To think the behaviour of these mothers is shocking and they bloody well deserve a slap?

[SassySusan]

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"It's not good enough really - but it's interesting to read this, as there seems to be so much sympathy and understanding for those faced with the daunting task of actually speaking to a real live bereaved mother. (Gee - it must be awful for them)."

Yes, it is awful, because you feel awful for the person, you dont want to say the wrong thing, you dont want to say nothing, you dont want to say too much.

Yes, things are much much worse for you. It really is unimaginable what you must be going through.

I suspect the ladies in your village are a bit crap, to be honest. I do wonder, to an extent, if they are damned if they do, and damned if they dont. Apart from the obvious corkers, they seem to say too much, too little, or too medium.

Please continue to educate us as to what you would like us to say, though, because hopefully it will help. It must be different for everyone, it simply must, because people are different. Any insight is helpful.

Sorry for your loss. Under the circumstances, YANBU.

Well said Donkey.

Thing is though - a bereaved parent just takes it and takes it...because they feel defeated by life, they are not as confident as they used to be, and every single second of every minute, of every hour, of every day is 'consumed' by thoughts of their precious child.

It takes varying amounts of time for different people to even start to 'recover' - Its taken me many years (my baby boy died in 1982 and my DS3 died in 1992) to even start to feel better - whatever the hell 'better' means. I still think of the boys constantly and long to see them again. I dont know how any parent copes with those early weeks and months - I dont know how I am still here...the early days are so very very hard.

...and, then there are those days when 'older grief' bites me so hard on my arse bum that it takes my breath away!

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Sassy if I bring my brother up in conversation people tend to smile sympathetically and say 'hmm'. Or they pretend I didn't say anything (other than my really closest friends). You might find that people you didn't expect help the most - it's strange how you find strength from people you barely know at times.

I am so sorry for the loss of your Catherine - 2 months must seem an eternity and nothing people can say will take that rawness away, but occasionally words will resonate and comfort but they are not often found in the platitudes or emptinesses of conversation with acquaintances but with those who want to listen and those who knew her well.

My aunt can talk about her son but not his death and is angry when others cry about him as then she feels she's comforting them, not them her. A male colleague of dh's has just recently has been talking about the death of his two children and he said that dh's shocked response, then talking about what happened and what they were like has been a release since no one mentions them, unless it's through the church and then it's all dressed up in religiousness (comfort to his wife, not to him). Dh's, "Bloody hell" and "what happened?" allowed him to talk, to even say things he couldn't say to his wife, but it would be a totally wrong approach for my aunt who is comforted by recalling happier times with a small inner circle of family and friends.

Your friends don't mean to upset you, of course, and probably think they are offering unspoken support. With my aunt it was helpful when she said it helped to talk about Stephen as it then allowed us to or just to sit and hold her hand.

SS, YANBU. People suck in these situations. WTF are they afraid of? That you might cry? Of course you might, you probably will, but so what? You just lost your daughter.

I live in Ireland and we simply have a different way of dealing with death. I go to probably half a dozen funerals a month, it's a case of the whole community supporting the family and grieving with them you know?

My sister's friend recently lost her ddin a terrible accident. We all went see her. She was almost insane with grief, her dh was almost as bad. We waked her dd with her, I thought I would cry myself to death. The entire community has surrounded her since and are mourning with her. It's been four months now. I was back in my home town this weekend and went to see her. Apparently she has yet to cook a meal, all her neighbours are still rallying round.

People should get over themselves and stop making it about their own levels of comfort. Fuck that.

I'm seething for you.

wannabe that is exactly what I said the last time I was in a position to speak to somebody who had lost a child

I said "I'm so sorry, I am sure I am going to say completely the wrong thing but I must say something. I am thinking of you, I am so sorry" or something equally shit

thing is, if I got it wrong and the person was angry or savaged me, I wouldn't think "nasty irrational bereaved person, how unreasonable" I would think "god the pain must be unbearable"

I do think sassy has a point that people think about themselves first in this situation - not just what it would be like for them to lose a child, but also "how am I going to escape this situation without somebody being angry and ME feeling bad"

sassy susan - can i ask how your dd died?

some people are just naturally insensitive, and probably wouldn't know the right thing to say in any kind of circumstance.

Others mean well but don't have the right words.

A friend of dh's had a twin who was stillborn. And yes, it was hard because on the one hand they had suffered this horrendous loss (they didn't know the baby had died until he was delivered by csection), and yet on the other they had just become parents to a little boy. They weren't close friends so although dh rang them and said that they knew where we were if they needed anything, they wouldn't have called on us iyswim. And I sent a card and some nice colourful flowers to the house with a note saying that we were thinking of them.

We didn't see them for several months and she told us what had happened.

I don't know whether I did the right thing or not, I suppose she might think I'm a heartless bitch and be slagging me off on a website somewhere.

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Thanks Sassy.It is hard to know what to say, but since I am not the mother without their precious baby it's my responsibility to try, not my friends (or any grieving parent). I think you're very brave to try to educate the twunts of this world, but personally I think YANBU in wanting to slap them,and very restrained not to do it x

"thing is, if I got it wrong and the person was angry or savaged me, I wouldn't think "nasty irrational bereaved person, how unreasonable" I would think
"god the pain must be unbearable"" No I wouldn't either, but thing is as has been said by so many of the bereaved mothers on this thread, generally they don't get angry - they go away and get angry afterwards, and so the person saying/doing the wrong thing doesn't know that they've said or done the wrong thing and so the cycle continues.

