Talk : Antenatal support thread for women who have chosen to terminate V

[treedelivery]

Welcome to the 5th thread.

An amazing day to begin a new journey together. The thread babies are arriving and we take this as a positive nod from the great karma controller - whoever and whatever that may be.

Good luck to our thread, to the souls who read, those who post, those who drop in to learn and hold hands.

Our cyber bench is a supportive place, we sit outside hospitals as strong but scared women go to ride their wave. We huddle in our cottage when the weather is bleak, stormy or biting cold.

When the sun shines on us we share stories of real life, gain strength and giggle together in times of warm weather.

Allways, there are no words I can find, it's so terribly sad and unfair. All I can wish you is a meaningful day with your husband and Rose. As Cantdo said, if you have any questions about tomorrow just ask. We'll be thinking about you and your DH tomorrow and try to hold your hand as much as we can.

Babylily, you must be so relieved now, although of course very sad. I'm glad you managed to find out about your baby boy and name him, Isaac is indeed a lovely name.

I went to the hospital yesterday and talked to the chaplain, and now have a much better idea what to expect at a funeral/cremation. She also gave us a draft order of service, and we will add something ourselves, which she will read then. We're still hesitating between a burial or cremation - or rather I am, DH would prefer a burial. I am very anxious at the thought of both, but it's burials I've always had a big problem with ever since I was a child. Not something I can fully explain and I do feel a bit silly about it. If I can get over this, I think I would prefer a burial as well, as there is something comforting in the thought my baby is still somewhere in this world.

On the other hand, it's very unlikely that we?ll live here all our lives, we might relocate, who knows what comes up in the future? And in this case I would prefer a cremation, as I don't know how I could leave my baby behind, I would feel like I betrayed her.

I'm so aware that I'm still clinging to the idea of her as being present in her physical body, whereas it would make much more sense to think of her as being a bit everywhere, but maybe this is just because I lost her so recently.

I just wish I could find some clarity, a more coherent way of thinking about all this, a wiser approach.

It's good we have some time to think about it and there'll be no rush to make a decision. God, what a way to conquer my "funeral phobia", isn?t it ironic?!

Anyway, to end with a practical question: for those of you who had this, how long did it take for the post mortem results to come back? Our consultant did say about 3 months, but other people at the hospital seemed to think it might take even more, and I was wondering how long we will have to live in limbo.

I'd better stop now and try to do some work, much love to everyone xx

Allways, I hope you and DH get to share some special moments today while your darling little Rose is still with you. I wish you both strength and peace for tomorrow. Our hearts will be with you both. I will stop now, as words cannot express the sorrow I feel for you xxxx

Dear Allways, just a practical thought which crossed my mind now, sorry if you already know this but I am so happy I remembered on the day. My midwife wouldn't have offered me any pills to stop my milk coming in if I hadn't asked for them. Just remember to ask before leaving hospital, in case they forget to give them to you.

I really wish I could find some comforting words, but there aren't any now, just a good thought for you and your husband tomorrow. Lots of love, xx

Coffee, you sound very coherent to me. Your loss is so very recent, the pain is so raw.

3 months seems like a very long time to wait for results. I guess no one will be able to give you a definitive answer, but I hope it is sooner and the results give you the answers you need.

We are opting for a cremation, as that is what our preferred cemetery does.

As for milk, I've decided not to stop it coming in. I'm not doing it for martyrdom, but rather to fulfil my need to know how it would feel. You see, Rose is an IVF baby and it took 7 years to conceive her and her twin. We may not get another chance at this and I feel I must experience everything pregnancy has to offer.

I completely understand and it makes perfect sense. You are such a brave lady Allways and I do hope there will some day be light at the end of this long tunnel.

Have really just skim read as usual but wanted to say to Always how sorry I am - it seems extra unfair to go through the pain of infertility and then this. And with both twins. Will be thinking of you tomorrow.

And Babylily, Isaac is a lovely name. My mum had 5 second trimester miscarriages with me in the middle; they were involved in the research which discovered the situation with the male chromosomes that you're talking about. Obviously 40 years ago there were no scans and no way of telling if the pg was viable until she miscarried. She is really bitter and I am so determined not to be. It also completely blighted the first 8 years of my life. They went on to adopt my bro and sis but none of us ever really got over it.

