Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think the behaviour of these mothers is shocking and they bloody well deserve a slap?

402 replies

SassySusan · 21/06/2010 21:12

Message deleted

OP posts:
Magdelena · 21/06/2010 23:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Anniebee65 · 21/06/2010 23:35

Chegirl,that is unreal. Frankly if you have the nads to say all of that, you have the nads to at least ask you how you're coping.

Did she just have a total mind fuck or what?

The correct thing to do was to ask if you if wanted to go for coffee and have a chat.

Of the reality is, if people have pro-actively sought you out at the actual time of the bereavment, then these horrific scenarios won't occur. Because they've already done the hardest part and that is show up for the bereaved family.

Anniebee65 · 21/06/2010 23:35

whoops double post.

Gillybean73 · 21/06/2010 23:41

Sassy,

Do the people closest to you know how much you are struggling with the day to day shit, like cooking, cleaning, shopping etc?

I know I'd be horrified if when my friends both lost their sons they really needed help with stuff like this and nobody was providing it. Remember people can't guess what your needs are, and I'm sure your needs must change on a daily basis depending on how you're feeling.

Try and find the strength to tell those around you what your needs are and I'm sure everyone will be only to happy to pitch in and give you practical support (assuming you want it) as at least they will feel like they are helping when words fail most of us at times like these and it might make it easier for you and them to talk about what you're going through.

People aren't mind readers remember, you need to try and tell them how you're feeling and I know that must be difficult.

PrammyMammy · 22/06/2010 00:17

Sassy, i am sorry for your loss.

YABU though. Your list of 'rules' is a bit unfair i think. People are expected to ask you and talk about your child, but they have not to complain about their own? Surely that goes both ways.

My friend (i've posted on here before about this) who was pg at the same time as myself, had her son early when i was on my maternity leave, unfortunatly her ds died, no one from work even told me until 2 weeks later. Now she doesn't talk to me, despite my efforts when i found out about her ds.

People have different reactions, one person who losses their baby might hate anyone with a child talking to them, other might have a rule list of what is right to say and what is wrong. I don't think it is very fair ro expect everyone to know what to say to you.

emptyshell · 22/06/2010 01:35

They're trying - you might not see it now, but the M+S treats comment wasn't someone trying to obliterate the memory of your child - it was someone trying to start a conversation with you, which might have led on to the deeper stuff, because people generally don't tend to go straight in with things like that - in case the person in question doesn't want to talk about it (because not everyone is going to cope in the way you've laid down by your "rules").

The song again, was meant with the best intentions, while it might have seemed simple and trite to you - it was at the level the children who knew your daughter could relate to... ok so the mum involved doesn't have a career as a lyricist - but they were making an effort to remember your child as best they could and acknowledge that they were going to miss her. They reused a tune that the children knew so there wasn't the focus on having to learn a tune - but the focus would have been on the words and how the children were feeling... perhaps not the most appropriate choice of song, but I'm willing to bet that was the logic behind it - and NONE of that is mallicious. Most things at the level of children that age can appear trite to adults - but to the kids involved they would have meant a heck of a lot. I remember a classmate dying when I was at school - the cards and pictures we drew and made may possibly have seemed clumsy, too colourful or something equally offensive to an upset adult eye - but they were us saying our goodbyes at a level that was appropriate to us at the time (we were slightly older).

You can lash out all you want - but they don't deserve a slap, they don't deserve a slap for the innocuous "good weekend" comment, they probably haven't got a clue how else to phrase the Friday goodbye thing with you at the moment and are trying to play things as neutral as they can for fear of upsetting you further.

No doubt now I'll be bad for saying that - but you're not seeing things coherrently (inevitable) and you're seeing slights and insults where there aren't any there. Other people will grieve differently to you as well - so you can't speak for some standard set of rules how to act, I miscarried recently and while that normality might be upsetting you and you're seeing it as an insult - it was exactly what I needed when I went back to work, to escape from the pain going on in my mind for a few hours... people are different and that's what makes people unsure of how to react - if there was some standardized approach that didn't offend anyone - they'd all be taking it.

You are in fact being unreasonable - but you're in no position to see that at the moment. These mothers are not being shocking - they're being human, and in their own completely inept way - they're actually trying to do the right thing by you... if they're getting it wrong - you need to tell them as calmly as you can, what help you DO need from them because, however much you're hurting, you can't expect them to be a mind reader.

thumbwitch · 22/06/2010 02:25

sassy, so for you. At the moment you probably feel as though you have several layers of skin fewer than you used to have, so every little thing will flick on your raw flesh, regardless of how well-intentioned (or thoughtless) it was in the first place.

Your anger at your tragic loss is transferring itself onto other people who aren't going through what you are - you are angry because they still have their lives intact, their DC are still around. This is normal and it will diminish with time.

I hope you do have some kind and caring friends who are looking after you - offering you a shoulder to cry on, the occasional cooked meal, silent space for you to be the ranting wild woman you need to be at times. If not, then that is even sadder.

