support thread for women who have chosen to terminate

[busierbee]

Hello
Busier Bee here - I felt that before I went to bed I wanted to open up officially a new place for weary travellers of those on the road that we have chosen to rest our heads, muse, sob, moan and support each other.
Also the kind, compassionate souls who have not been there but who offer their support and lend an ear and pass a gentle word.
We have chosen to be here and we are here and we are not alone.
Thank you so much all of you -for I personally do not know where I would have been in the last few weeks without you all.
Night - sleep well
kisses and thoughts
BB xx

Eek, Bee, hope the head is feeling better by now. 4 glasses would be quite enough for me too, I'm such a lightweight these days.
Dh is busy roasting chicken with lemon and thyme, mmmm.
Dd has had a busy day outside with us in (yet another) lovely garden. This one had a giant swing in a huge tree, big enough for Dh and Dd to go on together. Sweet.
It was so beautiful and peaceful outside this afternoon, it made me feel quite emotional. I think my brain was having a go at happiness, but tears almost came out instead. Really weird.

Hope everyone has has a good day.
Hello to all. Lindso, you still around? or Ilovemydog?

Lins xx

Hello my garden goddesses
Yes a very beautiful day and I know what you mean about the fine line between beauty and sadness Lins. I am sure bit by bit we are emerging from our pain and can see the loveliness of life a bit. And in fact am sure I appreciate the loveliness of life more post the trauma ( for there is little doubt that is what it is) than before it. The experience of agony, the choices we have faced and the reaching the depths of pain maybe also makes you appreciate life bit more.
I am obsessed at the moment with the trying again thing - in case you had not noticed! You are right Bezzy - we have all faced the fear and dealt with it and what worse could happen - but because it has been twice who for us, who is to say it could not be three times? And some self preservation has to kick in.
I have three children so do not mean to be greedy. But the three I have, I conceived because I wanted to be a mummy with a man with whom I had a troubled and disconnected relationship. What I feel now is so very different. I feel such love for LM, and such connection post - trauma, and such a desire to demonstrate that love with a child that is ours. Feel it so acutely.
So - do we recklessly go for it or do we sigh and hold each other and know that we tried?
No answers to it.
Justa - I hope the sickness bearable - did you get a scan yet?
And everyone hope you peaceful - we certainly less miserable than last weekend it seems.
BBx
ps I had way more than four glasses - more like... eight! Am trying to train self to stop at four next time there is a blow out like that!

Also hello to SAMR1 and Shangrilla if you are still reading here.
Lindso your testing must be coming up soon and if so then I wish you all luck and calmness.

Bee my love, why would it be reckless? As you so clearly say, you want to create a baby with a man you dearly love. And from the heartfelt way you describe your lovely relationship, what could be more natural? The experts have said that you are no more likely for it to happen a third time, and I know that is impossible to believe, but it wouldn't be reckless to go for it. Being reckless would be: smoking and drinking loads and not taking folic acid and not eating properly and not going for check ups and taking drugs and eating liver, unpasturised cheese and pate etc. I kind of think you wouldn't do that!
I can't tell you to try again, because only you know whether this would be right, but I sense you are trying to talk yourself in to it, and screw up the courage. And courage it will take (oh, apart from the obvious!! .) Maybe in some small part of you, you have already decided to go for it, but you are waiting for your heart to be ready.
I just have to try again. I have to. And I do so thinking that if we had a really poorly baby again, I would probably do the same thing. It's a scary thing.

Ok better get stuff ready for work tomorrow. Bleugh.

xxx

Thank you Lins for such encouragement. What I mean by reckless I guess is that our chances are much higher now that it has happened twice. And whilst they do not know why, I just have this terrible fear and dread and inkling that really there is something wrong with eggs or sperm or both in our case. So the reckless theme is to do with choosing to do something that may harm my spirit again. Going back for more pain and sorrow when still in pain and sorrow. Like being a boxer - you might win the fight or you may end up in a bloody heap on the floor.
I feel such a physical longing and 'rightness' (born from my love for him) but my rational self knows it is somewhat self destructive and crazy.
So - time I guess is needed. Small son calling hang on...

What a lovely message mrs Pins.

BB what on earth is in that 'potion' I've just baked muffins.....

Mm, muffins. Yummy, can we all have some? Funnily enough, I made muffins on friday, for the first time ever, and then another lot on saturday morning cos they were so yummy.

Think I may have to investigate this potion thing, if it gives you magical energy. Could do with some of that.

