Children in business class......what the heck is wrong with it?

[Indaba]

Forgive the rant but I am so, so, so, so annoyed........I have been following a thread elsewhere asking about long haul holiday recommendations.

The poster was intending to fly business class and I have been astounded at the number of mumsnetters who have argued

1. children shouldn't be in business class at all just in case they annoy someone who needs to work.

2. business people have paid so much for their tickets they deserve to be completely undisturbed.

Please can you tell me when it was decided
business people rights are more important than anyone else in the universe and they should be able to dictate who can buy a transport ticket on a public airline?

I thought we were all created equally. Or have things changed and some people out rank others according to earning power or their jobs?

5dollar is totally over-reacting and taking words out of context. no one suggested she wasn't allowed to fly. with her kids. no one said she had to walk, across australia (??)
stop being silly. what someone said was that people who want to fly child free, like anyone else who wants to do something child free should be able to .

how are you going to argue against that. ?

how is that horrible/negative/discriminatory etc etc.

if you want to eat chinese you go to a chinese restaurant. no one saying you have to eat thai , only, for the rest of your life.
read what people have written, rather than reading what you want them have written.

By the way, i love flying. love everything about it. cramp seats, aeroplane food, which is naff, but i love it. flying generally. i have flown all over the world, in every type of class. just love it. like flying with dh and our boys. try very very hard to get them to behave, only for other peoples consideration. but lets be honest many parents don't seem to care.

and because i love flying so much, that i don't do quite so often these days i also object to being with stinky people/ pissed youffs and bratty kids and anyone else irritating, just so thta i'm making myself clear

Yes I can confirm, Sandals is doing a roaring trade (as I gaze out across the bay in front of my balcony at the Sandals beach and remember those child-free days....)

sorry. gotta go. off on me holiday to,childfreeholiday where does that picture say it is ?
looks flippin lovely though.

sorry. get a bit exciteable now. was just actually reading that artcile and look what quote i saw :

Child-free sections on planes
According to a poll 85 percent of passengers would like to see child-free sections on planes. The survey reveals the level of frustration that most passengers feel when seated next to a crying baby or over-zealous youngster. The poll drew over a massive 17,000 responses and...

oh its o.k. fruitstick and 5dollar. its just me then. must be just me. no one else in the world thinks that some people might like to fly child free. then.

oh just me then. world revolves around me. oh yeah. that must be it.

shall I pour you a glass of wine Oblomov?

Calm down Oblomov!

Look, I am as likely to stick up for the rights of people to do things child-free as the next person. We had a child-free wedding, ourselves (with the exception of one breast-fed newborn). I love my child-free nights out, and never relish having to sit next to a screaming baby or noisy child in a restaurant. I am not one of 'those parents' who thinks everyone loves my child as much as I do.

In addition to that, flying business or first class home to NZ is and I'm sure will only ever be a pipe-dream for me. It will be economy all the way - maybe economy plus, if we're lucky - for us.

All I am saying is that if people want to fly business class with their children, then they should be entitled to so. Until such time as there is actually an airline that provides a child-free service, then we all just have to suck it up.

It's all well and good producing a poll of people who want child-free sections on planes, but until such flights actually exist, then paying customers are entitled to travel as they wish.

I still really do not get the thought process that says all travellers with children must succumb to economy flights, regardless of their circumstances... That economy travellers deserve to be subjected to children, while those in upper classes shouldn't...

errr. best you do. large white wine spritzer please.

it doesnt matter how well behaved the child usually is, if his ears start popping and cause him distress and pain he will cry even if he is the most well behaved child in the world!
i flew to Florida in cattle class and 95% of people in business class were families with screaming noisy children they obviously thought it was better environment for children on a long haul, i was childless at the time, now im due to become a mum my next 2 holidays abroad are cyprus and australia, i will be flying business for both of them! some people obviously think children should be put in the storage hold out sight!

LOL memphis.
Wait til you've had a screaming(very tired) wriggling hot 1.5yr old on your knee desperate to sit in their own seat... you might reconsider use of the hold - and that might be for you, along with a large G&T!

Its always worth it though!

The thing is, you genuinely are more likely to get the best out of a child (and subsequently the parents) if you have more room.

My flights home are around 25-30 hours one way. If I could afford business, I'd do it in a flash. I travelled home in economy when DS was 4 months old, and it was absolutely fine. He slept, and sat on my lap and b/fed.

But in all honesty, the thought of such a flight in cooped-up conditions with him as an 18mo, scares me witless! He wouldn't be able to sleep properly, as no way to stretch out, and an over-tired toddler is everyone's worst nightmare. Imagine getting off a 12 hour flight, having to entertain the child while stopping over, and then getting on another 12 hour flight. It really is not going to bring out the best in anyone.

So as I say, I can truly see why, if people can afford it, they fork out for the more expensive seats. Everyone arrives at their destination in a better frame of mind.

