if you're taken into consideration.

Hi Viv, I don't think we've 'met' before, but I am thinking of you and your dh today. I hope you do manage to have a drink in Gracie's honour. I recognise your name from lurking on the ttc boards a bit. I hope work has managed to occupy you even slightly...

I must go I'm afraid. I have been reading all your messages on this thread, even though I haven't felt up to posting. You are all in my thoughts xxx

Hi Monkey and everyone else. I was just coming on to post something similar really.
I found out this afternoon from DH that another friend (that's 3 now) is due within a couple of weeks of when DS was due. The 3rd friend is due to have her 20 week scan shortly and is feeling apprehensive because of what happened to us. This will be her 3rd DC. Another one of my 3 friends lives two doors away from us and every time I see her walking with her bump it is extremely difficult. My bump is buried in a wood 5 miles away.

I'm finding that a really horrible part of me is angry with them for having healthy babies. I don't wish anything bad would happen to any of them at all - I'm just feeling occasionally white hot with anger that it's not me and that DH and I had to bury our son a week ago today. I think it's a bit of me just wants to shout, as if I was 13 again, but it's just NOT fair!! Not really a very useful response though.

Another friend (who has 2 healthy kids) and who DD and I used to see at least once a week seems to be giving me a wide berth too. I think she probably thinks I will cry all over her and she's never been very good or really wanted to broach anything emotional.

Basically I just want to shout and scream today - I think I might find a pillow to scream into once DD is in bed and then I might find some wine.

Thank you to all those who have been on this thread for a while for saying that there's hope that there will be light in the future. It still feels very dark sometimes.

Lisbeth,

I'm so sorry.

I don't think it's possible to control the feelings you have for other women who are pregnant. I've noticed I haven't asked after any of my 7 godchildren since it all happened, I certainly haven't seen friends with new babies or contacted my old college friend who's (bias comment coming: stupid) girlfriend conceived the same day as me. I couldn't bear my step children and I hated them for being so alive and, it was the strongest feeling I've ever had - uncontrollable. I did tell a couple of people - including you people here - and eventually him and that made it easier and he's helping me deal.

It is too much to expect anything other, I guess the only thing to remember is perhaps one day soon, some of us might have other children taking shape and there will be ladies joining this thread every day who are in terrible shape because they're about start to go through what we're going through, and we might get to like them and feel like our friends do about us, that we hope somewhere some day they can be pleased for us, although it might be too hard at first. I would love it if you lot got pg and it wouldn't relate it to me at all, so I know I'm capable of good will towards gradually fattenning ladies.

Anyone who has to work with someone or has a family link to someone who's pg. Poor you. Someone said grit your teeth and get on with it - absolutely. I'm so sorry. Just remember you're brilliant and they're probably idiots.

Love xx

First of all, I just wanted to say to Fufulina, if you?re reading, that I thought of you very unexpectedly when I was coming back home from the cemetery. Please forgive me if I?m terribly confused, but I thought you said a few days ago that your babies? funeral is tomorrow? If it is so, I?ll send you a big virtual hug tomorrow, and think of you, your babies and your family. If I?m wrong, I?m sorry, it just means my mind is playing tricks on me.

Monkey, you are doing so well. It is horrible for you at the moment, but you do sound like you know this is something which won?t last forever. I find it is so important to remember better days must lie ahead? we will all get through this. Although I am so fed up of living from day to day. I guess the only ?positive? is that you might become desentised, get used to seeing bumps, and get that little bit closer to ?recovery?.

Lisbeth, the pillow really is a good idea. I felt so much anger and I had to let it out, and this was one of the ways to do it. This and playing squash with dh when I wasn?t too tired physically, which I was very often?

Mmetracyt, I feel the same, I am very happy for the ladies in here who are/were pregnant: Cantdo, Numpty, Mishtabel and all the others. No trace of any envy, no difficulty in ?talking? with them. I lurk on the sister thread as well and I?m cheering inside every time there is good news. Actually, it would be such a shame if this thread was only reserved for misery, stories of hope are so important, and I hope we will all have such stories to share as well in the future, when other tortured souls will come in here.