On a more positive note (positive not being my strong point at the moment...) if you did decide you wanted to concieve again (I know you have some fertility problems, but forgive me, can't remember what they are) you could have PGD,(actually think it's called somthing else in this case, maybe just gender selection) where you could have IVF and they would select only female embryos to replace. I sound like I'm obsessed by infertilty but there are things you can do these days.

Well I'm lurking terribly, am in a bad place mentally, due date is next week, viability scan is also next week, the two things together are frying my poor head. ALso withdrawing from anti-ds as am convinced they are what caused our heart problem - have been on them for 12 years and timing not the best as can't tell what is down to the due date, what is down to anxiery about the scan and what is plain old withdrawal.

Love to everyone else as always. xxx

Allways, I just wanted to say I will be thinking of you tomorrow. I understand about the milk - mine came in too, and it wasn't painful, just kept leaking and showing my body was registering the loss. You really don't deserve what has happened to you and you have so much love for Rose that it shines through. FWIW, the day I gave birth to my 20 week old (who was stillborn) was less harrowing for me than the day of the scan revealing that she couldnt ever live - there was the connection there with my baby too, and the special moment of meeting her, and you will have that with Rose, too.

Coffee, I had a postmortem on the first lost baby. It didnt take 3 months - more like two, but actually less than two. Though once they released the baby's body, it took a while for the consultant apptment to come through to get the results because Christmas got in the way.

Peanut, your comments about your childhood are interesting. I have been in danger of becoming embittered over all this. I can see how your mum ended up like that - and how it could damage her children. I didnt know anti-depressants were dangerous in pregnancy - but I also would be anxious about taking them, so I get why you've come off them. It will be hard though - good luck. Good luck too with impending due date and viability scan. Keep us posted.

Hi everyone else....

Can'tdo, you;ve managed to say what i wanted to say to Allways but couldn't quite phrase it. Giving birth - as that's what it was - to our poor lost baby wasn't a traumatic experience for me either, it was somehow wonderful meeting him and I remember the night before waking frequently and feeling him move inside me and almost looking forward to it. Which sounds very strange. But I suppose it's like when someone who's terminally ill dies - there's a sense of release.

Certainly didn;t compare to the scan.

Wasn't sure if I should post about my mum's bitterness and how it has affected me (undoubtedly has something to do with 12 years on Prozac...) in case it worried anyone but it was 40 years ago, things are so different now in terms of awareness of the importance of grieving, counselling, even down to having burial ceremonies etc for all the lost babies. PLus the fact that we're posting on here however intermittently means we're offloading and dealing with it. We're allowed to acknowledge it - I don't think my mum ever was really. She certainly wouldn't have been allowed to be with her lost babies, take photos of them, have a grave to visit etc and I'm sure that's why it never really resloved itself.

Dear Allways
I am so very moved by your words, by your so very tangible love for your baby, by your dignity and privacy, by the love that you have grown between you and your DH throughout all this. I do not know how to say goodbye to a much, much loved and wanted baby. I just do not know. But I do know that it is not about MILs or mothers or insensitive friends or even any of us here.
It is your time with Rose and your husband that matters and is precious.
I wish you so much love.
I wish you strength and I hope that out of tomorrow come some precious moments too. They will matter enormously and I know that others here have suggested ways to mark the day, mark her little life.
I understand your desire to allow the milk to come; it is her milk and a tribute to her life.
Each moment will be both hard and beautiful.
With much love
Bee xxx

Dear Allways, thinking of you and your DH tonight and tomorrow. Hide away as much as you need and take this precious time for yourselves and Rose.

I agree with Can't (and Peanuthead) that the scan showing the problems was really where I felt I 'lost' my DD; we shed many tears when she was born but it was because we were saying goodbye. We had her blessed and spent time with her - the hospital staff were very caring and supportive.

Just can't find the words to say. xxxx

And Peanuthead - I'm so sorry to hear of your mum's situation, how traumatic for her; and how sad that it affected you and your brother and sister. As you say, we are so much better supported now - the fact that the hospital actually arranged a funeral for DD came as a surprise to me, but it really did help us to say goodbye (along with all the advice and support we were given here).

