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support thread for women who have chosen to terminate IV

998 replies

bezzyk · 20/10/2009 16:33

Hello ladies old and new.

Here's hoping this thread brings better luck and much happiness.

Lots of love

BK xx

OP posts:
bezzyk · 21/11/2009 08:56

What a lovely post to read first thing MrsBG! Thanks for that, has put me in a positive mood.

Bee, so sorry to hear about the troubles in your paradise. So very unsettling when something like that happens so close to your safe domain. You're the best mother to your kids, and I'm positive they're nowhere near being involved in these troubles.

Tree I KNOW that cake tin. I NEED it too. In fact I think Can't and I have discussed it by email in the past....

I baked a cheesecake yesterday - a la Cantdothisagain - (something going on in this thread, we're all baking?!) to take to a friends that we're visiting later for lunch. Looks amazing. Took all my strength to not start on it last night, but figured not acceptable to take half eaten cake to friend. Am now panicked as to how I'll be able to bring the remains home with me later (there's no way we'll finish it all), not really acceptable, is it?

Suggestions welcome!

BK x

OP posts:
Cantdothisagain · 21/11/2009 09:20

I WANT THAT CAKETIN TOO!!!!! I have a butterfly one from Lakeland, and if I ever have a boy I want the train one, but I REALLY REALLY want that cupcake cake tin.

Mrs BGirl, you write so well. You will be okay on your due date (today?), you will. The anticipation is worse than the reality. And you have gone through the worst of the agony anyway.

Also what you say to Bez is so true. Capt C is clearly self-protecting; he did after the termination, and he came round. Typical man that it takes a bit of time though

I love the park bench analogy. I would be such a good old gossipy woman, with my stick, tut-tutting at the youth of today.

busierbee · 21/11/2009 13:07

Morning gossipy old biddies on the bench
I love that analogy too Mrs BG. Is perfect.
Bezz - am sure Mrs BG is correct that it is a stage, a critical part of recovery for Capt C. I think they tend to deal with it more by rational thought and plans of action. We tend to internalise and agonise and what if and why me and what would have been.
I have had a bad 24 hours of this too. I think the baking seems to be a sign that we are all trying to ward off the gloom and sorrow and worry and panic. For me, it started with working with the DS boy, then an article about a new drug to improve the memory processing of people with DS. Finally the guitar teacher telling me he teaches a boy with it too. And this alternative life, the parallel world where I did choose to keep the baby, the first one, flashes past me and I can almost see the child that would have been. And i consider the other life, and know we would have managed and loved him or her. The more time passes, the more I learn, the more confused I am. But alongside this I confess I hold back from attending the embryo screening for fear of having a baby with worse disability and quality of life. It is truly very painful. And I know you all know this too.
As if the initial diagnosis, loss of innocence, heartache is not enough; there is intermittent pain and guilt to process. Who would have known when we all tried to make a baby with a loved one that the road would be so rocky?
I think it is important to remember that we made those decisions in good faith, after much deep soul searching and information gathering and talking. That we are good people - I know you all are. And there is no rationalising why it happened. Each little conception has its own route; some destined for short lives. It is all still so raw and recent.
When I look back on the Bee I was post separation I can see a fragile Bee. In trauma. In pain. And it felt like it was part of me. That I would never be buzzy Bee again. Time moves things on. Other things matter more. New people to be loved. Especially for you pregnant ones.
Am off to sort, tidy, launder and eat yesterday's slightly stale but yummy cakes.
So would love to be walking on a beach with you all - with tea and cake on way home.
hugs and kisses
Lovely to hear from you MRs BG - and all of you.

pelvicflawed · 21/11/2009 18:28

Oh Bee its PF here - just wanted to say how wonderfully you say things and how you manage in a few lines make me relise I'm not the only one who has these thoughts - only you manage to sum it all up so well in words which I find so hard.

Love to you all.

