To think the behaviour of these mothers is shocking and they bloody well deserve a slap?

[SassySusan]

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Sassy Im for you xxx

I have had every comment you can imagine.

I once (a few weeks after my DS3 had been killed) went into town on the bus. Two old ladies sat behind me discussing my precious lads accident. They commented how I must be 'one of those single mums', 'they've no idea how to bring up children these days.' etc etc. When I got off the bus the driver was in floods of tears and apologised to me for them.

My HV once said to a trainee HV....This is 'shabbs' she had un-diagnosed twins but then one of the boys died at 7 months. Then she had a single boy. When the little lad was 7 years old he was killed.' She's fine though - coping very well!!! WTF??

I used to long for somebody to give me a bear hug....a proper, proper long bear hug...but, because I put on my mask before I go out and pretend Im fine - well, nobody can see behind it.

Keep posting on our 'safe haven' thread love - we are open to very loud screaming, swearing, slightly manic laughter - anything you want to throw at us - no problem at all

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I am so sorry for your loss.

But the reality is that everyone greives differently, and so there is never really a right thing to say. Because what for one is insensitive may help another to try to regain normality and vice versa. And tbh even "I'm so sorry" is just a clichet. People say it because it's expected, and yes, because they don't know what else to say.

One of the school mums' dad is currently dying of terminal cancer. She is already grieving for the loss she knows will happen in the next few weeks, but she doesn't want to talk about him, doesn't even want people to ask how she is, she would far rather people just didn't talk to her at all.

Similarly my BIL's brother died very suddenly a few weeks ago. And the reality is that there is nothing you can say to make that better. The day he died I didn't want to call as they were all at the hospital, but I didn't want to not acknowledge his death. So I sent my sister a text, and when I'd sent it that just seemed so impersonal, but had I not sent the text then it would have seemed as if I didn't care... there is no right or wrong way tbh.

I spoke to my sister the next day, but didn't see BIL, and his mum, for over a week. And at that point they wanted to talk about normal, every day things. So what do you do? Take them to one side and bring up their loss and potentially bring them back down?

Your anger is understandable, but it really isn't black and white.

Sassy,

I am so sorry,I can not begin to imagine how you get through each day,and have little more to add other than in bygone days mourning was properly acknowledged, with clothing rituals and the like, and so was much more visible and a much more widespread occurence.

It would seem that as our society has become so much more open in discussing many topics, such as sex and relationships, we have lost the 'vocabulary' or sensitivity to support grieving families.

For many people you know, it is possible that your child's death is the first they have encountered and they are just genuinely clueless, rather than being unintentionally insensitive.

thinking of you x

yabu- it is nothing to do with them not being bothered, you said it yourself in OP, they don't know wht to say. if they have never experienced it then how can they possibly know what you want to hear?

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I have been really rubbish in the past when others have suffered a bereavement. As Belly 36 said I was so afraid of saying the wrong thing, I didnt say anything directly.

It wasnt until I experienced a bereavement myself I understood that any acknowledgement would have been better than nothing.

It sounds so ridiculous to me now, but at the time I did not get it, and really did think not speaking until I had the "right words" was the best option.

I'm so sorry. YANBU. I hope you have also got people around you who understand, who say the right things, who aren't scared of raw grief and who will listen and be with you. Something as dreadful as this separates the wheat from the chaff.

Can you be blunt with people and tell them that you are unable to care about or listen to trivia because you are in grief? If you open up the conversation and be honest about how you feel, some people will run a mile, but others may be relieved and show that they do care but are frightened of saying the wrong thing. People are very frightened of death - especially that of a child - and will avoid thinking about it or talking about it, but you have just had to get on with it and stare it in the face (as every single one of us will have to do sooner or later).

I hope too that somewhere down the line, you will be able to feel less hurt by the thoughtless reactions of others.

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Some of these crass comments may just be a result of them being nervous and saying the wrong, stupid thing.

I once met a woman at our toddler group, after a sleepless night with DC3 - she was new, and her DD was on oxygen and had a feeding tube in. She told me that she had another daughter who had died shortly after birth, and that the DD who was with her had spent months in hospital and was only just home. We talked some more, she asked me about DC3 who was running about like a mad thing, and I said in a sleep deprived haze and without thinking that he was "a bit lively and a bit of a handful, you know what it's like". I realised with horror what I'd said the moment it was out, and she sort of froze, looked at me and said "no, actually, I don't."

I could have kicked myself, and avoided her for the next couple of weeks, simply because I'd been so bloody stupid and insensitive, and didn't want to upset her further.

But if the bereaved person actually brings up the subject of the dead person, it's surely pretty obvious that they don't want you to change the subject and start talking about the weather.

