Children in business class......what the heck is wrong with it?

[Indaba]

Forgive the rant but I am so, so, so, so annoyed........I have been following a thread elsewhere asking about long haul holiday recommendations.

The poster was intending to fly business class and I have been astounded at the number of mumsnetters who have argued

1. children shouldn't be in business class at all just in case they annoy someone who needs to work.

2. business people have paid so much for their tickets they deserve to be completely undisturbed.

Please can you tell me when it was decided
business people rights are more important than anyone else in the universe and they should be able to dictate who can buy a transport ticket on a public airline?

I thought we were all created equally. Or have things changed and some people out rank others according to earning power or their jobs?

Nothing wrong with it at all...it is sod all to do with anyone else.

Is business class the same as first class? I thought business class was intended for business people who used the time on the plane to work... hence the name.

I agree with you I took DD to HK when she was 18 months old. We flew business, but as I walked onto the plane to looks the other passengers gave me could kill. One of them even moved from her seat when we sat down as she was close to us. DD was an angel and slept for 11 hours of a 13hour flight and then played quietly for the rest. When we were getting off the plane the woman who moved commented on how quiet and well behaved DD was as did a few others. Prior to the flight a few of my friends suggested I shouldn't fly business with a young child; where as it is ideal for a young child as you have more room and a proper bed for them to sleep on so they are more likely to have a great flight and make a lot less noise than in economy.

If I could afford it I would always fly business.

No, there are three (or four types) of seats

First....vvv posh
Business....bit posh
Economy.....cattle class (with some airlines now doing premium economy)

Larger bodied planes have upstairs and downstairs for business class (thus there may be two physical levels for business class) and kids are excluded from the upstairs business class and only allowed in downstairs business.

Frequent business flyers with good airline loyalty records automatically usually get put upstairs when there are two physical levels available for business.

Plus, who is suggesting people with babies cannot do work?

I fly business class with DCs.
I quite enjoy some of the s and when I get on with small DD and apparently scary autistic child....

Depends a bit on the airline and the route but I don't think I would fly business class with children. The word 'business' implies the other passengers might be more than a bit annoyed. Whenever I've flown business it's because I was travelling on business and therefore had work to do on the plane.

I would fly first class or premium economy with them though. There's generally a more family atmosphere.

I don't think children should be excluded from business class (or most other places for that matter) people should just be more tolerant of others.

But... a friend of mines parents on their retirement booked a business class long haul flight, this was a real treat for them, a sort of once in a lifetime thing. They were just settled in their seats, glass of champagne in hand, and they said their hearts did sink when a toddler came and sat down next to them.

DH woke up in business class to find a toddler (probably about 20 months) playing with DH's toes. He found this sweet and funny. I would have thought that business class was ideal for little ones. I am convinced however that airlines pay parents of unsettled children to fly cattle class to teach people some sort of lesson. It must be horrendous for the parents and I am hoping to avoid flying for the next 5 or so years as we can't afford business class for holidays.

There's nothing wrong with it, but if I'd paid that much, and I got one of those families with children who are allowed to squeal/run around near me, then I'd be pissed off.

I admit I'm not the most child friendly person though......

If they have paid for a ticket I don't see how it matters whether they are a 40yr old suited man, a hairy biker who smells, a farting old granny or a small child.

The only thing exclusive about 'business' and 'first' class is the price.

I did a lot of long haul flights as a child, with my parents and 4 siblings, and we travelled first class.

Actually people who see me get on with DS2 always have faces that read like a tragedy. But actually DS2 is the most fabulous flyer. He sits by the window. rarely speaks except to me and gets faintly zen like. He loves it and sits there quiet as a mouse.
DH and I always fight over who gets to sit next to him.

And DD was never allowed to run around or squeal or make noise.
I wouldn't fly a long distance with her until she could be entertained and/or soothed in her seat.

YANBU

I think it depends on the age of the children and how their behaviour is generally.

I certainly wouldn't have entertained buying a business class ticket for our son until he was six. Mainly because I know how exhausted my DH can be when he travels often. If he doesn't get sleep on the plane or manage to get a decent amount of work done, there simply is no time to catch up. I would hate the pressure of trying to keep a child quiet in business/first class - it is bad enough in economy. My BIL, who travels even more often than DH, still won't fly with his family in business class and his youngest are eight.

A friend of mine, with three children, has travelled in Business with small children and one of them basically screamed for most of the flight. It didn't bother her in the slightest though. She has never had to work let alone travel for business though!

As long as the child doesn't cause a lot of noise and disturbance I don't see why it would be an issue.

Not sure on this one actually.

You could by the same token argue that it's fine to take small children to, for example, a cinema or theatre performance, or dinner in a very smart restaurant.

However, most people wouldn't do that, because it would be unfair on the other theatre- or restaurant-goers.

So the question is, where do you draw the line... where is it unreasonable to take a small and potentially noisy child.

For me I think business class is right on the line...

YANBU

If the airline allows children in business class, then its got sod all to do with anyone else!
You paid the same as everyone else, so what's the problem.

Yes, we have flown business with our two, and take them in the lounge thingy when we can, but they have to behave and they are not allowed to disturb others.

My dc's have flown Virgin Upper Class since they were babies. Dh and I have a 4.5 hour rule, anything under is economy and anything over is upper. It works for us and the stewards have always been fantastic with the dc's. We've been told that our children are fantastically well behaved on more than a few occasions by flight attendants.

I'd be pissed off if people had badly behaved dc's on a flight in any section.

And I'm always lovely to parents of screamy babies on flights, been there, done that!

when children are not brought up to know how to behave in situations such as a theatre, a concert hall, business class then they have no business being there. Manners cost nothing, regardless of the class you're travelling in.

Well yes LittleMiss but when a baby is crying it's not because it's got no manners, it's because it's a baby and sometimes they cry.

minipie: "Not sure on this one actually.

You could by the same token argue that it's fine to take small children to, for example, a cinema or theatre performance, or dinner in a very smart restaurant.

However, most people wouldn't do that, because it would be unfair on the other theatre- or restaurant-goers.

So the question is, where do you draw the line... where is it unreasonable to take a small and potentially noisy child.

For me I think business class is right on the line... "

Actually I would do all those things with my kids if I could trust them to behave (which I can sometimes). Cinema and Theatre it would have to be appropriate of course.

This not taking kids places is a very British thing. We have taken our 3 to St John's Passion in a Church in Hamburg (uncomfortable seats, long and serious music) and they weren't the only or youngest children there.
They behaved, although I did take bribes to keep them going. The older two have also been known to sleep through dinner in a posh restuarant in Boston, jet lag that time.

Actually, I'm with minipie on this (slap bang on the fence).

Being able to afford it something and being able to do it doesn't mean that you necessarily can or should.

I might be able to take the kids to a very expensive restaurant or the first night of a new theatre production but just because I can afford it doesn't mean I should if it would ruin other people's enjoymen.

It's called consideration for others. Not just putting what you want or can afford above other people. If you think your children would ruin other people's enjoyment of something then I'd say, yes, it's fair enough not to take them.

But that's a judgement call for each individual. If you think your kids will behave appropriately then great, go for it.

Agree with Giddyif your child is able to sit quietly and make no more noise than a reasonably behaved adult then it isn't a problem.Just like theatre etc.But then people who let their children run around/shriek/shout on planes drive me bonkers even if it is Shite AirwaysMind you the most bothered I have ever been was by a guy in business class shouting about how much money he had and slagging off his ex wife to the embaressed chortles of his idiot paid companions. Classy