I don't doubt for a second that it does piss people off, and that is unfortunate. But until you've experienced that hell that is proper long-haul with a toddler, then I think it's hard to understand how tortuous economy flights are.

You are joking aren't you??

"everything is child centred. everything is the 'child comes first'. even though i have children i think that the world has become a bit too child focused. we've gone from a child is seen and not heard era to the child is king era. balance needs restoring."

This is one of the most child-unfriendly countries I can think of! Just have a read through some of the threads on this 'pro-parenting' site. Moan about children at weddings, moan about children on buses, moan about children in the supermarket. And if the world outside MN is even less child friendly then God help us all.

Right, so airlines need to offer:

1. cheap as chips cabin, for those who just want to get from A to B & don't mind playing sweaty sardines
2. Family Class - more legroom, decent movies
3. Business Class - like Quiet Coaches on the train

& 4) Mega Swanky - 'holiday of a lifetime' or 'my boss loves me, but not quite enough to authorise the Lear' Class.

That should keep everyone happy, no?

I love flying, and don't have a problem with children flying. BUT I do get annoyed at parents who don't control their kids.
I once had an eight hour flight with the fecking ten year old behind me kicking the back of my chair the entire bloody way. I was ready to fucking throttle him within half an hour, and his parents gave me such a look when I asked politely that he stop kicking me in the back.

'i think you should be able to go to places - planes/restaurants/films/anywhere actually and not encounter children. not everyone wants to be around children.'

But why just pick on children. When on a plane/public transport/ in a restaurant, I am much more offended by:

• Hideously drunk stag/hen parties
• Smelly people (sorry!).
• Having someone effectively sitting on my lap cos there is not enough space/they are too large for the seats (sorry again - I'm blaming the seat-size not the individuals!).
• Complete strangers who fall asleep on me.

etc etc etc.

If we want to live in a society where we don't have to deal with annoying people/children/situations, then I want to be the first to vote for a fat-person-free, pleasantly perfumed, non-alcoholic, personal-space-giving flight. Is that intolerant of me? Surely not!

Bravo, undercovermutha!

Nothing wrong with taking children in business class. I generally find that the people who cause me most discomfort during air travel are either obese adults who take up half my seat space or drunk adults embarrassing themselves. Children are rarely a problem and their parents are frequently just as if not more nervous about their kids behaving badly than everyone else!

The answer is, if the airline allows you to book a ticket for a child in business class, of course you are allowed that child in that class. Simple.

I wonder if the people who don't want kids in business/first are actually suggesting that we pay for economy tickets when DH's company has paid for business?

Not. A. Chance.

Business/First Class is not advertised as a childfree option.

I do like the idea of a "family" area on a plane though.

Family area on a plane would be great Morloth. I try to book seats closest to the toilets at the back of the plane when I have to travel with both dcs (4 and 2) on my own. It's a struggle but business class is totally out of my league from West Coast USA. I can dream though!

YANBU

Hear, hear Undercovamotha

We cannot really afford business class, but take DS about appr. 20-30 flights a year, so he is quite clued up. He only ever screams for about 1 minute before abruptly falling asleep mid-shriek during take-off. But he has not done this either for a while, because he is too excited getting hos in-flight service (waving his arms shouting "Milk, Milk").

The most miserable and insignificant airport in the world though, Newcastle, only allows children into their lounge if they have business / first class tickets. So despite our frequent flyer status we cannot go in. You can take any child into lounges in Amsterdam / Paris, etc. and those lounges are at least worth it. Sorry, rant over.

Seeing children / old people / etc. as some kind of pests / inconvenience to be out of sight is a very serious problem in our society. Literally just arrived back from Greece (not affected by industrial action) and everybody, absolutely everybody, was great with DS, chatted to him, stroked his hair, smiled at him, etc. In return he behaved much better. Otherwise he is an unruly toddler.

But in England most restaurants regularly lie to us and say they are full just to keep us out. The ones that take us on never regret it, as we leave such huge tips out of gratitude. (We do not go out that often, DH is the best chef I know.)

I like ravenAK's idea - a quiet section would be good, as that would cover loud/drunken adults as well as kids. Mine are pretty quiet these days - 11 and 7, and we only fly airlines with decent in-flight entertainment systems so they just plug themselves in as soon as possible.

I think the airlines do sometimes allocate informal family areas - I've noticed that there are usually other families in the areas where I am placed with DCs, and there are parts of the cabin with none/few children.

And I've noticed that sometimes when business class has both upstairs and downstairs sections, they try to put all the younger kids in one of them. My DCs made friends with lots of other flying toddlers that way, when we were walking up and down our little stretch of aisle for the hundredth time on a 12-hour flight....

Absolutely nothing wrong with children in business class. After living abroad for 3 years I find the UK a very unfriendly place when it comes to children. Very sad

Worst fucking flight I ever took was 10 hours in business class with a boyband who insisted on getting drunk and serenading everyone. I'd take six screaming kids over that every time.

Mind you I always got sat upstairs in business and there never were any children. Celebs, flight marshalls and me.