Talk : Antenatal support thread for women who have chosen to terminate V

[treedelivery]

Welcome to the 5th thread.

An amazing day to begin a new journey together. The thread babies are arriving and we take this as a positive nod from the great karma controller - whoever and whatever that may be.

Good luck to our thread, to the souls who read, those who post, those who drop in to learn and hold hands.

Our cyber bench is a supportive place, we sit outside hospitals as strong but scared women go to ride their wave. We huddle in our cottage when the weather is bleak, stormy or biting cold.

When the sun shines on us we share stories of real life, gain strength and giggle together in times of warm weather.

Coffee, thank you.. I really needed a hand hold today! I am off in the next hour or so once I've clear the bits on my desk!

I have been off alcohol completely but I think I'm going to have a glass of vino tonight! Crying is good... its lets out all of the pressure & tension... lots of love xxxx

Hi Popsy, Coffee, Gina..

Popsy, how are you feeling today? will your little one have a funeral service? Hope you are doing as okay as can be expected.

Gina and Coffee, I agree entirely with Coffee - meltdowns are a necessary part of living through this. We pick ourselves up and make ourselves carry on - unsurprisingly at times its just too much. A glass of wine does help a bit... mostly it's just a case of getting through it. And the meltdowns get less frequent and it does get easier. I am not sure we ever get past the imagining the future that could have been, though.

I too am comforted by the idea of our babies together even though I am not much of a believer. What I hate most is imagining mine alone and me not being with them.

I am going through my own anxieties right now. 36 weeks pregnant and currently very anxious about this baby after losing the last two so horribly.

I am thinking of everyone at our different stages. It does help to imagine our babies altogether somewhere comforting each other...

Good luck today Bezzy if you are reading - I think it's the anniversary of the horrible nuchal for you. Thinking of you.

Good morning to everyone,

Have to dash so a very quick message. Bezzy, big hug, I'll be thinking of you xx Gina, I hope you feel better today and Popsy, when you can and feel able to write, let us know how you are. Cantdo, I hope the days pass quickly until you have the little one in your arms. Of course you can't relax, after everything we've been through we all live in a different world to that in which women have healthy, uncomplicated pregnancies. But you will meet the little one soon, you so deserve this after your losses. I am sorry but I can't remember if you know the sex. Also, will you have a natural birth or a C-section?

Wishing you all a peaceful day xxxx

Hello everyone,
Gina, I really hope your day was better today.
Coffee, I hope you enjoyed your glass of red wine last night, I'm sure it helped, if only a little.
Cant, I understand you are anxious but, at 36 weeks you've made it through the difficult part of your pregnancy which is so wonderful. It will be fine. Try to enjoy your pregnancy as much as possible (easier said than done I know).
I'm not feeling at my most eloquent but I hope everyone is hanging on in there and doing as well as can be.
My news is, as I feared, that I have 'retained product' and am going to hospital on Friday for an ERPC. I was very upset when I found out (it feels like every time I tell myself 'this is the worst thing that can happen', it does). And of course I'm worried that I will be the 'one' that this straightforward procedure won't go to plan with, but that aside, I'm hoping that once I've had it I'll start to feel more human and energetic.
Spring having sprung certainly helps me to feel optimistic. It's been a really horrible few months and I understand now that this is not something I will ever 'get over'. The whole experience will be absorbed by me and form part of who I am in the future but I do feel that soon, things will start to get better again x

Hi Moneli, so sorry to hear that you have to go back to hospital, I?ll be keeping my fingers crossed that everything goes as planned. At the same time, the optimism in your ?voice? is like a breath of fresh air.