PF

busierbee · 21/11/2009 19:37

Ahh hello PF my dear.
Boy you have been through the mill too and I know that you know what I am trying to express too well.
It is so very tough to consider putting oneself through potentially more terribleness isn't it?
Wishing you all a soothing Saturday evening.
I have the fire lit- but it is ridiculously smokey - will bring on an asthma attack at this rate. One small glass of sherry consumed, LM in kitchen making curry and me online agonising over wallpaper as distraction from a sad wave for the babies. All of them in fact, not just mine.
Just so very peculiar that for so many women (me included once upon a while ago) baby making is deliciously innocent and miraculous and special. And for others it is a living nightmare. To you pregnant ones; I hope you are able to have some tiny bit of enjoyment and peace. I know it is hard.
Thinking of you Lins - my lovely friend.
kisses

shangrila · 22/11/2009 06:17

Hello All

I haven't been around in an eternity as I have been totally stricken by the most appalling bout of what my midwife thinks is ante natal depression. I have been logging on, reading your stories and willing you on through cyberspace - but completely unable to post anything. I do appreciate that life has been tougher than tough this last month or so for many of you. Please don't take my silence as a lack of concern, I have been travelling the road with you, although somewhat mutely.

Big hellos and welcomes for new ladies. We all come here from a variety of tragedies and bond and laugh over both the big and small things. Massive congratulations to the newly renamed Mrs BG on your marriage and to Katerina - I hope the ride is smooth for you. Keep in touch, if you can. (I'm a fine one to make such a request!)

Many of us in a state of turmoil at the moment, as befits the dismal time of year. I'm thinking particularly of Bee, Eulalia, Bezzy and the many others reflecting on the past and pondering what the future holds. I believe that we all do what we do with the heaviest of hearts but the best of intentions. I can't recall which wise woman here said it, but I find revisiting the awful scenario of initial diagnosis helpful here. It's not something I am usually keen to ponder on but it does help to remind me how I felt way back when and gives me some perspective. Won't work for everyone, I know and there will be different ways of reaching acceptance for us all. Hugs to you all. I would bake you a virtual cake, but despite owning all the Nigella books, they are really just window dressing and I couldn't tell the difference between frosting and frangipane (or whatever). Now give me a slab of glistening fresh fish, however bizarre and ugly, and that's quite another matter. But maybe not as comforting.

Hello to Justa and Lins, both getting close now. I hope that you have either managed to visit your dad, Justa or have reached some sort of visiting arrangement that works for all the family. Hope you manage to enjoy your birthday too. Mine was last week and we celebrated in a very low key sort of way. Lovely news on scan Lins. Reassurance scans are great - after the event, aren't they? But the run up is sheer torture. But not long now. I hope the counselling is doing its job and helping to ease you through a difficult time.

Fond hellos to Cantdo and Tree, as ever. And Mishta - hope all is grand with you.

I start my mat leave in a couple of weeks, so am hoping that this will free me up all the more for regular mumsnetting. Writer's block/anxiety permitting! Had my 30 week scan last week and all seems fine although my low-lying placenta isn't playing ball and the dreaded section is now a probability. They will rescan me at 36 weeks for one last try, but I'm not holding out for much. Thanks to DH's blood test result, the dreaded antibody issue which I posted about last time I was here is nowhere near the issue that it could be. A tremendous relief. This is turning out to be one hell of a ride. Seems so ungrateful to say I'm hating it, but I am. One day at a time.

My love to you all. Off for family celebrations today. Will make my amateurish report on the cake later on in the week. xxxx

busierbee · 22/11/2009 11:13

Dearest Shangrila
How very lovely to hear from you my dear. I think of you often and know that silence for you often indicates a low feeling. For you and Lins both, this journey is most painful and do not feel that is inappropriate to share with us here. I think we can all truly imagine and identify with the hell of being pregnant after so much loss and trauma. There is no space in one's heart or soul for joy or hope or pleasure. Fear and panic and anxiety and how comes and what ifs and why nots are big. So sorry to hear about your depression - and wish that talking here could be a tonic for you. Maybe when you are on maternity leave, we can gently hold your hand and listen and nod?
I do not think any of you pregnant ones will rest until the child is safely delivered here; there will be much collective sighs of relief and tears of joy when it comes.
Please do not feel you must hide your discomfort from those who are not pregnant. I am under no illusion that pregnancy is some miracle cure for my pain. Indeed it is why I am so ambivalent about trying. As you well know yourself. This pregnancy has been so tiring for you. Rest and meditation.