Hi all

been waiting for a chance to write a long message but it never comes so here goes with a short one.

I am thinking of you all. Coffee, agree with the others, it isnt a relapse, its just part of the ups and downs. You have already come so far. Sadness is normal. Expressing it does help- but it doesnt make it go away.

And everyone else, I concur: it ISNT FAIR. I said that so often. I still think it. I want to say it by stamping my feet like a toddler... it isnt fair that you have all been through all of this.

MmeTracy, you put it so well a few posts down about the consultants. I think we subconsciously want them to have made our decisions for us... and they wont. Well they cant. But it doesnt mean they judge us, they just cant do the deciding for us. Actually the GP tended to be tell me: 'you were so right' and 'everyone would have done that' as did the midwives... but that is fake, really, as some women dont make the same decisions I did and that's okay too.

Jealousy... I didnt even get away from that when pregnant again. I felt as though pregnancy was a terrifying place for me and that wasnt fair either. Was more jealous of bumps, than actual babies, who clearly werent mine.

I have no answers to that, either, only time... and maybe time only works if you do get pregnant again and it works... I just dont know. It takes different time for different people.. snd it depends how your next pregnancy goes... but it DOES get easier. I promise. Slowly, up and down, but it does.

Lots of hugs to you all and sorry I cant post more. I think of you all a lot.

Oh Lisbeth. Its all so wrong, unfair, painfull. You're little boy should be with right now. I have no answers as to why you're living this nightmare, but I feel you're pain and wish you were not.

Seems many of us are in the same place right now. My sister in law is expecting her first baby in September. Her pregnancy has become the elephant in our relationship. We never talk about face to face, though I do text her often asking after scans, her wellbeing. My envy for her healthy, worry free pregnancy is making me very bitter indeed. Mmetracyt and Monkey gritting teeth is the only way I feel I can get throug this. I feel no grudge against those ladies who've graduated to the sister board. They pave the way for us.

Coffee, I found the build up to the girls due date harrowing. I felt so fragile before hand, on the day found courage from somewhere and got through the day with much sadness, but it was easier than I'd feared. Prehaps you and DH could take the day of work and have a picnic / take a long walk? or you could do what we did, stay home and take each hour as you find it.

Fufulina, hope you're doing as well as you can be. And the same to all others.

Hi Cantdo, so good to hear from you (didn't mean this to rhyme...). I've missed you, bug hugs to you and little miss Cantdo

I feel a bit better today, so I'm "enjoying" it while it lasts. Hello to all of you lovely ladies xxxx

Oups,I obviously meant big hugs, not bug hugs...

Hello everyone! sorry i haven't posted in a while i've just been lurking because i've actually been pretty good the last week or so, now we have laid Liam to rest i feel so much better knowing that i can go and visit him whenever i like speaking of which were going up for the 1st time together on sat which will be nice as we haven't done that yet we've both been seperatley just haven't had the chance to go together yet. Monkey and Coffee i know what u mean with regards to pg work colleges and friends since i lost Liam i have found out that 2 of my old school friends, 1 of msy old college friends and my old boss who i am extreamly good friends with still are all pg as well as that one of my friends and his DW had a little girl not long after i had Liam. I found it very hard to deal with at first and i still can't help being jealous but i console myself with the fact that; that will hopefully one day be me again, with that in the back of my head i can even walk past mothercare no problem lol.
Always i also know what u mean about the Elephant in the room DP tries to protect me so much from anything baby related and every time i mention how any of my friends are doing he will change the subject but i think thats because it hurts him too.
We had a bit of a boo boo last night, i haven't started using any contraception since Liam was born..at first cause well there just wasn't any need but i only came off of microgynon about a week before Liam was conceived and i can't help but think that may have contributed somehow to his condition as they recommend u come of it 3 months b4 trying to conceive (which i found out afterwards!) anyway long story short i realised this morning i may very well be fertile and am now...for lack of a more eloquent term pooing my pants! am going to do an ov test in a mo i have some left from last time so hopefully i'll get a better indication! i shall keep u posted. DM XxXxX