I?m afraid I can?t say the same for me. I?ve had a shitty day, had to go to St. Thomas Hospital for work and seeing so many pregnant women was certainly a reminder that I should have been almost 30 weeks pregnant myself. I feel strong one moment but fall to pieces the next, and am absolutely exhausted. All I can think of is trying to conceive again, which won?t happen for a while anyway. Then I just panic at the thought this can happen again, and feel like I owe it to Silvia to put this thought out of my mind for now. This is her time with me, and I?m already thinking about another baby. Also, I really started thinking that I should have waited a few more weeks before terminating, have some more scans, and hope that a miracle will happen. The consultant did tell us that her brain had not formed properly from the start, and that because of so many abnormalities it can?t possibly continue to develop properly and she might even die in the womb in the following weeks, but it somehow feels like we didn?t try everything, and we owed it to our daughter to hope a little while longer. I feel like we failed her.

I know in my mind that the reason I?m thinking about another baby is not to replace Silvia, and that there was no hope, but my heart tells me otherwise. This is one of those days when the rawness doesn?t go away and I just have to accept it, it?s just that this daily rollercoaster is so exhausting!

Hi Moneli, what a PITA about the retained 'products' and having to go back to hospital. But it's good they've found this out and it's good that you're feeling positive - I agree the spring helps (my 20 week termination was in glorious June weather, and the sunshine was uplifting in a way). Totally agree that this experience doesnt go away but as you say becomes part of us - the trick, I think, is not letting it define us, just accepting it as part of who we are now.

Hi Coffee, horrible to have to go past all the pregnant women. I have struggled with that so much this past year, not newborns, but bumps. Actually I've been a bit obsessive about it - just a warning in case you find yourself heading that way like me... About the not having done enough - I felt this, too. Not so much with the 2nd lost baby, but the first, because, to cut a long story short, with the first I accepted the diagnosis that the baby couldnt survive and didnt wait for amnio to explain why (had been going to have CVS but the placental position made it impossible) - I just felt there was no point in waiting. Then I was haunted by the what-ifs. You didnt fail Silvia though, you have done everything for her. You couldn't save her - nobody could. This might get easier when you get the postmortem apptment with the consultant...

As for the trying again... I waited 3 months after the first termination, and just 1 period after the second. I hope trying again doesnt mean we have forgotten the babies we lost - it is just a way of trying to move forward. I am sure the chances of it happening to you again are very very small. I know that doesn't make it easier. But you will get there, as you say; this is part of the roller-coaster...

Hi to everyone else...

Hello ladies, i hope you are all ok.
So sorry you are having to return to hospital Moneli. I hope all goes ok for you.
I am feeling ok, ups and downs really. It has bought back many memories and emotions from our loss last year and just how bloody unfair it all is. Although I seem to be handling things better this time around, i dont know why. Dont get me wrong i am utterly devastated by loosing another baby boy but i am desperate not to return to the state i was in last year.
Coffee i too feel like i have failed both my little boys, i also feel i have failed as a woman. I took so long to fall pg i dont know if i will be able to again!
Have you ladies decided if you are going to try again? I am so scared it will all go wrong again, but i am 35yrs and feel i havnt got time on my side.

Sorry for a moan, but home alone today and i feel worse when i am on my own.

xx

Hi Popsy, sorry to hear you?re having a down day. It?s so soon after your termination though, and also being home alone doesn?t help at all. It took a few weeks for me to be able to be home on my own, and it would have taken longer if I wasn?t working from home most of the time. I hope you?re not alone tonight though and you?re well looked after? xx

I also had two very hard days, yesterday evening actually I must have had the worse meltdown so far, and this morning I woke up very shaky and tearful. I don?t know why, but tonight is slightly better, I feel calmer. I was thinking today that March seems to be such a difficult time for a lot of us on this thread, maybe this is the reason why it has been relatively quiet in here these last few days, sometimes there just aren?t any words. Or maybe that many of the ?oldies? of the thread have somehow reached a different stage and they need some time away for a while, whereas for us ?newbies? it?s all so raw that we need to talk, and talk. Or maybe I had too much wine tonight and I?m just rambling on.

About the TTC, not only have I thought about it, but it?s actually all I?m thinking about. It?s not going to happen for us until we have the results of the post-mortem and my periods become more regular again. But as you say Popsy, I?m already terrified that it will all go wrong again. I already know that if I fall pregnant again, it will be a matter of getting through the days one at a time. For the moment I am shamelessly lurking on the sister thread, hoping I?ll join it in the not so distant future.