You and Justa and Lins - all soon. It makes me teary to think of it.

Pleased you are reading here still Shangrilala - do you remember when you first posted in response to my first agonising thread?
On the issue of reliving that initial diagnosis - the very first one - I think you are on to something there Shangrila.
I am able to be so frank and open up my inner self, expose myself to all of you on everything that has happened in the smallest of details. I NEED to almost.
But that initial time? There was a breaking of myself. There was some ruination of a very precious, private, instinctive space in my heart and soul that has changed me so very fundamentally. I can not look at it. I can not face it.
And just maybe, what you and Lins and other women in your situation are dealing with now, why it is so acutely joyless and agonising and ante-natal depression making, is you ARE FACING IT. You have your faces shoved up against all that spoiling of the way things are supposed to be. You can not hide from it when you are carrying a child. Because maybe, just maybe, you may have to go through such horror again.
How can you NOT be depressed Shangrila?
Sorry is this too harsh for Sunday morning?
The fine balance between wanting a precious new baby to demonstrate your love and complete your family and the fear and horror of potential sorrow is acutely hard to manage.
So; well done honey for facing it at all.
Well done for being strong -as you undoubtedly are.
Well done for talking here.
Hang on tight.
We are cheering you on.
Biggest of hugs and squeezes and friendship down the M4 to you
Bee xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

busierbee · 22/11/2009 21:40

Oh golly- is all very quiet here.
I am worried that my post this morning may be interpeted as negative - is not at all what was trying to say. Was trying to express the honest fear and confusion that I imagine you must be feeling. Not that the baby will not be okay. Only that for you, for us, it is impossible to believe that it will. That is all.
I was just remembering that the reassuring words of other people when I was pregnant felt.. empty. That I wanted the recognition that they did not know it would be okay.
All I mean is I wish you well, you are nearly there. You have had untold scans and we must take reassurance from the medical profession. They know when things are not good. Things are fine!
Wishing you well Shangrila and if I have upset you, I sincerely apologise.
Bee x

bezzyk · 22/11/2009 21:49

Bee, am positive no offence caused. Everyone knows just how supportive you are.

Shangrila. So lovely to hear from you. Not long to go now, hopefully you'll be feeling much better once you have your lovely, healthy babe in your arms.

I'm exhausted. Mentally.

I think, ponder, contemplate all day and all night. Literally, I dream about my issues too. There's no escaping. So tiring. My kingdom for a crystal ball.

BK x

OP posts:
busierbee · 22/11/2009 22:19

Hello Bezzy my love
God it just tortures doesn't it?
It goes around for me too. Sometimes I think i have made a resolution; accepted a decision. Then, like the end of last week, certain events will trigger more agony.
Can you set yourself a little mental holiday?
Having been pregnant three times in one year myself, i can say it is truly tiring. You need to look after yourself Bezz. Could you maybe focus on Christmas, baking, buying a sweet Christmassy frock for mini- Bezz, drink sherry, distract yourself. And try again in the new year? Are you getting on okay with the Captain? I hope so.

Maybe take the higher dose FA - can do no harm?
I do not know how to clear the head.
I think we need to grieve.
I think mine comes in waves as I have a demanding job and the big kids; so cannot allow myself to feel it. When it comes... bam. It knocks me over. It sounds like that for Eulalia too.