BB, I do know what you mean really.
Do you think if it happened again you could cope? I wonder if you have fallen in the dark pit so hard this time because you were still grieving for your first baby. Your heart was still in a turmoil. And of course you feel that the odds are against you - nothing has challenged that yet. But third time lucky? xxx
I know for me that it was slightly more bearable this time because I knew where to turn for help, and did as much as I could to make it right for me and Daisy. (I know if a stranger is reading this they might think, how can you make it 'right', but I hope you know what I mean, about getting daisy's wrap and blanket etc, and taking photos.)

ok, I've ironed clothes, assembled Dd things for nursery, now for another early night. One ridiculously bad night last week has really had a knock on effect, snore. That, and the fresh air.

Bezzy, don't eat all the muffins at once. Save one for tomorrow!
Night all.

Bee - I know exactly where you are coming from with the TTC thing. I'm heads all over the place with it at the moment.

DH desparately wants to try again and I do desparately want another child but the thought of getting to 12 weeks, then scan, then testings then waiting, waiting waiting the thought of the whole process is just to hard to bear. It frightens the life out of me. If I could conceive and then fast forward 9 months and have a healthy baby that would be perfect, but I know life's not like that, mores the pity!

It's such a difficult decision to make, do we not try and live the rest of our lives thinking "if only" knowing the fear of what happen is the thing that stopped us or do we try and chances are there will be a happy ending?? It's the fear at the moment that is so terrifying.

Why is nothing ever simple eh!!

A quick hello all - smiling cos the mood is so much brighter this weekend than last... Funnily enough I made muffins on Thursday.. Good to have you back justa - I am so impressed that minutes back from holiday you are doing family accounts (on top of all the other stuff) - wish we would get round to that someday! Anyway - justa - really hope all is ok for you and your bean... Busy end to last week for me - friends over from foreign lands - and was feeling poorly again - doc has put me on another 2 lots of antibiotics as this infection is hanging on in there. Feel much better tonight tho... I am feeling v of all the wine drinking - this time have been told not a drop... aaargh! And went out for supper twice last week and there I was not eating much, and drinking water, claiming to be on antibiotics (we've all heard that excuse before) - I almost wanted to just tell everyone at the beginning - No, I am not pregnant.
Bbee - am with you sometimes on it feeling reckless to try again - and my concerns really are whether I can handle it, but like lins, I just have to keep trying...
Anyway - here's to a brighter week for us all..
sleep tight
xx

good morning to Tree and hope you had restful and if not restful then fun and bonding time with husband
Morning to all - and SAM we are all sounding bit better although I had a sleepless troublesome night with thoughts of TTC.
I know this so well as had it after first baby and before this one - and because it was such a bad outcome again i feel so troubled that a third time? Would we manage? Why would we choose to? etc.
Sense I am going to bore us one and all - slap me round the face and tell me am hysterical.

Hello All

Well, after recently recovering from tonsillitis, I'm now laid up with a cold. I'm feeling ok, but too scared to leave the house in case I should sneeze, and having people throw stones at me thinking I have the dreaded swine flu!

DH being a pain, he's dealing with this whole thing in the usual male fashion, by sweeping under the carpet. Which is fine if it works for him, but it would appear that he's completely forgotten about everything and thus being impatient with me should I have a bad day.

ggrrr

Bezzyy - there are so many colds about really- so boring for you to be illy again.
Re the Husband - hard for them to get it as they slip back into everyday life much more seamlessly and also not their bodies that have carried the baby, the pain, the wobbliness (emotional not physical!)
Can you schedule a babysitter and go out for glass wine? So easy to blob in front of telly and not share your sad moments together. I was astonished with the first one when my Lovely Man admitted he wondered about the sex of the baby, and thought about it quite often. I think maybe they feel must keep it together for us.
Sure he loves you very much( you sound pretty nice to me).
Anyway you need to like him a bit in order to get going on the trying path. How very exhausting.
I rang ARc this morning to talk to one of the staff there about trying again- not conclusive but helped a bit (I think). She did know women who had had two DS pregnancies and gone on to have healthy baby - but did not ask her if she knew any who had three.
Am so scared of upsetting my body and spirit again.
Rest well and lean on your man - am sure he strong enough to take it.
Big hugs
BB xx

very wise words, BB, thanks. Good idea about the babysitter. I've actually got the forms to join a babysitting agency that comes highly recommended by a friend (family all far away so unable to help out), must pull finger out and actually sign them and send away.

Glad you called ARC this morning, think it's a good idea to have you hear someone else say the words 'try again'.

Am making a lovely roast lamb tonight (apologies to all veggies out there), maybe we should actually sit at table and eat it, and shock horror turn off the tv. (Can't believe I'm saying that!)

Love to all, hope you've had an ok day

B xx

Hi Justa

Please do tell the Buddhist theory

thanks

B x

Am waiting with bated breath Justaboutouronlyhope and would very much like to hear anything that may help me face the hard decision.
Has anyone been told to wait more than a month before ttc? Can it cause problems if do?
Not that i am... but I like to have the full picture. Hope you did not think was being bossy re baby sitting - it just am a great believer in 'TIME WITH LM' as have seen how badly it affected my first marriage to not have any. (first marriage! as if I am on second which am not- since, HE HAS NOT ASKED!

