Children in business class......what the heck is wrong with it?

[Indaba]

Forgive the rant but I am so, so, so, so annoyed........I have been following a thread elsewhere asking about long haul holiday recommendations.

The poster was intending to fly business class and I have been astounded at the number of mumsnetters who have argued

1. children shouldn't be in business class at all just in case they annoy someone who needs to work.

2. business people have paid so much for their tickets they deserve to be completely undisturbed.

Please can you tell me when it was decided
business people rights are more important than anyone else in the universe and they should be able to dictate who can buy a transport ticket on a public airline?

I thought we were all created equally. Or have things changed and some people out rank others according to earning power or their jobs?

We have flown long-haul business with DD's (company expense) several times, and it certainly has not always been plain-sailing. I have vowed never to actually pay for it myself, as the stewardesses always seem ready to pounce at the slightest sound. It is easier now that they are a bit older, but the under 3's can be tricky... Your call, but you better have thick skin - there will be some nasty looks!

Idiocy. Full stop!
I've flown hundreds of thousands of miles in business and first class and never ever thought anything of children being there. That was BC (before children)
What utter nonsense! What's the big deal?
If the work was so important, fly private.
Anyone who has purchased the ticket has the right to fly in whichever class they chose.
Gosh, inebriated businessmen and wanna-be celebrities[boak] make helluva more noise than 10 children, throwing a collective tantrum, ever could.

Hardly ever see children in business class

Would be fine with it providing they don't squawk. Squawking is unfair on people who really really need the sleep, I feel.

Haaaa, an 'evening in theatre or smart (bohoooa)restaurant'- kerrrrist-on-a-bike, it's public transport!!!!

It's not public transport - there are no public airlines anymore are there? I'm kind of with pagwatch - tiny babies fine, children who can be amused, fine. 18 -24 months - slightly less sure.

But that is mainly because I would feel very bad if my DS was squealing and squawking for hours because I know how hard I make my colleagues work on planes

Surprising amount of wealthy MNers!

I have no problem with children in business class if they are properly supervised by their parents. What I cannot stand is children who are badly behaved and parents who do nothing to try and control them.

I had a memorable flight to Singapore where twins aged about 2 to 3 were so badly behaved that the purser went around the cabin to apologise. I was trying to sleep knowing that when I got to Singapore I had a dinner meeting. I knew that after dinner I had to deal with a problem in Houston which would take most of the night and then the next morning another meeting. That evening I had to fly back to London.

That sort of schedule is why people fly business class in the expectation that they can work/sleep in peace. After that horror trip I always ask if there are any children in business class .

I fly business with ds and am used to the filthy looks (sometimes from the stewardesses). Usually it is long haul and overnight. I am lucky if I can get ds to stay awake long enough to have dinner on the plane and he always misses breakfast.

All I can say is the only time I've flow Business Class, there were two beautifully behaved preschjool children (this was way BC for me, and I was bery child-intolerant at the time...) the noise that kept me awake was from one man snoring very loudly for virtually the whole flight & another who had been quaffing the free champers & was shouting talking VERY loudly as drunks usually do

I think it is terrible that people with children who fly business class have to have their children exposed to such narrow-minded, selfish people who only care about their own comfort.

Bring on the kids is what I say!! Some of them are so well behaved they could show some adults a few tricks!

rubbish, if you can afford it, do it. My DH's company used to pick up the bill and I never had any funny looks or problems on longhaul and the kids started at 4yr and 1yrs. Infact, now we are paying ourselves and heading through BC to cattle class, they look longinly at the seats and ask why we aren't stopping here!

All I can say is that anyone who doesn't think children should be in business class should avoid flying Virgin Upper Class between London and Tokyo or Hong Kong any time between mid-June and late August, because half the times I've been in there, there are more children than adults - all the expat families going home for the summer.

Of course, some considerate people do just put the parents in Upper Class and relegate the kids and the Filipina nanny to premium economy or even (shock horror) plain old economy ...

This is not about the price you can afford. anyone on a flight does not want to be subjected to whining moaning, kicking backs of seats, incessant questions.

Everyone has something better to do - whether that be work or not.

Why should it be like that on a plane? Just because you pay so much for a ticket does not entitle you to extra peace and quiet.

You should try taking a train on the Waterloo line at 7.30 in the morning! You still pay a packet for the ticket but you won't even get a seat!! No whiney kids there, just bad-tempered adults who had to get up early.

It is about what you can afford sarthrell.

Everyone who has pointed out that 'business' just means moderately posh is right, it's not exclusively for business people or indeed adults.

We flew first class for a trip to LA with the dc 2 summers ago. We saved up and paid a fortune for those seats, and had every right to fill them with our dc.

The issue about whining and kicking seats is a separate one. It's unacceptable and the parents' responsibility to make sure that's not happening. And in premium seats, you can provide kids with endless movies, snacks, computer games so it's easier to shut them up than in economy!

Here's my post from the other thread:

I'm not sure where people get the idea that most people in premium cabins are a) actually travelling on business and b) completely unsympathetic wankers with no politeness.