Cantdo, you?re such a special lady for being able to hold our hands through this when you are so very pregnant and looking after a toddler as well! And with all the anxieties you?re facing in the run up to the birth?I know there isn?t anything anyone can say that will make you worry less after what you?ve been through, but hang in there, it?s almost 37 weeks now, only a little bit left to go xx

I don?t know if Bezzy and Bee are reading, but just to say I?m thinking of you facing this awful month. Moneli, I hope everything goes ok tomorrow. And to everyone else, much love and may April bring some better days.

Hello Popsy1 and coffee,
I hope you are doing OK. I can't say I felt as though I let my baby down as I was able to see the problems he had quite clearly in the scan and also when I held him to say goodbye. However I do know what you mean Popsy by saying you feel like you have failed as a woman. Of course you haven't, you have just been very, very unlucky, but I felt the same way. The feeling has faded a little but a few weeks ago I tortured myself looking at women surrounded by their broods of children thinking 'why wasn't I able to do that'. I'm sure it must be a natural part of our grieving/healing process. Like you I am very keen to start trying again (was as soon as it happened). Not because it will replace the little boy we lost, nothing will be able to do that, but it will feel like the balance has been redressed a little and the good will maybe start to outweigh the bad. Before having the complication of having to go back for an ERPC I asked my doctor about it and she said after a medical termination there was no strong medical reason to wait 6 weeks (what the hospital had told me) so it is just up to you and how you feel (although you should still check your case with your doctor). I'm sorry to hear you took a long time to conceive but if it's any consolation I'm 38 (39 in July) and had my first son aged 36, so you do still have time.
Cant and Coffee, I know what you mean about finding bumps hard to see. I have a few NCT friends from the first time round and we all fell pregnant for the second time at the same time, so I'm in the difficult situation of wanting to see them because they are friends but every time I do it's a reminder of what I lost and where I 'should' be in my pregnancy now.
Anyway, I have to be at hospital at 7am and can't eat or drink when I get up so I'm going to gorge myself on chocolate while I can this evening!
Thinking of you all and hoping this thread is helping you x

Good luck tomorrow, Moneli. I hope it passes quickly and you can get back to some semblance of normality.

Popsy, you haven't failed in any way. Something failed - but it wasnt you. It must make it harder knowing how you've struggled to conceive. I suppose you have to cling to the fact that you did conceive and so you can again. TTC again was what spurred me on after my second termination last year. As Moneli said, not to replace the lost child, but to create some kind of future hope.

Coffee, I think you're so right about old-timers needing time out from the thread. What this thread does is allow us to maintain the relation to our lost babies when the rest of the world has forgotten them. Sometimes though you reach a place where to continue your life and move forward you kind of need time out from this because in a way it defines us via our loss. I think. I also think it's easier for me to post here at the moment than for other old-timers because I am lucky enough to have conceived and passed the nuchal and anomaly scan stages where we all suffered traumas. I add that even past those stages, it's still hard being pregnant. But it's easier than not being pregnant, or being in early pregnancy was - there is a lot more hope, even if it's strongly overshadowed in fear. Anyway I feel at a stage where it helps me to talk to you all who are at a much rawer stage - it helps me to remember where I was and where I am and it helps me to feel I am not forgetting my lost babies even though I am nurturing another.
Phew - that was long and I haven't even got the excuse of wine!

I think I'll follow Moneli's example with the chocolate though....

Tree, Justa, Bezzy, Bee, Mrs BG, Viv, everyone else, hi!

Hi everyone. Welcome Popsi, I'm so sorry for all you have been through, but I'm glad you have found your way here xx

I have been reading and went to post a message yesterday but it got lost somehow. Have gone back to cut and pasting to ensure that does not happen again.

Many times when I want to post, I feel I won't be able to respond to everyone as I would like, so I don't post at all, rather than leaving someone out, or writing a quick couple if words when the situation deserves so much more. Coffee, that might be another reason some seem quiet at times. Often someone else has come along and said just what I was thinking anyway, which is good. But I'm always reading and thinking of you all, so just know that.