Someone on here may have already mentioned it but it would be a good idea to email your close friends with a list of suggestions of ways that they could help you if they want to.

Have you been on the Bereavement threads on MN? Lots more support over there as well.

Offering you some unMNly (((hugs))) because I think you need them.

EveWasFramed10 · 22/06/2010 08:30

Sassy...I'm so terribly sorry, and I'm so sorry that people close to you aren't being sensitive to your feelings, or letting you talk openly and comfortably about Catherine.

I hope you're finding some support here.

fragola · 22/06/2010 09:07

I'm so so sorry for your loss Sassy

My English Grandmother lost a child and when I was growing up it was made known to everyone in the family not to mention her, or things that reminded my Grandmother of her (particular Christmas carols for example) because she found it so terribly upsetting. This was my Grandmothers choice - I think many people from her generation were afraid to show their grief, even to family members.

This is very different from the Italian side of my family where people come together in the way that Annie described happening in Ireland.

I think that maybe many people in England have grown up feeling awkward around death and believe that it's insensitive to mention it. There doesn't seem to be the same mourning "traditions" that there are in some other countries, so people aren't sure how they should behave. I think most people care deeply, but they just don't know what to do.

ThisIsBloodyHardWork · 22/06/2010 09:11

Hi Sassy. So sorry for your loss. Just wanted to say that although I have never had to deal with what your going through, my brother died when I was a teenager and it isn't just mums that say these ludicrous things - it's lots of people. And you're right, as the bereaved person you make allowances for people not knowing what to say ALL THE TIME. The idea that people don't know what to say, so they end up saying something outrageous and that's not their fault and you are BU to be pissed off just doesn't make any sense.

Both I and my mum have a fund of stories of hideous things people said to us at the time of my brother's death, and years later, it still happens. And it ISN'T OK. It' is FAR better to say "I'm so sorry I don't know what to say" than to ignore someone, or to say "oo have you thought about holidays" or just look embarrassed and awkward when the person's name is mentioned.

I don't think your anger is misdriected, or U, or anything other than just a completely valid and rational response to the way you are being treated.

shabbapinkfrog · 22/06/2010 09:30

Sassy I have just been searching through my Compassionate Friends newsletters trying to find this article -

A BEREAVED PARENTS WISH LIST

  1. I wish my child hadn't died.
  2. I wish I had her back.
  3. If I cry and get emotional when you talk about my child I wish you would know it isn't because you have hurt me. My child's death is the cause of my tears. You have talked about my child and you have allowed me to share my grief.
  4. Being a bereaved parent is not contagious, so I wish you wouldn't shy away from me. I need you now more than ever.
  5. I need diversions, so I do want to hear about you, but I also want you to hear about me. I might be sad and I might cry, but I wish you would let me talk about my child, my favourite topic of the day.
  6. I know that you think of and pray for me often. I also know that my child's death pains you too. I wish you would let me know those things through a phone call, a card, a note or a massive hug.
  7. These first months are traumatic for me, but I wish you could understand that my grief will never be over. It will 'change' with time.
  8. I don't want to have a 'pity party' but I do wish you would let me grieve. I must hurt before I heal.
  9. When I say 'Im doing OK' I wish you could understand that I dont 'feel' OK and that I struggle daily.
10. I wish you knew that all of the grief reactions that Im having are normal. Depression, anger, hopelessness and overwhelming sadness are all to be expected. So please excuse me when I'm quiet and withdrawn or irritable and cranky. 11. Please excuse me if I seem rude, that's certainly not my intent. Sometimes the world around me goes too fast and I need to get off. When I walk away I wish you would let me find a quiet place to be alone. 12.I wish very much that you could understand my loss and grief, my silence and my tears, my void and my pain. BUT - I pray daily that you will never understand.
MmeLindt · 22/06/2010 09:45

When I started reading this thread I too thought that you were being slightly unreasonable in expecting too much from your friends and acquaintances.

However, almost every mother on this thread who has lost a child has agreed with you which should perhaps show us something.

You are quite right to be angry and upset the people are so insensitive and lacking in empathy and tact. You are right to be furious with the woman who wrote the song. If she had wanted to do something to remember Catherine by, why did she not come to you and offer you support and help.

Why did she not sit and think about what it would mean to you to hear that jaunty song. Why should you be understanding of her trying to help when she is making no attempt to find out what would truly help you.

I am so sorry that Catherine is no longer with you. All to often I have not known what to say to a recently bereaved person and thanks to this thread, I do have a better idea of how to react.

travellingwilbury · 22/06/2010 10:04

Sassy , I absolutely understand where you are coming from .

I think the problem is the complete and utter exhaustion that grieving brings you, and we do spend a long time thinking of how we cam make ourselves palatable to the outside world and yet the outside world doesn't seem to even try and even be nice .

It is hard to even get out the house and walk up to the shop . when you get there and someone ignores you or says something stupid it is just so difficult .

