Children in business class......what the heck is wrong with it?

[Indaba]

Forgive the rant but I am so, so, so, so annoyed........I have been following a thread elsewhere asking about long haul holiday recommendations.

The poster was intending to fly business class and I have been astounded at the number of mumsnetters who have argued

1. children shouldn't be in business class at all just in case they annoy someone who needs to work.

2. business people have paid so much for their tickets they deserve to be completely undisturbed.

Please can you tell me when it was decided
business people rights are more important than anyone else in the universe and they should be able to dictate who can buy a transport ticket on a public airline?

I thought we were all created equally. Or have things changed and some people out rank others according to earning power or their jobs?

My hubs gave up his BC seat recently to a young hassled chinese woman who was travelling with her newbie.

He remembered me struggling to BF in cattle class in those small seats.

Bless him.

What a lovely husband you have, cfc!

So... my DH works 15 hours days, plus weekends, in a pressured job. On his annual holiday, he chooses, partly through necessity as he's shattered, partly because he wants to and can afford it, to pay for 4 business class seats.

But we should be forced into economy, or not go, so the middle manager, on expenses, in the next row can watch his mini-screen/read his book, without having to endure our presence or run the risk that our DC might make a noise at some point?

If the business traveller is that busy, he or she will stick their earplugs in an immerse themselves in work, regardless of what's going on behind them.

Careful grumblegrumble, that sounds awfully close to saying that a "middle manager" isn't as good as your high powered DH

I once flew from San Francisco to London with 2yo DS first class. The looks we got when we appeared - people were not happy about it. He was an absolute star apart from when he fell out of the bed.

He is lovely. Esp as he's 6'4'' and practically has to fold himself into the small seats!

FWIW, even well before we had children, I was always sympathetic to parents whose kids were kicking off whilst they tried to control them desperately! We were all kids once, a lot of us will have kids and GC...where's the compassion, patience and understanding? Where's the kindness?

Although, parents who let them run riot piss me right off. There are lines! Understanding works both ways.

TheBride maybe the mother with the young baby booked a night flight in the hope that the baby would sleep through? I doubt she did it to piss off more important people.

All these poor souls who have to fly from one meeting to another or are 'working' on the plane are being paid extremely well for it, so I have little sympathy for the poor business traveller who wants to quaff his/her g&t in perfect silence. If you can afford to pay for it, then good on you. Your children just as entitled as the (wo)men in suits are.

The company is often paying for our kids to sit in Business Class, so how does that work then? They are officially on business as well.

Policy is under 3 hours=economy +3hours=business. No changes possible (like I am gonna argue ).

I know mimipie, not what I meant, am a bit hot and irritable today .

Just I hate this 'work first/children are a pest' attitude that seems to be prevalent every area of life now (even our annual holiday).

But actually, I think a good family life (and for us that means our holidays together, as we don't get much family time the rest of the year) is more important (or of equal importance) than how the average business traveller gets from a-to-b.

If we're sharing a cabin with someone who's straight off the plane to perform brain surgery, then I have some sympathy that they need absolute quiet. But for the rest of us - well, as already's been said, it is still public transport and we're all paying customers. And children will be children, just as noisy people will be noisy, snorers will snore, etc.

Loving some people saying - 'just don't do it if they're aged between X and X', or 'if they can't be 100% trusted to behave Y' or 'you wouldn't take them to a restaurant/theatre', etc, etc.

Clearly Brits married to Brits, with two sets of British grandparents!!

What about the rest of us from some other part of the world, who don't have the 'luxury' of foregoing travel while our children emerge from the very young baby years and into the can-be-reasoned-with years?!

Children have as much right as anyone to be in BC - although I can definitely sympathise (as I would with anyone in Economy) if children are running riot and the parents aren't doing anything about it.

I don't think children in busines class per se is the problem. It's just that on average kids are louder than adults and more likely to be making a fuss!

If someone if paying for a business class ticket, they're paying for a more enjoyable flight. Enjoyable does not mean crying babies or screeching toddlers or shouting children.

If you are sure that your children will be well-behaved and quiet, then go for it.