Justa, so, we're all done with Quakers now and would like to join the Buddist movement!
Detachment? Is that an emptying the mind thing? My brain never stops buzzing and thinking, even when it really should!
Am waiting for dinner to cook, so hungry now, I could eat the computer.
Sam, do hope you are better soon. And hope that antibiotics aren't mucking up your body too much. xxx
And a big get well soon to Bezzy too. xxx
Bee, 'fraid you'll have to start dropping hints about weddings then!! Or when is the next leap year?

xxLins xx

Night night, sleep tight,
mind the bedbugs don't bite!
xx

Hello people!

Lovely chatty weekend, am a bit [green] I couldn't hang out with you all. Yo all seem ok after a very foggy week. Yay to a new week.

Welcome back to Justa and the bean - great name for a band. Am veery sorry to hear of the bleed in Spain and very much hope all settles. Am guessing it would be about your period time? Very common time to have a bleed.
We missed you Justa. x

BB - I proposed to my dh! Thankfully he said yes. Was exceptionally drunk.

Lots of talk of ttc. What a road we are on all together! It's 2 weeks till I go to meet the team for the egg donation I am doing.

Alton Towers was great, the water park is lovely, dd loves it. But the water was a bit chilly. She enjoyed the theme park more than previously, she is getting so old and grown up. I love her to bits. My boober juicer [pet name of old]
Wedding aniversary in the am, 2 years.

Helllo all. Still here. Wow, tree. Congratulations.

Hey BBee. Sorry the to TTC or not TTC thing is causing you such angst. I recall the inner conflict so well. I always felt that when the idea of 'giving up' caused me more pain than the prospect of revisiting m/c, terminations etc, then that was the time to keep on going. But that's just me.

In our situation, some traumatic family circumstances external to TTC dropped on us like a tonne of bricks after my last mmc (T21) and that really halted any strategy. 18 months on from that, I had one other pregnancy which didn't develop past 6 weeks - but that was a bit of a slip. Strangely, I often forget that last pregnancy. It was a simple unembryonic miscarriage - nothing as dire as I'd experienced before. But perhaps, and for me this was important, I'd just learnt to cope with it all.

We are not particularly 'careful' anymore, although I would never say we are TTC. Think I'm too geriatric, anyway. But perhaps the not shutting the door firmly and throwing away the key scenario is important to me. Amazingly, that has just come to me as I type, and that in itself is helpful!

BB, about leaving it more that one month. Some people believe that folic acid deficiency is a factor in this and a higher rate of folic acid for 3 months might be helpful. If you google, there is a British academic called Howard Cuckle who has done some work on this, but some of his research is disputed. I've never yet managed to find an obstetrician or a GP who buys into the theory, but I have supplemented to that level and have not had a T21 affected pregnancy on those occasions. Most probably coincidence, but in the light of no-one else giving me anything more scientific to hold on to, I'll go with that theory. Let me know if you need any more info and I'll dig out the links.

This has turned into War and Peace, not my intention. I hope everyone has a good day, stress-free wherever possible. I'm off out with my best girlfriends tonight and I fear a little too much wine will be downed in this quarter too!

Oops Tree. Sorry, I thought you'd just proposed. Serves me right for writing essays at this dark hour. Obviously, the congrats should be for your wedding anniversary. have a great day.

5.09 Shangrila??

B x

Shangrila - that is the most hopeful and insightful and experienced post I have read in a while. Your experience of this, both medically and emotional, is so valuable. Thank you.
Particularly you put well that you can come to a place where the sadness of not trying outweights the trauma of m/c and terminations.
I think I am not there yet.
I think you have helped me to see that - alongside talking to people in RL and my lovely man.
Am intrigued by the level of folic acid suggested - is it more than the government level? Marj - hope this is not sending you in a spin, darling, as i know you mentioned before had not always taken it.
CAN WE HAVE MORE INFO PLEASE?
Bezzy I know you had an article here somewhere but was not strong enough to read it at time.
Thank you again Shangrila - where are you in world - is it Scotland - can not remember - like to have a visual map in head of where you all are; Bezzy in Bristol, Lins in Kent, Marj in Reading and the Spiritual Leaders in Yorkshire. I think SAM is in Scotland too -maybe wrong and Eulalia.
And what were you doing on computer at 5?!!!

Here's those articles BB, I saved them in my faves

Article 1 www.prevention-news.com/nutrition/down_syndrome_link_-_folic_acid.htm
Article 2 www.nhs.uk/news/2007/January08/Pages/Folicacidboostssperm.aspx

B x