I am sorry you are to worn out honey.
I wish there was a way to soothe - maybe back to some Tree therapy -the blankets, the crap movies, the chocolate.
Wish we were nearer.
hugs
Bee x

treedelivery · 22/11/2009 23:35

Hi,

Have read the thread. What a wave of deep emotion we are being buffered about on.
I am just in from a weekend away and must unpack/iron uniforms/build packed lunch form old bread and water. I'll be back to hold hands though, and am always sending the vibes you need. You're never far away form my thoughts, you lot. 'The thread' as you are all known in my mind. And in various made up guises in my head, as individuals. Bee will always have thick glossy honey hair [of course] and perfectly fitted and flattering to die for jeans on, with beautiful boots. Can't is dark haired and ala Courtney Cox [but less scrawny and healthier looking]...I am getting sidetracked...

x

bezzyk · 23/11/2009 08:35

Morning all, thanks for your lovely response (as always) Bee. Yep, have been doing as you said and am obsessed with Christmas. Made my Nigella Christmas puds yesterday, shopping virtually finished, written my Christmas card list, pondered my Nigella Christmas book...hmm...still have another months worth of activities to plan.

Going to Bicester Village with a friend on Wed, am looking forward to that...have been promised discounted Molton Brown?!?! hopefully not just an urban handsoap myth. Promise not to bore you with more soap stories.

There was a funny side to one of my dreams actually....

Friend is pregnant (one of the hundreds that are) she's due in a couple of weeks. I dreamt she was expecting twins (she's not). Anyway, sent her a text yesterday morning to tell her this, as thought she'd find it funny. Accidentally sent text to her landline.

Her phone rang, she answered it, and got an electronic voice telling her 'I dreamt you were pregnant with twins last night'!!! How spooky!

How are our newbies getting on? Has the sun peeked out at all?

BK xxx

OP posts:
shangrila · 23/11/2009 11:38

Oh goodness Bee - offence, you? Never! You are one of the handful of people on this earth who I am 100% sure will understand, regardless. Your thoughts, as always, are welcomed and because of our unhappy parallels, are truly insightful. It was lovely beyond words to come back to Mumsnet this morning and read your response to my post. And look - here I am, posting freely again! Thank you so much, lovely.

And Bezzy. So sorry to hear of the exhaustion. Sometimes it is all too much, I know. Particularly at the moment, everyone at work, in life in general is getting extra jollied up, in anticipation of holidays etc etc. Puts an additional stress on you, if you are not feeling the slightest bit inclined to plan for general heartiness and bonhomie. I agree with Bee, it's best not to fight it, but to succumb to the feeling, allow yourself to just be, but treat and pander to your every whim and inclination to bake along the way. And wherever possible, ditch the pressure. Says she - the queen of anxiety! Enjoy Bicester. It's a real guilty pleasure of mine and annoyingly just slightly too far for a day trip for us. Do they still have Petit Bateau and Donna Karan? Swoon.

Hi Tree. In your mind's eye, can I be beautiful beyond words? And thin? And not at all superficial? Cheers!

Good to be back. Love to all.

busierbee · 23/11/2009 13:01

Ha! Tree - my hair is so far removed from your imaginary vision of my locks.
And my jeans? Sadly from the Gap and sagging around the arse like a teenaged boy. But not in a good way. I have no bum anymore. I would love a big juicy, squeezy, sexy momma's bottom! Anyone got one I could have?
Just back from a quick dash around H and M for seventeen year old girl's birthday. Toot, toot and more toot. Anyone for a royal blue sequinned boob tube?
Bezzy? You could wear it whilst baking - Nigella style? That may get Captain C in the mood for LURVE.
Hello Shangrilala - glad no offence caused. I suddenly worried had been too graphic in my identification with the painful thoughts and somehow given life to them rather than soothed.
Off to bake.
Bee xx

busierbee · 23/11/2009 13:04

Bezz - what is on the menu today honey?
I am about to dash orf two loaves of banana bread as have a bowlful of sinister looking ones - on the turn. You know how it is with bananas. Think may add cherries to brighten the day.
Wish was in Jigsaw buying a party dress for ME. Out on Friday with glam university friends and am sad Cinderella type frockless Bee. Maybe will just twinkle my bumble bee wings and stun them that way.

bezzyk · 23/11/2009 17:24

No culinary delights today Bee, I'm afraid. Just dinner prepared and ready to go into the oven.