Oh, and I, too, have had the experience of fellow passengers (in economy class) telling me at the end of a flight how their heart had sunk when they saw they would be sitting next to me and my children! Then they go on to say how well behaved they were. In fact, my kids are better behaved on a plane than they usually are...

sorry but if I got into business class and say a toddler and baby next to me my heart would sink! you do expect a better experience in bus class

if I am sweating like a bitch in thompsom fly, hey its par for the course

that said, I'd take a sleeping pill, out my eay plugs and and have a kip

"...If someone if paying for a business class ticket, they're paying for a more enjoyable flight..." - that includes children, who have full fare tickets bought by their parents, I presume .

Exactly rollmops. We pay for business class tickets because we get more leg room, better films and better food. We includes my 2.5 year old.

As has been said very few airlines call it Business class-
Club/Upper Class etc- they are premium seats, and premium people have children (who are no different to other children )

The only person I have ever heard complain about a toddler in business was a frequent traveler but not on the flight in question, when a friend of mine who was terminally ill and had very little time left she flew home Club class. Her two year old was looked after a lot by cabin crew who saw how very ill she was. They walked him up and down the plane, played with him and generally kept him busy.
My friend (D) was so grateful, and I relayed the story to friends of ours in a bar. This one guy (A) got really uppity, that people don't pay premium prices for the cabin crew to play with a kid (which is true) and had he seen this on the flight he would have been fuming.

DH pointed out he doubted the service suffered, and that actually (A) had never bought himself a premium ticket but only traveled in style at the expense of his employers as a reward for his work, and as (D) had bought a full price ticket from her own money she was just as much entitled to a premium service, which in this case included a bit of extra help with her son on her last flight.

That A's attitude clouds my judgment on this whole topic. Bu I will say again, whether you can afford economy or premium you are equally entitled to be around well brought up children, and children are equally entitled to be where their parents can afford to seat them,

If business class is just for business people (i.e. no kids) then why do the airlines let you book your kids on? You can't just turn up for your flight and say 'oops, silly me, forgot that in addition to my laptop, I've brought my 2 year old'

And all this debate makes me wonder, what age do you think kids should be allowed into 'Business' class?

Sorry, OP - forgot to say YANBU!

rollmopps, yes absolutely. In my view, the same applies to eating out in nice restaurants late at night. The parents can well afford to fork out for the kids to eat with them but I don't think it's a very polite thing to do! Just because you can afford to do something, doesn't mean it is ok to do it.

And I raise your to ...

Travelling 1st class with dd. The two business women behind me were so rude - loudly complaining that I & dd were sitting infront of them. I willed dd to shout but she slept & gurgled quietly. I did note the name of the bank they worked for.

The difference was I had paid for my ticket whilst they were on a jolly. They just drank & chatted loudly the whole time.

"I think the worst deal you can have as a passenger is when M&D sit in business and stick the children in traveller plus unaccompanied where they bicker and squabble all flight."

Do people really do this? Arseholes.

i agree you're not being unreasonable at all, but...you have to make sure your children know how to behave so they don't disturb other travellers who have paid as much for their seat as you have.

we travel virgin UC with the dss london / joburg frequently and we are strict with their behaviour - they do'nt disturb the other passengers.

it doesn't matter if you're in business, first, upper, premium or economy - you have to teach your dcs how to behave appropriately and have consideration for others.

crying babies however are totally exempt because they cry, period.

Same with the restaurant. Took all our kids out in the early evening. The next table looked like they were thinking their evening was ruined.

When we left they said what lovely kids we have. Everyone had behaved properly - no problems. We'd taken along distractions (colouring books & paper- for between courses.

Not all kids are screaming running everywhere monsters all the time!

My parents have ended up looking after children on flights while their parents are 'up front' - not very old children, either. But my mum was fine about it, actually thought it was a great idea - mum, dad, grandma and grandpa in the back row of Club, three children in the front row of economy.

OK if you have people like my parents there, but I don't think I'd have been to pleased to be babysitting someone else's children while their parents and GPs relax in another part of the plane!