We don't have the energy to keep correcting people every day on how they should cope with us . How about they try and find out all by themselves ?

SassySusan · 22/06/2010 10:19

Message deleted

OP posts:
porcamiseria · 22/06/2010 10:38

Sassy BE FUCKING ANGRY, I dont blame you, I tried to post earlier but failed

Maybe this is not helpful, but right now you are rightly angry and they make you feel this way, BE ANGRY. I think people are being very misguided, fuck them and tell them. Just dont hold it in , you think her song is fucking shit idea? Tell her, tell her how it hurts you.

I am desperately sorry for your loss,bless her soul................................

and it makes me ashamed how crap some people are, really does. How fucking dare she write a song? what did she think???

angry on your behalf, excuse language

lulabellarama · 22/06/2010 10:46

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

mumeeee · 22/06/2010 10:52

I'm very sory for your loss. The other Mothers probably think they are helping or do not know what to say.But the Mother who wrote the song should not have done it without consulting you and getting your permission.

porcamiseria · 22/06/2010 10:52

Lulu I thought that the poster was beyond innapropriate asking that. On an internet forum? twice? fuck off. That is in no way comparable to people that knew her DD talking about her

FFS

Cretaceous · 22/06/2010 10:56

I think that some people ask how a little one died to reassure themself that the same thing couldn't happen to their own child. (Not saying that was the case here, but if I were the OP, that is what I would feel.)

I agree with porcamiseria. OP, it's not your place to make others feel comfortable. It's your place to grieve for Catherine.

I'm so sorry. We are thinking of you and Catherine - I'm sure everyone is.

mayorquimby · 22/06/2010 11:00

"However, telling someone who has just lost a child to "have a nice weekend" is just crass."

Is it though? I accept it may seem crass to you because it seems so trivial and fake but to them it's probably just another way of saying they hope you feel better.
FWIW I think that a lot of the things you have listed are beyond the pale (the song for one) but other things you have listed I see nothing wrong with and wouldn't criticise the people who said them in the slightest.

porcamiseria · 22/06/2010 11:01

exactly Cret

Iam sooo angry how people are telling her that people are "misguided" or "well intentioned" why should she fucking well have to be careful of their feelings?

shabbapinkfrog · 22/06/2010 11:06

thing is Mayor - the anger, sadness, guilt, longing, depression and a whole host of other emotions is all consuming and overwhelming when you lose a child.

You cant imagine how you will ever smile again....the simplest of tasks is impossible. When, and if, you manage to go to sleep it is like falling through a massive, un-ending black hole. Many years have passed since my sons died but my sleep pattern is ridiculous even now.

As Im typing this message my shoulders are hunched up around my ears and, soon, i will have to put on my 'Elanore Rigby' face that I keep in a 'jar by the door' and go and pick up my grandson. As time passes you learn to pretend that you are fine but Sassy is in the worst place in the world, in my opinion, she is in the early stages of grief..... it is beyond description.

LadyBlaBlah · 22/06/2010 11:11

YANBU. You are NOT wrong.

It is surprising how many people have fucking shameful social skills. For me, there is no excuse. And if you feel up to it, bloody tell them.

The James Bulger thread was resurrected yesterday and I had a quick look back through, and there were a few people on there saying that Denise Bulger should be "over it by now", and she should "go and get some counselling"

It was interesting to see that people genuinely think it is OK to say that, if very very shocking.

Sad state of affairs.

BTW, if I ever said something horrific/didn't say anything, I would expect a mouthful.

comewhinewithme · 22/06/2010 11:22

Sassy I don't know what to tell you because you don't want to hear what it feels like 11 years on or that it does get better with time and although it still hurts everyday that horrible fog of early grief does lift.

You have every right to be angry to want to scream and rant I told a man in the ICU to fuckoff because he kept asking me if I was ok the day she died.

I realise now that he didn't know what say and I feel bad for him.

I remember stupid things like a women telling me that "God only lends you children and sometimes he wants them back"
When I got pg lots of people even family members told me it was good I was having a new baby as though I was replacing her.
I still hate them for saying it.

I am so so sorry that you are going through this I feel sick and angry for you.
If people piss you off then tell them don't kust let it all boil up inside and hurt even more.

frikonastick · 22/06/2010 11:24

"You earlier say that you want to talk about your daughter, but when someone asks how she died they get a curt response asking why they want to know"

the poster didnt ask about her daughter, she asked how she died. thats very different.

for what its worth OP, i completely agree with you. alot of people are just shit, and are far more concerned with their own comfort levels. you would think when your friends CHILD dies, it would be enough to put themselves and thier comfort levels second.

my DHs best freind and his wife were pregnant at the same time as us, we even had the same due date. we both had our DCs. theirs died at 7 months. ours didnt. i was outraged for them on more than one occasion by just how self centred people can really be.

you are NOT unreasonable. at all.

Swipe left for the next trending thread