Good to see you posting again Shangrila, hope you're ok. Maybe we should organise a rendezvous while you're on maternity leave? Cuppa somewhere nice? I can then relay back to Tree what you really look like

May I add >>smug emoticon

OP posts:
treedelivery · 23/11/2009 22:54

Sorry to be quiet - not feeling well. x

busierbee · 23/11/2009 23:35

Oh poor Treelette.
Sorry to hear you not well honey.
Just to distract you; I have just had one almighty row with my lodger/au pair. I have never ever rowed with a woman in my entire life - not in such a bewildering way.
LM is away and am now convinced she is going to come and get me in my sleep. Ergo, I am on the safe thread.
Feel shaken and upset and pushed to lose my temper with her. How dare she create such upset in my already troubled soul?
Crazy American with absolutely no boundaries whatso; she is amoeba-like in her lack of boundaries. She is leaving. Not soon enough for me. I do not want the energy channels in my house clogged up by her toxic emotional state.
But now of course have nobody to take my boys to school and need to get someone sorted for post Christmas. God the stress of managing one's staff! Except she has absolutely no respect at all - told me I had mood swings! I do! HEllO. I have lost three babies and I will have as many mood swings in my own kitchen as I bloody well like.
Jeez.
Sorry - needed to get it off chest.

Mishta · 24/11/2009 01:59

Hello all, going to try to make this a quick one as I have a resume and application letter to write ( and hand in tomorrow) so that I have a permanent job to come back to post maternity leave. Am currently on a contract that runs out in February.

Bee, I read your post to Shangrila yesterday and thought it was lovely. That is what is so good about this thread, people GET you. I am so over my MIL stating with a puzzled expression "I can't understand why your not excited, your having a baby!" I have tried to explain that perhaps if she'd been through what I had, she would understand. But she thinks cause I've got the 'all clear' my worries are over. But, like you said, I won't feel safe til our little one is here. Until then I have pretty much accepted that I will be stressed, moody, etc. I hope you are going okay. You seem to be in touch with your feelings, which is always a good start.

Shangrila, I'm sorry about your depression but glad you are feeling better today (yesterday?). Although i'm not
depressed as such, I do have many low times too. This makes me feel ungrateful, because after all - I'm having a baby! But honestly I think it's all just the constant worry - it's bound to do something to our psyche. Rock on the next 8 weeks and 2 days (for me anyway - planned caeser by my request). I go on maternity leave 21 Dec, and although I'm looking forward to it, work is one place I feel most 'normal'. I think it's cause I am preoccupied with other peoples problems there, and less focused on my own. Take care

Eulalia, I can empathize with your doubts. I didn't wait for the 20 week heart scan. We were going to, that was our plan, but by 17 weeks, after 4 weeks of indecision, I just couldn't handle the seesaw of emotions anymore. I would read something positive about DS one day, and feel I wanted to have the baby, then I would read or hear about something devastating (like a 3 year old with DS and heart issues so bad that she had never left hospital) I knew I could handle whatever came my way, but I also knew my decision would affect the rest of my family. A few months after the termination, I kind of broke down one night after a recording of the babies heartbeat came through on my iPod - it was accidently on my playlist. I was all of a sudden positive that I had done the wrong thing and now couldn't change it. I had chosen to stop that heartbeat, and what if he was to become the best thing to ever happen to our family? What if his issues were all mild? Anyway, following that, I did what these wise women have said, went back to when I was making the decision, and realised I had not made it lightly, and that I had done the best thing I knew what to do with the information I had at the time. If I had have had a crystal ball and could see how things may have turned out, it might have been different. But I didn't, and fear of the unknown was too much for me. Since then I have been at peace with the decision, I just find it sad that I, or any of us, are put into the position of having to make that kind of awful decision at all. You take care also

Anyway, I made the move (houses) and am so glad it's over! I did not realise how much junk we accumulated over the years. The house we are renting is gorgeous, it has a pool which is lucky as the heat here has been shocking. One major flaw - it is on the market and if it sells our lease is up on 28 Jan - one week after baby will be born. Fingers crosses it doesn't sell. And poor Lins - if I am correct your moving the 28th? I hope you have lots of help. Even then it's a horrible job. Will be thinking of you!