So maybe people do need to get angry. Maybe people do need to say something if someone says/does the wrong thing. And if they run a mile, well then maybe they weren't worth bothering with anyway, and if they don't, then maybe they'll learn from their mistake and do the right thing in future.

God the amount of times I have been told 'oh dont cry, you will get me all upset' . So you know what? I dont cry, not hardly ever.

I often find myself saying 'its alright' 'dont worry', 'no, its ok' to people who virtually faint when I tell them my DD died. It comes up suprisingly often. I mean what is one of the first questions people ask you when you are pg or just had a baby? 'Is this your first?' So I say no, my 5th. So they say 'really? all boys?' or something similar.

So what do I do know?
Say no, 4 boys one girl and then have an weird conversation that eventually ends in them saying 'what does your DD do?' and me having to admit she is dead after a five minute convo?
Or say yes and deny that my DD ever existed.
Or say no, I had a girl but she died and hope that they just say 'I am sorry' rather than the step back (literally), go red and make their excuses and leave me standing like a lemon.

Imagine doing that 3 or 4 times a week.

Then try and see things from SS's point of view.

Christ, no wonder we are angry. No wonder we rant on the internet.

I am so sorry to hear of your loss. I can't imagine how awful it must be to lose a child. DP lost his 22 month old son in a tragic accident 7 years ago and he is still in shreds emotionally from it. He finds the anniversary of the accident and his son's birthday particularly hard. I think it's safe to say that once you have suffered the loss of a child things will never be quite the same for you again. Now I am 35 weeks pg with his child and he cannot be in the slightest bit excited about the new baby as he is so terrified something will go wrong and he will lose another child. He has good days and bad days, but from what I gather it was a very long time before the dark days lifted and he had any good days.

I understand you are feeling desperate at the moment and unspeakably sad, but please try not to be angry with people who you see out and about. I am sure they all feel terrible about your loss but there are no words they can say that can make you feel any better, so it is a no-win situation for them. There is a mum at school who has recently lost a baby (stillbirth) and I have not said anything to her as I just don't want to put my foot in it and make her feel worse than she already does, especially as I have a big baby bump right now. But I think about her and her baby a lot even though I don't know her that well, and I feel so sad for her. So please don't think that because people don't approach you or seem to be approaching you in the wrong way that they don't care. Please make sure you get any professional support you can from people who are trained to help bereaved parents as this is something that DP never did and he really regrets it now.

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I'm really sorry for your loss.

My sister died of SIDS (as a baby) and I still find it very difficult talking to my mother about it - and I have grown up with this. I still feel on edge when my mum talks about her 3 children, and I don't know why. I think its because I don't want to say anything to upset her, and then I worry about not saying anything in case that upsets her (she still understandably gets very upset sometimes after all these years)..... You'd think I'd know after 30+ years how to deal with this - but I guess I don't.

Death is a taboo in our society, and it does make people feel sad and uncomfortable. It is of course terrible for you that on top of your grief, you have to deal with everyone else's issues, but I don't think people are deliberately being thoughtless or uncaring.

SO YANBU to find people's attitude's unhelpful and uncomforting, but YABU to think that people should be ashamed, as in most cases they are not deliberately upsetting you and are trying their best to do the right thing.

My MIL lost FIL when dh and his twin sis were 8yo. She remembers people crossing the street when they saw her coming and keeping their heads down. 34 years later that still pisses her off and she still remembers the people that did it.

This behaviour really is the worst of us I think.

One lovely thing is that my 9yo ds keeps a pic of his late GD on his book shelf and talks to him.

He's decided that you're only truly gone when there's no one left to remember you. As the youngest grandchild he'd decided it's his job to keep his memory alive.

MIL just loves to talk about FIL with him.

PD: MIL is czech and lived in London at the time, so she had no family to support her either. People should know better.

Really really sorry to hear about the loss of Catherine, Sassy.

I think a lot of the problem with people is the British stiff upper lip. A lot of us simply don't know how to deal with a show of emotion. Or how to SHOW emotion in an appropriate way. Hence some people trying to show that they're thinking about you in a different way than say, giving you a hug, or crying with you. Hence the wierd song thing (they got it soooo wrong). Or the asking if you are going on holiday this year (which I read into as them hoping you'll be able to have some restful time away from all the day to day godawful shitness that you are going through at the moment).

"other mothers seem to be working hard to be blindingly insensitive" - I really doubt that is the case. I don't think they deserve a slap. I don't think anyone can say anything right to you atm.

Annie one of my DD's friends mother tried to run out of a shop when she saw me.

She admitted it to me in a very matter of fact way. "I was trying to get out of the shop before you saw me". I asked her why 'oh you know its just easier isnt it' (with a broad smile). She then took the opportunity to tell me a long and boring story about her DD and this poem she had written for her best friend (far bloody from it but I was restrained enough not to point that out) and how hard it was for her and wasnt she wonderful for writing a poem blah blah.

I will never forget that. Despite being pretty heavily medicated at the time.

I am sorry for your mum's loss and I am sorry that you lost a bit of your mum. We care so much about our other children. Sometimes its just so hard.

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Chegirl,that is unreal. Frankly if you have the nads to say all of that, you have the nads to at least ask you how you're coping.

Did she just have a total mind fuck or what?

The correct thing to do was to ask if you if wanted to go for coffee and have a chat.

Of the reality is, if people have pro-actively sought you out at the actual time of the bereavment, then these horrific scenarios won't occur. Because they've already done the hardest part and that is show up for bereaved family.