Think i'm ok, i think i just missed the window and i'm pretty sure my body isn't ready for that yet,i know my mind isn't at any rate! i can have a glass of wine tonight safe in the knowlage i won't be doing any damage....phew ! XxXxX

Drama, you sound in a good place at the moment. It is good to hear. Hope the sun shines fro you're vitit to Liam at the weekend.

I'm using ov sticks for the opposite reason, feel very ready to try again and although we can start ivf with my next period, we're hoping for to catch that supposed window of fertility after birth and have a natural conception!

We are attending a memorial for still born babies tonight at the hospital we had Rose and Lilly at. So far I'm feeling ok about it and hope to gain from being surrounded by other families who know our pain and the journey we've shared. I even feel ok about going back to the hospital. Today is an ok day!

Ooh Allways - hope it goes well tonight. We're due to attend a memorial service for lost babies at Salford Cathedral on 6th June which is organised by St Mary's Hospital - am slightly nervous I won't be able to hold it together during the service, but I believe they light candles, let off balloons and read out the names of all those that sadly never made it. Hopefully it will be uplifting, rather than sad. x

Drama, I'm happy that you seem to be in a better place. And I agree, having a place to go to and feel close to your baby does help. It is heartbreaking, but it does help.

Allways, I hope tonight will be special. Glad to hear you are having an ok day and you sound a bit more positive about TTC again. I so hope things work out this time. We are also ready to start again, but I am so terrified, I feel I can't really talk about it, as if talking about it would bring bad luck. Plus there is no excitement at all, only the urge to have a baby to mother.

Viv, the service sounds very meaningful. I am sure it will be a special occasion to remember Gracie.

I'm not very well tonight. The day has been ok, but all of a sudden tonight, the old despair is here again. The old anger. I should have been getting ready for my maternity leave. I would have been a mum next month. It's all so bloody wrong and I'm just drifting from one day to the next, no meaning at all. I'm tired. I know so well a lot of you ladies in here have been through worse, but I am tired and just need to let it out. I am fed up.

It feels very good to write it all in here. I hope tomorrow I'll be a bit more optimistic.

Coffee,

I'm sorry to hear it's not a good day, it's not surprising is it, it's not natural to be expecting a baby and to have it taken away from you. It's understandable to have anger about that, and in getting it out, you're getting through it.

I've never really understood what this phrase means before right now reading your post but I think it suddenly is the right thing to say: please be kind to yourself. You sound in the midst of despair, I understand the powerful urge to ttc again and could not say anything other than encouragement for that, but do remember your poor little body has been through a lot and needs a bit of cherishing, worshiping, and general admiration for what it is capable of. The mind may be angry but the body's knackered as well.

love mtt,

and hope your service was good always, sounds like a lovely way to remember.

Thank you mmt. I replied last night then when I tried to post, no internet connection and I lost the message! Luckily it was a short one.

I don't know where the anger came from last night. I hadn't felt angry since the funeral. The despair I think was just when I realised another day went by and I didn't do anything meaningful at all. And this, combined with the sadness, is very heavy. I don't want holidays, or a bbq summer, or anything else, I just want my baby.

And in a perverse sort of way, the beautiful weather brings heartache, in my mind it is associated with the time when Silvia should have been born.

But not really much choice there, so as has been said in here only a couple of days ago, I'll just grit my teeths and carry on. I'm still kicking...