Also Coffee, many of us have tried or wanted to try again straight away, and I don't think it's the baby we want to replace, more the wonderful feeling the baby gave us. I think thats only natural. Someone once wrote in a card to me, and I believe the same would be true of Silvia; "She would never have wanted her mummy to be so sad". I'm sure Silvia would be all for anything that might bring you some happiness xx

I'm sorry to hear of your meltdowns, but then I also think they are so necessary and expected. I think a drink or two can be useful on those days when you can feel the tears building, just to relax us enough to really be able to feel. We spend so much of our time having to repress our feelings in order to get through the day as functioning human beings, it's sometimes hard to release them at will. In the early days, I would often set aside time to have a couple of drinks and a good cry (not too many, mind you, cause then I would end up just a blubbering mess).

Have to go, but just wanting to say that I hope all goes ok for you today Moneli xx

Am thinking of you all xxx

Hi everyone,
Monely I hope all went as well as it could at the hospital and you?re well looked after today and this weekend xx

Mishta, nice to hear your kind voice again. I also worry sometimes that I am not able to reply to everyone or might forget things, but there are so many of us here I don?t think this can be avoided. And Cantdo, you?re absolutely right; I can perfectly understand that you sometimes need to get away for a while in order to go on. But I also think that if someone new comes along, everyone is here to give a hand and comfort. This is a big deal. I can honestly say I don?t know how I would have coped the first weeks after my termination and also with the funeral without being so amazingly supported in here.

I feel better today. It might of course change until tonight, but again it might not, since tonight I?m going to play squash with dh. It IS the best form of therapy and I feel sorry for that ball... So I don?t drink every night, I swear

I also feel a bit more optimistic today, I realised that our little Silvia will always be part of our family, our first baby, and I have no doubt whatsoever that we?ll commemorate her for as long as we live. If I laugh sometimes or feel happy again, it doesn?t mean I lost her. This is like a breakthrough for me. I don?t want to remember her with bitterness in my heart ? with sadness yes, it?s unavoidable, but as hard as it is to accept she had her own fate, which I believe now would have been so much worse if I hadn?t made this decision. If I said I sometimes feel like I failed her it is not because of the decision I made, but because I wonder if we should have had other scans, in 2 or 3 weeks? time, despite the fact they told us there was no hope. In other words, if we, her parents, should have hoped beyond all hope. But as Cantdo said, hopefully the appointment with the consultant in May will put an end to these questions.

Also, I thought a lot about TTC, searched deep inside my heart (sorry, such a cliche) and realised that no matter what, she will not be replaced. If she was here with us and we were trying to have another child, not for a moment would we have any fears about replacing her, so why worry then?

And so I go on and on. I always start a post thinking I?ll just write a few lines and never manage to, it all pours out. I?m sure I?ll have many other meltdowns, in the near and not so near future, but also wanted to share a somehow better day with you, and not only the difficult times.xxxx

Hello everyone,
Cant I hope that you continue to feel optimistic today and that you beat dh at squash! I agree the appointment with the consultant will be a big milestone and probably therapeutic for you both. We are waiting for our date still at the moment. The results won't make any difference to whether we try again or not (i.e. even if the condition was genetic we'll still try) but it does feel like an important stage in our recovery and understanding of what happened.
My ERPC went fine. I was out by yesterday lunchtime and felt pretty groggy yesterday afternoon, but today I'm feeling quite lively. It might be purely psychological but I do feel like I have shed a weight and am looking forward to feeling more myself physically. I know it's a very minor thing in recovering from losing my little boy, but bleeding non stop for the last 7 weeks and feeling so tired and run down made it difficult for me to start trying to feel positive about things. Anyway, today I ordered a fitness DVD (!) so let's hope my new found energy lasts into next week.
I hope everyone else is doing OK. My thoughts are with you x

Hi all

Coffee, so glad you feel a bit more positive. And you are so right. The real trauma for us lies in the fact that we couldnt 'hope beyond all hope' as you put it - we couldn't save our babies. Which isnt a sign of our failure but of something bigger gone wrong.