Really hope all goes well for you next week; two very difficult dates for different reasons. I also 'get' why you'd want to come off pills, are you able to take anything else more natural to help manage feelings while you do that? Not that I know what you'd take or whether THAT would be safe in pregnancy... but perhaps chamomile teas and lavender oil would be OK and help a little?

Sorry ladies, not had time to read the threads over the past week. I just popped in quickly to pass a nugget on to the new mums in the UK..... Lins, Shangrilla et al......

This may have been posted elsewhere on Mumsnet but I subscribe to the newsletter at moneysavingexpert.com and this just came through. Asda are selling 24 nappies for Newborns for £1.

forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=2280327

Don't mean to be insensitive to those who have recently suffered losses but I've had so much support from the ladies who've given us hope by going on to have healthy pregnancies that I just wanted to pass this on to them.

Allways, just in case you're up to reading, I was thinking of your daughters name today. Needless to say I love the name, as my daughter is Bella Rose. One of the reasons I chose it was because I have loved Bette Midlers 'The Rose' since I was a young girl. I think the lyrics of the song have meaning for both our girls and I will always think of your little Rose also when I hear the song now. Thinking of you xxx

Hello Kittens, thinking of you also xxx

I too am thinking of you Allways.
Know, in fact, that we all are.
Bee xxx

I second Bee, I suspect that is why the thread is so quiet, we're all aware of what you're going through and we're all thinking of you. XX

Indeed Allways, all our thoughts are with you and your DH. I think Peanuthead is right, we?re just lost for words at the moment. xx

Much love to everyone, and especially Allways and your DH. The sun is shining for Rose xxx

Unable to sleep, listening to iPod, 'Beautiful in my eyes' just played. My heart aches for you Always xxx

Much love to you too dear Bezz xxx

Lots of love for Eulalia as well tomorrow, we'll be thinking of you. Wishing you a peaceful day xx

Allways, I am thinking of you and your beautiful girl, indeed your beautiful girls.

Eulalia, I will think of you too tomorrow - thanks Coffee for remembering.

I agree with Justa that how we remember our little ones will change. It already has changed for me in such a short time. I remember hating leaving her at the hospital when I came out - almost wanting to stay to look after her - and having to detach myself violently because I also wanted to come back to be with my toddler.

Something Bee suggested to someone else a little while ago makes sense to me: that we use this thread as a tribute to our babies, print it out and keep the evidence of how raw we were and how much we and others cared. I like to imagine this thread as a commemmoration as well as a space of mutual support.

I am thinking of you all, all in different emotional and physical spaces, and particularly Allways and Rose.

What a beautiful message Justa. It is a hard, hard journey to make isn't it? I know that you know and are on the journey yourself.
I am thinking of you Allways; I hope you are in the arms of your loving man tonight.
Much love to you all
bee xxx

Thank you Justa for taking some time to help me with my grief while you are grieving too . I guess in a way I'm so attached to her little body because it is the only memory I have of her, this and the kicks (how I loved them) and some scan pictures.

Cantdo, this thread is indeed a commemoration. Every time I am reading Silvia's name written down by one of you, I have tears in my eyes.

Peanuthead, I really hope you will be ok without the antidepressants. I don't think anyone could not be anxious under the circumstances (due date and viability scan approaching), and we'll all be keeping our fingers crossed for you next week.

Wishing you all a peaceful evening. I realise I've been using this word (peaceful) so much lately... xx

Good evening to you Coffee
You sound calmer my dear and sane and 'with us'. I have always felt that this thread is a tribute to my lost babies. I feel so passionately about this space that we have all created.
Peace is, I hope, what we have given to our babies, even if it is not what we have for ourselves at all times.
I wish we were truly in our cyber cottage now. I feel tonight could be one of those evenings when we could benefit from gentle cheer and kindness and female companionship.
Glad you are still here and that we offer the support that you need.
Bee xxxxxx

Eulalia, accidently posted quick message to you on other thread. Anyway, just wanting you to know I'm thinking of you xxx