Hello Everyone

I have been reading through this thread as I have also recently (2 weeks ago) had a termination for Trisonomy 21. My story is over on the the Conception message board under "one tubers trying to conceive" as I had previously been seeking support for an ectopic pregnancy last year and then had been overjoyed at being pregnant again and then devastated to end this pregnancy, not least as I am going to be 40 next week (on the same day as the ectopic pregnancy would have been due - the joy!). I was "lucky" enough though to have been able to have a surgical termination though so as devastated as I am and continue to be my heart goes out to all of you who went through this in later weeks; really I am not sure how/if I could have coped with that so my admiration and love to you for getting through it.

I really wanted to post though to address some of Lisbeths comments about anger and the dark side of grief which I thought may be helpful, or at least I have found it helpful. A friend is an acquaintance of a writer/film maker who made a heartbreaking documentary (that won some awards over here in Australia where I am currently living) about the conception, pregnancy and ultimately the loss of her full term daughter (the documentary, called Losing Layla) was originally about having a child when your partner didn't want to be a father but became about grief as it had a tragic ending). Anyway, the documentary is just heart shattering but in it she makes the following observations about grief that I thought I would paraphrase...

" the challenge was the unacceptable sides of grief ...its hard to feel those feelings rising in yourself and hard to accept them and I had those feelings of seeing babies in the street and seeing pregnant woman in the street and wanting their babies to die so they would know how it felt. Horrible to feel that. When people don?t acknowledge my grief anger rises. Grief is unchartered territory and it is hard to accept all the dark places that it is"

I haven't felt to quite such an extreme but I personally found comfort in knowing that the dark side of what I am feeling is probably relatively 'normal'. I also found even more eloquent the way that she talked about going out in the world after the event.

"You go into the world and are looking normal but you feel so isolated. In the past people used to wear black so everone would know you are in mourning. Now, you are in mourning but no one knows you are. You walk along the street and in the bank and in shops and inside you are screaming you want to say this has happened to me i?m really wounded but you know you look normal. To others you are in invisible and it is like you grief is invisible".

Anyway, I hope this post isn't too random but these words helped me feel again like someone else (in a more extreme way given the magnitude of her loss) understands and knows how I feel.

I hope this post isn't too random for a first post but when I read Lisbeths words I just wanted to share.

Best wishes and hope everyone (including me) has good days to come.

xx

Hi Scrumdiddlyumptious, so sorry to hear about your loss. We have another lovely lady from Australia on this thread and the sister one, Mishtabel.

Thank you for sharing, those words are so true. I think it is just so hard to accept that having bad thoughts sometimes doesn't mean we are bad people.

Scrumdiddlyumptious, hello and I'm sorry you have a loss that has brought you to us. Thank you for sharing those quotes, they sum up exactly how I feel at times. The one about not wearing black, but still being in mourning is so very true. I've only just started to wear make up again. I feel / felt that wearing mascara would somehow say that I'm not going to cry and I wasn't upset /hurt anymore. I felt guilty putting on a slick of lipstick, how could I wear lipstick while my girls are in an ashes casket at home? It?s taken / taking some time to tell myself it?s ok to do these simple things, I'm not betraying my girls in doing so. I also admit to feeling the same as the first quote. I often need people to feel the depth of my pain. It certainly is uncharted territory!

The service yesterday was lovely. It was the first one the hospital has held and there was standing room only in the large room. So sad to see so many families and parents who?ve lost a baby and child, but there was a great deal of comfort and love in our shared grieve. The hospital staff read out many poems, all with the most amazing words. The choir sang tears in heaven and fields of gold. The hospital chaplains spoke of how our lives have been touched briefly, but deeply by our babies and for hope for the future. The babies names were read out.....such a long list, so many heartbroken families. A short film of birds flying high above the ocean was played. I often think about the girls as birds, flying free. They were born in early spring, just as the birds in our garden became more active and vocal. The last song was somewhere over the rainbow by Eva Cassidy. The same song we played at the girls? cremation, it will always be Rose and Lilly?s song. We were able to write a message on little flower cards and they have been hung on a ?tree of love? the cards will eventually go into a memory book. At the end we all went outside into the evening sun and the children who were there released balloons. We stood and watched them float off into the distance, free just like the birds.