To think the behaviour of these mothers is shocking and they bloody well deserve a slap?

[SassySusan]

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Am noting how this thread is helping everyone know what to say

Shabba, the lorry driver incident you described further back on this thread left me open-mouthed and I still have a lump in my throat thinking about how he could laugh at you.

For all those who have lost children and relatives, I hope you can take a bit of peace from the fact that most of us on here really do not want to make things harder for you.

The first time I was part of a grieving situation was when my best friend's sister died. I was much younger then (inexperienced?). I kept calling her, asking her if she needed anything, sent a card but never visited, believing that if she wanted me to, then she would ask. Needless to say, she was very angry with me when we did meet up and we were both in floods of tears: her because of anger and grief, me because I felt I had failed her as a friend. When another friend lost her parents, I told her that I was there for her, kept calling but she never picked up her phone or called back, but I kept leaving messages just so that she knew I was there. She did not want any visitors. This approach worked for her.

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Annie I wish I lived in Ireland .

I do think that is half the problem here in England , we don't have any ritual connected to death other than the funeral .

I did have some really good friends around me thankfully but I did also have people crossing the road to get away from me and somethe comments made to me . I do know that nearly everyone who spoke to me tried to get it right and tbh that is all that mattered to me . There was only a couple of people who I thought were really insensitive and should have apologised but they also gave me someone to be really angry with when I needed it . I was never angry to them btw just ranted and raged to friends about them .

The bereaved parent does understand how hard it is for people to talk to us about what has happened but it can honestly make a huge difference just to ask how someone is and really listen to the answer .

i don't htink it's just ireland, i think it might also be a catholic thing, that there are mechanisms such as the month's mind in the parish bulletin and being part of a very clearly defined community that make it easier to support a bereaved person. plus if you're seeing someone at mass week in week out, you speak to them. but i'd have thought other religions would be the same, having said that.

mind you, there would be a fair share of old ladies saying things like 'better off in heaven' etc, which also may offend.

I've steered clear of this thread - as this touches on the greatest fear of my life, the loss of my children.

I do agree that IMO there is no "one size fits all" response to someone who is grieving. My dad committed suicide 6 years ago. It was an enormous shock, and I've got to be honest, I can barely remember anything that anyone said or didn't say to me. I think I was in a fog TBH.

The only thing I can remember was in response to someone saying to me "I really want to extend my sympathies, but I don't want to upset you" I can remember thinking, "Nothing you say will hurt me as much as what I'm going through anyway; and if I cry, then that's one more cry on the road to me getting over this thing"

Anyway. My response to those who are suffering bereavements remains as it has always been. An acknowledgement of their loss, an expression of my sympathy and an offer to help. (I must confess to feeling concerned in the light of this thread that I might be doing/saying the wrong thing sometimes though...hope not)

SS - I am deepy sorry that you have lost your daughter.

Oh Travelling, I wish you did too. The rituals are hugely important and comforting, plus it gives everyone a purpose.

Also over here the graveside has huge significance. I have a friend who lost her 10 month old daughter 11 years ago. I often just drop off a bunch of flowers or a plant to the grave and spent some time there remembering her. My friend is always going there of course, and she notices when someone else has visited. I think that's a really good option for anyone who's just completely paralysed in front of the bereaved.

But this is a country where Sunday is grave visiting day and it's very normal to do that. I wonder how that would be percieved elsewhere?

Aitch you might be right. My sis lives in Italy and they have it too, (another Catholic country).

I don't know if even very religious people would say that to a bereaved parent (I could be wrong though)

We are not religious but had amazing support for over a yr from our local church and not once did the vicar or the bereavement visitor even talk to me about religion . They were compassionate and just there to listen without preaching .
The vicar did used to say a prayer sometimes but I figured that is his job ,

yep, it's the same here in the west of scotland i think. irish and italian communities make up the bulk of the population it sometimes seems. so i don't get the whole english stiff upper lip thing, quite the opposite, sometimes it can be too intrusive.

you are definitely wrong, tw. the idea of heaven is something that the older generation finds enormously comforting. back again to the 'one size does not fit all' thing, of course.

i have always found, both as the bereaved and the friend, that being very present is the best help. not being distracted or self-conscious, just sincere and sympathetic and taking cues from the person themselves. and being willing to take a whole load of shit from them, because their life is terribly unfair and they need to express that. and it's certainly how i've felt when i've lost parents, friends and unborn babies.

Well my vicar and random old ladies are very lucky they didn't even voice that to me . I can remember waiting for "The lord works in mysterious ways " comment and was fully prepared to let fly if anyone ever did .

You are right about the whol unfair thing . I often wanted to stamp my feet like an overtired toddler and probably did at times .

I think the whole thing is just so bloody tiring and actually physically painful and as much as we understand that we are not the centre of everyones universe it would just be nice when you have spent hours and sometimes days to pluck up the courage to face the world for a wee while that the world would try and make just a little effort and think before they speak .

"Annie I wish I lived in Ireland"

Well, I do live in Ireland and I can say I have had as many insensitive comments and as much ignoring as it seems those living in England get.

I'm sorry about your losses, Aitch.

I agree with the Ireland thing being perhaps more a RC thing. My DH is German RC and his family always visited the grave of his Opa when we went to visit Oma. Once Oma died, we still used to visit the town occasionally - they have a holiday home there - and I took DD and DS to "say hello to Uroma and Uropa".

It is comforting.

oh don't worry, abride, they're not raw wounds, but thank you.

Midori, I am so sorry to hear that. Frankly that's worse in my opinion, as people here do know better. They have been raised in a culture that faces death and loss.

Noone here has the excuse of "I don't know what to do or what to say" because they will have had the opportunity to attend more than a few funerals a month every month over the course of their lives.

I hope you are getting some good support also.

I think Midori's post proves that, aside of religion, society, culture and even personal history, that people really just divide into twats and non-twats.

so does that mean you think that someone saying something as inconsequential (to the sayer, if not the hearer) as 'have a good weekend' is a twat, sgb? because i just do not think so. i think it's okay for the person who is going through the bereavement to think that (whatever gets them through etc) because they will likely realise later that they were in a mood to lash out etc, but not for us on a thread like this to think so. iykwim?

Someone said earlier on this thread that they hated the "I'm sorry for your loss" that they thought originated on NYPD Blue.
I thought it was Irish in origin - and have always thought it was a good saying, because just saying you're so sorry someone has died can provoke the response "Why? What has it to do with you?" or "It wasn't your fault so why be sorry" when all you are doing is expressing sorrow for their grief. So to me, "sorry for your loss" is more appropriate to the situation. Having only lost my Mum (as the nearest relation) I am not qualified to comment for anyone who has lost a child - and can't imagine how awful that would be to deal with - but as others on here have said, everyone is different and will respond differently to the pain and stresses of the situation, so I can see that while it would comfort some, it would irk others. But that is true of many of the condolatory remarks that people make, I guess.