To think the behaviour of these mothers is shocking and they bloody well deserve a slap?

[SassySusan]

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I truly give up......night ladies...off, hopefully, to dream about my sons who are physically no longer here.......Sassy hope you are ok love xxxxxx

I am not worried about her because I think her reactions to the original comments and this thread are perfectly normal given the circumstances.

why, what have we done wrong now, shabba? it's a pretty intense power play, that head shaking thing.

? shabba ?

Sassy, can I ask you something? If the situation were reversed and it was not you who had lost your little one but one of these other women, do you think you would have done better than them and managed to say/do the right things? ( Obviously bear-hunt woman excluded, as no-one could do worse than that!)

ok, am side-stepping all the bickering as i believe the issue sassy has raised is a very valid one, worthy of discussing sensibly.

i wholly believe that sassy hasn't misinterpreted the hurtful responses she's received to the passing of her daughter... the subject of death in western culture is often a trigger for great anxiety, giving rise to inappropriate comments/actions towards the bereaved.

i think because, despite the inevitability of death, it remains a taboo subject and our dead and/or dying remain very removed from the living. this removal may lead to people (subconsciously or consciously) distancing themselves from people who have experienced a loss.

instead of being able to express empathy, they feel panicked and self conscious. if our culture wasn't so afraid of discussig death and disease, i truly believe it's collective response to dealing with the bereaved would be more compassionate.

Sassy
I am sorry that this thread has descended to this and has likely caused you more distress rather than being the outlet that you perhaps hoped it would be.

This thread has however helped. The many people who have posted on it, and the lurkers who have not now have a better understanding of how NOT to behave when we meet a recently bereaved person.

This is the thing that most strikes me. There is no right way to behave as every bereaved person will react differently but there are definate no-nos.

It seems that the most important thing is to take the lead of the person you are speaking to and if you do make an insensitive comment, APOLOGISE immediately for it and do not just laugh nervously, wander off and avoid the bereaved in future. That is not too difficult, is it?

Sassy

I was thinking about you last night. There is fuck all I can say other than I am so sorry this happended to you. I think things are probably so shit right now that nothing people say or do on here on this stupid web chat will even touch the sides.

but your story has touched me, and as Madame Lindt says I have learnt from it. And I hope others have too.

your anger is completely justifiable and understandable

blessings to your DD, and to your family

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"pretty intense power play" Aitch what are you DOING?!? why are you baiting someone who has lost her children? What is it for?

anyone who is going through this unimaginable hell can say whatever they need to say IMO. Their feelings are never invalid/unreasonable and it's frankly pathetic to start a ping-pong argument about whether they are being fair or not

some of the attitudes on this thread (especially mayorquimby's I have to say) beggar belief. Is there some sort of journalistic "look at me exploding taboos, I am so ground-breaking I can be "challenging" to a grieving parent" thing going on here?

unbelievably low

The problem with a thread like this is you end up feeling like the best thing is to never say anything, and yet I know someone (here in my house at the moment, ironically) who says that the worst thing for her after her baby daughter's death was people avoiding her. She didn't care what they said or didn't say.

This thread has been worthwhile. It has forced people to confront their own issues with death, and people have learned from it.

I think there has been this belief of "If I say nothing and avoid her for 3 months, she'll be better then and I won't have to"

That we all now know from this thread is so wrong. So wrong.

One of the constants I hear people say at funerals is this,

"It's ok now, they're surrounded by people, but we need to think how they'll be in a month's time, 6 months time a years time"

In Ireland we have what's called 'Months' Mind' It's a faith based thing I guess. At the one months anniversary everyone attends a mass to remember the person who has passed and it's usually followed by a coffee morning, or a lunch or whatever. In our village the ladies of the local WI put on a tea in the church hall. Months' Minds are posted in the local papers, so you know who's are coming up. I think it's a brilliant idea, because it gives you a chance to see the bereaved again and even if you don't go to the Mass, you can say, "Oh I see the Months' mind was last week, how did you cope? I hear there was a huge turnout...etc"

aww sassy

unfortunataely anger is another "normality" on the road to recovery

Some of your anger will be aimed at the right person for the right reason.. sometimes it wil be aimed at the wrong person for the right reason and sometimes it will be for no apparent reason.. but grief does this to you .. true friends will undersand and make allowances

Right now you are in the very early days .. I know you dont believe me but it does get better.. for now take life in baby steps .. and deal with each hour as it comes- this stage will pass

and remember "one foot in front of another and dont forget to breathe" copyright shabba circa 2008

I think its great that you posted on the main part of the site.. too often threads like these are consigned to the bereavement section. Now and again its nice to have these issue highlighted to a bigger audience

the best thing is to try and SEE how you think the person feels, throw in a careful remark, and take it from there.

There is no standard acceptable response.

You will have to use your feelers and try to be sensitive.

Ignoring is not good. Giving someone space if you feel they want to is different.

Point is, I think, you have to do SOMETHING to show the bereaved that you know and feel for them, and think if there is something you can do to help.

Nobody will bite your head off if you just go up and ask how someone is.

pixie.. the chances of you saying something that "will upset" the person more than the loss of their loved one is remote

Any tears you may provoke will most likely be because you touched that person's heart

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sassy, you seem determined to make this personal with me, i don't know why. i am responding to your continuing insults towards me with, i think, considerable equanimity. just as it should be, because you are clearly going through an unimaginably terrible experience. but i return to thinking that what you want is for someone to really get angry at you so that you can let rip at them.

and i would be interested to know why shabba was shaking her head at the posts last night in answer to pixie's question. were they wrong? if so, better to elucidate, surely, rather than and retire? unless the point is that we can never know because we'll never know etc, in which case this whole thread is just an enormous riddle that people who have not been through child loss just cannot answer and should not try to? that's increasingly how it's looking.

Pixie, in Ireland the usual opener, if you haven't made the funeral is this:

"I am so sorry for your loss, I was out of town and couldn't be there for you, but I hear the funeral was beautiful and the crowd was huge, how did you cope on the day?"

Then take the conversation from there. You're only asking about the funeral at this point, so you get them talking, not exactly about what has befallen them, but around it.
After that, you feel your way essentially. Some folks say, "Well it's part of life, we have to get on with it now." Other fall apart in front of you. Just use your own human empathy and instincts and you'll be fine.