And while people may react differently to bereavement, I have never once seen a parent who has lost a child (excluding miscarriage) say that what they really wish is that everyone would just act as though the child had never existed, never mention him/her and talk brightly about completely unrelated topics. So I don't see why 90% of people think that's the way to go.

i think you're finding out who your real friends are.

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Sassy

I think it is really important that you post here, as by sharing your experiences, it gives the non-bereaved insight on how to support the bereaved.

After losing my dad and bil in quick succession I wanted to wear a massive neon sign highlighting my distress, saying 'handle with care', as a warning to others, and my loss was nothing compared to yours.

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I can pretty much tell when someone is being genuine but not quite saying the 'right' thing. I have had over four years and loads of practice.

Its the ones who are smugly sure they know about bereavement that piss me off. They are usually professionals of some sort. When I say professionals I mean those I meet as a patient/mother/service user. So it could be a receptionist or a consultant, a social worker or a teacher.

They know all about the stages of grief and like to tell you about them so you will know where you are. One told me with confidence 'it takes time to get over it, about 5 years' So I will be ok come next April will I?

I am getting pretty fecking fed up of every HV, midwife and HCP that I come into contact with for whatever reason, being desperate to refer me for counselling. I have had it thanks and it was good but enough already!

My GP is lovely, she gives me valium when I need it because she understands it helps, like a painkiller.

I recently had an appt with a really nice HCP. She insisted I needed more help because 'you havnt finished your grieving' FFS. How is that for a lack of insight?

But have I ever told any of the above to feck off? No, I dont and nor will the OP. We put up with it and nod. So who exactly is being UR?

the bear hunt thing is a joke right?

Sassy - did these other mothers even send a card? It is hard to find the right words (because there are none) but acknowledging the terrible loss you and your family have suffered is the very least they could do.

Although, having said that, I remember a long and heated discussion with my DH last christmas when I sent a friend a card which said something along the lines of 'I'll be thinking of you and the little chap that should be spending christmas with you'. My DH felt it was insensitive of me to bring it up (cos otherwise they wouldnt be thinking of it?).I was thinking of them, several times on christmas day I thought this must be f*cking hard for them.

If you were a close friend I'd ask if you wanted to talk about your dd and if there was anything you needed and tell you I'm only a phonecall away if you needed to talk day or night

mostly i'd be led by you tbh

if I didn't know you well I'd say I'm sorry for your loss if the opportunity arose

would either of those approaches be okay?

My best friend gave birth to a still born child

we talked endlessly about her baby, her need to have another straightaway, we cried together, I sometimes worried I was being crass so always asked her if it was ok to ask how she was doing etc

Sassy, firstly, I'm so sorry for your loss.

Everybody deals with grief differently unfortunately which makes it really hard for other people to know what to say and do. There is no comprehensive list of things to say or do that would fit every situation, if only there was it would stop many people making complete idiots of themselves!

Whilst I agree with your list of points 1-3 I don't think that points 4-5 apply to everyone. Two of my friends both lost their sons in the same car accident a few years ago. The way that both families reacted to other people around them was completely different, one wanted to talk about their son with no restrictions, good, bad the whole works and wanted everyone to continue talking about their own children - warts and all! The other parents were the complete opposite and those closest to them felt like we were all walking on egg-shells as we were in the wrong when we mentioned their son and we were in the wrong and accused of not caring when we didn't mention him. It made things really difficult to know what to say or do as we couldn't do right for doing wrong for a long time afterwards and a lot of friendships were sadly damaged in the aftermath.

Don't be too hard on those around you, I'm positive they don't mean to be insensitive or crass. Most people's hearts will be breaking for you but not everyone is very good at expressing it well or very good at offering support/kindness without inadvertantly offending you or appearing to be condescending.

Please don't shut these people out though, I'm sure in time they will get better at it. I've had some really cringeworthy moments myself in these circumstances and I've never meant to hurt or offend anyone. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Sassy, I don't have sympathy for the useless people who don't know what to say. If you have made allowances and they still don't say anything or carry on talking about the weather, then fuck 'em

sassysusan - how did your dd die?

very sorry for your loss

The thing is op, people don't know what the right thing to say is, and they can't really ask the bereaved person can they? "well I'd like to know what to say to you, but I just don't know."

The loss of a child is incomprehensible to anyone who hasn't lost a child. A major bereavement is incomprehensible to anyone who hasn't experienced a major bereavement.

Can you honestly say that you would have said all the right things to someone before you had lost your dd?

We all have the answers with hindsight. But for many, they never experience what you have, so can't possibly know, and as I said before, what to one is the right answer, may not be to someone else, etc.

Some people do still go on the family holiday, if they have other children for whom they need to try to retrieve some sort of normality for instance.

People cannot and should not be ashamed of something they haven't deliberately done wrong.