I remember better days early after the terminations, when the sun shone literally, and I went to the beach (I recommend windy beaches for clearing your head). There are good days and harder days. The good days eventually increase...

Mishtabel, you are so sane. I half want to be you, you always say things that make sense...

Hi everyone else. Hope silence doesnt mean meltdown, but calm.

Crossposted, Moneli. So glad yesterday went okay. I bled a lot after the first termination and recall the relief and lightness when it finally stopped.

Do you need to wait for post-mortem results to see the consultant?

So glad it all went ok, Moneli. I am impressed by your determination (re fitness DVD). I so hope April will be better for all of us.

I have to say the week-end hasn't been great for me, no meltdown, no crying but a terrible sadness. I just miss Silvia so much. I know why I made the choice I made, so the torment of the first days is gone, but I just feel heavy. However, as I said before, there has been a great breakthrough for me in that I know now that I can feel ok sometimes, and maybe laugh, without blaming myself that I start to forget her. I don't want her memory to cause me only pain, after all I really was happy carrying her for almost 6 months, and I think I'll never have such a worry-free pregnancy again. So I am a bit more hopeful than before that things will be ok again, not in the near future but some day.

Have to go know, we're having a cleaning blitz and I abandoned dh to come and have a look here (addicted to MN? Moi?! Never)but am glad your week-ends seem to go reasonably well. Big hug xx

Oh Coffee, I'm sorry you are feeling so sad. It's hard to know what to say as you say most of it beautifully yourself. I do understand how you feel. I miss the 'worry free' pregnancy I had before things went wrong (I even knitted a christmas stocking for this year for our little boy who would have been almost 6 months by then...) We will never have that innocence again. Silvia was your first pregnancy and first baby so I think this must make things especially difficult. But when you are ready you will try again and things will be OK and Silvia will always, always be your first baby and a part of your family, no matter what other little ones come along.

Cant, yes, we're waiting for the PM results before our consultancy appt.

Love to everyone else too x

Good morning ladies,

Moneli, I hope you'll get the PM results soon, did they give you an approximate date? The consultant told us it might take about 3 months, and indeed we won't know anything until mid-May. It seems to vary though, depending in which area you live. You are right, it is a big milestone and it can't come soon enough.We too are determined to try again, even if the cause was genetic (unless it's really, really bad), but we were also told it might have been a virus, so I just want to make sure I'm not infected or anything before trying again.

Cantdo, I hope you are ok and coping with the worry, you sound so strong. It must be nerve wracking but every day is bringing you closer to meeting the little one.

Have a good week everyone, lots of love xxxx

I have posted on here before but never quite found a topic that best matches my situation. 4 years ago at 20 wks into first pregnancy I was told that my baby had a major heart abnormality and was told about operations that could be done followed closely by the offer of a termination - which was what we had at 24weeks. We had a little boy and laid him to rest at our local churchyard, but even sat here typing this now I am in tears.. I know its four years on and I should be getting on with things which to a certain extent I do - I have since had two boys but this is always niggling away at me - the guilt and the what ifs. On a good day I think we did what we did as it was best for our baby and for us at that point in time. However on a bad day its pretty much like this - guilt and what ifs? Does this rambling make sense to anybody?

Hi Justa, welcome back! Sorry to hear you?ve had a tough month, I hope you are better now?

Welcome to you too Blondie, though I?m sorry we meet on such a thread. I?m not sure I know what to say, I lost my baby girl Silvia 6 weeks ago tomorrow so I have just started my own journey through grief. I terminated because of severe brain abnormalities discovered at the 21-week scan, so I think there is a certain similarity between our stories, in that our babies were not what they call ?incompatible with life?. However, I do think there WAS incompatibility with life, the way I look at it is that my baby would have merely existed, not lived.