Speaking of jobs, must get back to resume or I won't have one. Thinking of you all, and hello to the newcomers xxxxx

Mishta · 24/11/2009 02:15

So much for the quick post (see below), sorry

Forgot to say 'congrats' to BG for your wedding. Loved what you did re: confetti - very thoughtful and creative!

And Bee, sorry about your troubles with your lodger - glad she wasn't an Aussie!

Xx

justabouttoturn35 · 24/11/2009 09:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

busierbee · 24/11/2009 09:36

Very big cross pacific wave to Mishta (ooh, hang on - is Australia on the other side of the Pacific?!)
Very funny your lonnngggg, short post Mishta - the things we do to avoid filling out job applications. Lovely to hear from you - you do sound so resilient; given that you have moved home, are heavily pregnant, have a heavy going job, may have to move again etc. Golly. Us women.
Wishing you so much strength and gentleness in equal measures - another thread baby. I like them being here.
Dearest Justa - complained about what exactly about you? That you are compassionate and supportive? Is it this thread that they object to in particular? Shocking if so. I am glad you are here my love. The bleeding sounds troubling for you - being carted off the hospital and medicalised is not what you need right now. You should be lying prone on sofa with cake and hot chocolate being drip fed in. (Okay with the boys climbing over you too).
Re my dreadful lodger - have got the most terrible waves of anxiety and stress now. Can not bear to fall out with people; particularly at the moment. She is a totally unhinged individual; in a former life I may well have tried to counsel and support her. But I have much clearer boundaries now and know what I need to focus on. I have politely and coldly given her a month's notice. I know she wants to thrash it out Hollywood movie style but I simply do not want to invest my emotional energy in this complicated little dynamic.
Anyone want to live with me, take children to school and be a jolly fairy godmother?
Bee xxxxxxxxx
Ps Hope Treelette feeling stronger of branch.
Morning to Bezzy Boodles and Lovely Cando.
And Shangrilalala and Eulalia too.
And Lins - wherever you are darling.
And Mrs BG; whom I may pop in and see in Brighton soon.

Eulalia · 24/11/2009 10:31

Mista - good to hear from you Am at your pool! Thanks for sharing your thoughts, what a terrible poignant thing to happen about your previous baby. I think it must help for you enormously with the new life inside. For me it was my last baby which makes it that bit sadder but I have my children, they are solid and real and time consuming. Good luck with your job.

So many thread babies, we should have a due date list.

Shangrila, good that you are back with us

Tree, take care xx

busier - blimey hope that silly cow leaves soon, how dare she talk to you like that!

justa it will be over soon and can I say sort of thank you as you saying your fed up helps me to not want to be pregnant again! although the fact that I always had easy pregnancies doesn't help but I know its hard carrying on with other kids around.

Must dash as taking ds2 out of nursery a bit early as he has his MMR booster.

love to bezzy, pelvic, cantdo and anyone else I've missed.

xxx

Eulalia · 24/11/2009 10:36

Forgot to say I finally got round to doing my profile, well not written anything yet but put some photos up if anyone is interested!

busierbee · 24/11/2009 10:51

Eulalia
Am working from home this morning (can you tell!?)
But have just had a wee peek at your offspring. They look divinely free-range - just how I like them. Long of hair, curly, cheeky. Gorgeous.
Your big boy, I know has his fair share of trickiness to deal with. He is a very handsome boy indeed isn't he? With a thoughtful, intelligent and bit worried face. I like the look of him.
I like the threeness of them too.
Lovely family.
We are both of us very, very lucky.
We should remember that.
Re the lodger; I gave her a month's notice.
Polite but not ready to engage in emotional battle.
Just had a text from her. It said "cold".
Do you think the heating has broken down or is she referring to me?
Never been called cold before- am very unchilly as a person.
Humph.