Travelling on business? That may be true on some routes, but not, I suspect, on flights to the Maldives or Mauritius. I fly long-haul business a lot (10-20 return journeys a year), and IME, a considerable number of people in the cabin are on leisure breaks (including expats on home leave) who have paid for themselves, have premium cabin flights as part of their expat package or use airmiles to upgrade. Its only a few long-haul routes that I've flown (eg Tokyo, NY, Singapore) that the majority are on business.

Unsympathetic? Not in my experience. I nearly always get people coming over to say hi to DD (who I admit is particularly charming!!!), to offer their assistance if I'm travelling on my own with her, and to generally play with her until its lights out time (as I said, night flight are the way forward). I've had professional sportsmen en route to playing in a big tournament reading her bedtime stories, a very famous captain of industry (this was in first class)take her to play games on his laptop so I could eat my dinner, and a film director walk her up and down the aisle in his arms until she fell asleep.

I've only once had a fellow passenger complain that kids shouldn't be allowed in business (we had only just boarded at this point, and DD was already asleep) and he was loudly told off by another passenger for doing so. A lot of the travellers are parents, and, especially on businessy routes, a lot of them spend time away from their own children (I get shown kids pics a lot!) so are very approving of a working mum who takes her kid with her on business as much as possible, and like a bit of kiddy interaction.

In fact, I've found travelling economy worse as far as dirty looks from other people goes. Not because they aren't so nice as people, but mainly, I suspect, because they are younger as an average so less likely to have kids and because the whole experience in economy is a bit stressful, cramped, and generally makes you grumpy.

I understand that anyone who is travelling business would be annoyed if they were woken up by a child. However I find it ridiculously unfair that if you and your family want a good nights sleep on a longhaul flight that you can't do so. They should have another section just for people who want to sleep if they wanted to keep business for business people. To be honest many airlines have changed the name to something else other than business class. Most flights that I have been on recently the majority of people in that class were clearly not on business.

The only time I have ever seen anyone get annoyed about babies/ little children in business was on the NY-London red eye where the flight is the "night" and it is short (6hrs) and the second the seat belt signs go off, everyone is straight to sleep and no-one takes their eye masks off till the lights go on for landing. Most people will have worked a full day in NY, then when they land, they'll be straight to work in London.

Unfortuantely on this flight a baby did cry pretty much all flight and I did have to question whether the mother, who was going to the Uk to visit family, couldnt have taken a day flight instead.

I dont think many people resent children in BC. As someone else said, drunks, snorers and farters are far worse!

Have to admit when I was working as a nanny I flew Economy with the kids while parents flew business/first. Except when we went to Mauritius for some reason they took the baby with them and I had a 3 and 4 year old in back with me. My two slept through the flight. The baby screamed and was sick all over Mum's Gucci. I didn't giggle. Honest.

Turtle- lol.

I think the worst deal you can have as a passenger is when M&D sit in business and stick the children in traveller plus unaccompanied where they bicker and squabble all flight.

"2) business people have paid so much for their tickets they deserve to be completely undisturbed." have peple with children in buisness class not payed the same price then? This argument of theirs is silly!

Turtle23, I can see your nose growing!

Badly behaved kids with ineffective parents are generally not welcome anywhere.

But if kids are well behaved then they should be welcome in any area of the plane. Babies who scream is just one of those things and I think there should be a seperates area of the plane for them!

sorry if it's been said, but I dont know any business people who pay to fly business class - someone else is picking up the tab. yes, they often work on the flight, but if a child is being noisy, is that not what headphones are for? You can just listen to music and drown them out. Of course, if you're hoping to sleep, that doesn't help, but you equally could be kept awake by two business people chatting....

If children shouldn't be in business class, the airlines wouldn't sell them tickets.

I've done it with mine. Is actually much less stressful trip. More room, more help etc.

I agree with the "why is it suddenly OK to disturb Economy passengers just because they have (or at least spent) less money"? consensus.

The airline may have a greater responsibility towards the BC passengers. If the airline chooses to ban children from BC then that would be their choice but it's interesting that I don't know of any that do.

My DCs and I have a responsibility to try to behave respectfully towards all our fellow-travellers, whoever they may be, wherever they may be sitting, and however much money they may have paid to a third party (the airline). And IME children tend to be better behaved in business class -- they have more space (it's virtually impossible for a small child to kick the back of the seat in front in business class), there is better entertainment available, it's easier and faster to get drinks and snacks, there's less of a queue for the loo. So my fellow passengers (as an undifferentiated group) will have a much better flight if my DCs are in business class than they would if they are in economy.

The thing is that you could be ANYWHERE and be disturbed by badly behaved children. You could have badly behaved children in Economy, Business and First on the same flight! And it is the bahaviour that is the problem. Not the fact that there is a child there.

We flew Business to Asia with DS when he was 9 months. On the way there Business was almost empty and it was a night flight so he slept. On the way back, also a night flight but flight was full. A woman was sitting next to us. She didn't speak to me till we landed when she told me that her heart sank when she saw we had DS but that he had been very good (he slept most of the way and just woke for breakfast).

Funny story though. DH was flying from Asia to Europe in Business once. Was sat in lounge working when a large noisy family came in who were obv on same flight as him. He had lots of work to do and was going straight to meeting. So he upgraded himself to First. Yep. You guessed it. Large noisy family were in First!!! I did laugh.

"Badly behaved kids with ineffective parents are generally not welcome anywhere." --- amen to that!