Your baby boy would have suffered so much, and by making this terrible decision you chose not to let him be in pain, even if this means you are now suffering yourself. I doubt you would have been offered the option of terminating if the problems with your baby?s heart weren?t really bad. This is what was pointed out to me here when I was feeling so guilty about the decision I had made, and it helped me a lot.

Even though I have no other child except Silvia, I can perfectly understand your 2 boys cannot replace the baby you lost. I think many people expect this ? I lost count of how many times my dh and I were told ?you?re young, you can try again?, as if this wipes out the fact that we lost a child. It doesn?t mean you love your boys less, it just means they are different to the baby you lost.

Guilt can be such a destructive feeling and I think for us it is born out of the fact that there is this huge discrepancy between what we really wanted and needed (to give birth to a baby and above all protect our baby) and reality. But really, you acted out of love, and love in our case meant that we had to let our babies go. I too feel guilt sometimes, when I have a bad day and the rawness comes back. I ask myself then if I shouldn?t have hung on to my baby no matter what. But if I had done this, she would have suffered and not been able to live a decent life. It is very painful to remember her like I do, but I think I would choose this anytime over the image of her suffering. It doesn?t make the anger at the unfairness of it all go away, it just helps me cope with the guilt.

I wish I could say something that would take at least a little bit of your pain away... You?ve come to the right place though xxxx

Hi everyone.
Haven't been able to get online very much, and haven't had time enough to read or post....was in a very dark place 3 weeks ago when i last posted, and much has happened since then, including a very positive genetics consultation.
i hope everyone is managing ok, as best any of us can.
we move to scotland on friday, and once i have broadband set up will be able to post again.
with love

Hi everyone.

Blondie, welcome. I am sorry to hear about your loss at 24 weeks. And I am not surprised that the guilt and sorrow never quite go away. I'm now 17 months on from my first termination and I still feel shocked when I think what I did. Not because I regret it - I just still wish it hadn't had to happen. Part of what we mourn, I think, is a loss of innocence and belief that things will be okay. And also coupled with the shock that doesnt go away that we ended our babies' lives, is the recognition that we have also got on with things, carried on -and that is both right and shocking to me somehow.

What helps me is airing these thoughts here. This thread has literally been a lifeline to me - it didnt exist after my first termination, but after my second (I have terminated twice, at 12 and 20 weeks, for different fatal conditions) I did, and it has carried me through.

Coffee, your voice is changing- you sound so much calmer than you did; the sadness is still there, of course, but the rawness is slowly ebbing. You're doing so well. I am sure that your results won't show a genetic condition - 'just' bad luck - of course it doesn't make that much difference to the panic you will feel in future pregnancies but as you say you will get there. You've already come a long way.

Babylily, good to hear from you and good the genetic consultation was good. Look forward to hearing more.

Justa, have missed you! Sorry it has been a tough month. Grief is so hard to live through, and with three little ones too... please do share with us what has been going on for you if you feel up to it...

Not much new from here, other than I am drifting towards C-section date and sorting out practical stuff, finally. Still having wobbles but I am doing okay. We are all so much stronger than we think...

Tree, are you anywhere around? are you okay? and Bee, Bezzy, Viv, Gina, Mrs BG, thinking of you all...

Hello ladies.
It is really 'comforting' to hear that my feelings with my loss 10 days ago and my loss last year aren't completely insane or irrational (as a friend once told me). I have tried to read as much as the thread as i can and i have felt many of your feelings before. Babylilly, i read your early posts and i felt the same last year and i am determined not to go back there after loosing my baby boy 10 days ago. I hope you are in a better place now hun.Sending supportive hugs your way.
We decided to go away for the weekend and on the whole it was a good weekned. I did have a few weak moments on saturday. I just felt so sad, everywhere i looked there were pg women with bumps, a big bump i deperately want. However Dh and Ds and i had a few laughs and enjoyed spending time together.
I went into work today, although school is shut for easter but i have made a real effort to get out more. I shut myself away last year and lost contact with people and lost loads of self confidence.

I am not sure if this post makes sense but i wanted to chat i suppose. I hope you are all ok and having a good day.