To feel annoyed trees were cut down to print this anti-breastfeeding article

[cherrymama]

In the latest edition of Mother and Baby magazine (I bought it for the free gift) the deputy editor has an article about breastfeeding. In it she says that she "couldn't be fagged" to breastfeed and that breastfeeding her newborn using breasts that had previously been used for sex would feel "creepy". And that even the health benefits of breastfeeding "wouldn't induce her to stick her nipple in her bawling baby's mouth."

I think her attitude is horrible! I understand many people try to breastfeed and don't manage, but to say that it is creepy is another thing.

Well, I agree with you on much of that! Honesty both pre and post birth would be great; as would more support- most BF supporters talk about this a lot.

But I don't think FF are 'forced' to wheel out anecdotal evidence to defend themselves. They could just say: 'I had a lot of support but it didn't work out for me', or 'I didn't get much support with BF and that might be why it didn't work out for me' or 'I am aware of the health benefits but I didn't want to BF'.

"nobody tells you that.
and it does hurt,even if you are doing it right,"

I agree with you on that but I think it's partly because we all expect everything to be easy and sometimes it isn't.

Absolutely agree re. guilt. I would (and have) offer support to a friend who was trying and wanting to BF. I do so as gently as possible. If a friend then moves onto FF, I would be happy for them that their problems were resolved. I would tell them that they did a great job in BFing for as long as they did and should feel proud of themselves and I would reassure them that they must do what feels right to them.

Thank-you for your voice of level reason thesecondcoming.

People say that they have not judged me?? Perhaps not me directly, but I ff (which in order to defend I felt I had to put my reasons into the greater world). Many mothers I know did. Like my girlfriend who had a preventative double mastectomy because of the breast cancer gene in her family. Like another girlfriend who had a breast reduction on her 32JJ at 21 because of the pain, hump that was developing on her neck and ridicule of having such large breasts. We all ff.

It has been said on this thread that mother's that ff are 'shit', that ff is 'poison' and that 99 times out of 100 women can bf. This is critism and attacking of mothers in the deepest way. So yes although it has not been done to my face or personally by comments such as these I have been attacked and judged and every other mother in my position has been. It is no-one's business what reasons a mother makes for her feeding choices, she should not have to explain or defend them to anyone. This is something that a woman and her partner (if she has one) and her primary hcp should discuss and only them.

Never once have I said a bad word about bf or bf'ing mother's, read through my threads, I support them. However the same cannot be said for ff mothers. This is a huge double standard. It makes me very sad this is how women treat each other. This is not support.

I too am finding thesecondcoming's sarcasm and poetic license getting in the way of sensible debate and discussion.

People do sometimes post, describing how they managed to achieve breastfeeding despite huge problems. Why shouldn't they? It is an achievement, and something they feel is worthwhile and important to them, and they want to share. How unpleasant to read that this is the equivalent of [insert TSC's sarcastic parody of these posts] and that they are denigrating other people's problems. The posts I see like this almost always include something like 'I am in no way saying everyone has to be like me' or similar.

I did not say that the evidence on obesity, IQ and illness is not used in bf discussion. Of course it is. I was saying that people do not say 'if you want your kid to be thick and fat and sick, use formula' - but apparently I am not meant to take this sarcastic parody seriously, or it's not what people actually say, but it is what the 'assumption' is (WTF?).

And you are quite wrong in assuming that people know about the health effects of infant feeding. You can't assume that. There are a number of papers exploring this, and there is a sizable chunk of people who think formula is the same or almost the same in its health effect as breastmilk. Even supposedly informed people believe this, and I have come across several individuals (in NCT classes) who don't know (or who have never considered) what formula milk actually is - it's not all that unusual for people to guess 'is it dried breastmilk?'.

thesecondcoming you are talking so much sense. Thank you

I just wish the whole debate would be more open - you should be able to discuss the reasons people give for FFing, and not necessarily to criticise them! As I said earlier, the choice to FF is (IMHO) more a symptom of the culture (boobs are for sex etc) - we cannot possibly address that or change it until we start talking about it properly

ticktockclock - no one has said on this thread that ff mothers are shit or that formula is poison. The 'poison' word has been used by people saying 'formula is not poison!' and in one post, as an ironic prediction that the next article in M&B might say this. I don't know why you would say this thread has included comments that have not been said.

I think the post that said something about 99 times out of 100 problems can be overcome if women want it badly enough is guilty of a touch of naivety, that's all.

thesecondcoming - I think it's a shame you did not progress with the peer supporters course. It would have taught you that pain is not inevitable, being rooted to the sofa is not inevitable, and the early weeks are not always awful.

Really??

I have a 5 week old and am breastfeeding (constantly!) and to be fair I can understand the "cant be bothered" feelings but I am doing it. In some ways I understand that to publish alternative views to the very pro breastfeeding wagon may be helpful, especially in helping those mums who cant or who dont want to.
but it sounds extreme, selfish and irresponsible in her role!!

Morloth - as far as I'm aware FM isn't made using cow's milk products as that isn't recommended until 1 yr old.

Whether I agree with the journalist or not, she like anyone has the right to express her feelings. These feelings may anger/repulse some but may reassure or chime with others.

Honestly feeding on demand would be a right pain in the arse if you bottle fed.

A mother and baby magazine should stick to WHO guidelines and promote bf, surely there is room for ff too but in an article looking at the plus side of both. Not the negatives of bf.

Whilst being generally very pro breastfeeding, I have to say that I was in a lot of pain in the first 2/3 weeks (both times), I did feed constantly and the early weeks were awful.

I think that it is helpful to acknowledge how difficult it can be at first. I had lots and lots of support the first time around and was pretty knowledgeable and confident the second time ... and it was still difficult.

I will be using formula with this baby and used formula with DD. I only know of one mum in my RL who breastfeeds. She said she was forced by midwifes after her DS1 was born at 36wks and felt she didn't have choice(she was 18yrs at the time).

I want my body back to normal asap after the birth and went back to work when DD was 9wks old. Was much easier for me to use formula.

I have read lots and lots on the benefits of breastfeeding v formula. I was fed formula and so was my sister we did not have weight problems/health problems that are now being associated with formula.

Yes to breastfeed is natural and obviously best for baby but not every mum is in a position were they can. Formula in my opinion is just as good.

I read that article in the magazine and can understand why the mum wrote it. Everywhere is so pro-breastfeeding you are meant to feel ashamed and guilty for using formula.

mouth - sorry, formula milk is cows milk. It has had the protein content modified to make it less indigestible by young babies, and it has some additives in it. But as you can see from reading the pack, the major ingredient is skimmed milk.

What did you think it was made of? I am not being critical of you not knowing, as I am aware than many people don't know, but I am interested in what you thought.

I tried BF and failed miserably with dd1 she was always feeding and HV advised a bottle as she was a hungry baby.With ds he was a dream to feed unfortunately he had severe reflux and was very sick every time he fed so went on to a feed that had to be cooked.With dd2 I didn't even try I couldn't face a 3rd failure.

Women who FF are also rooted to the sofa for extended periods, aren't they? And then they have to wash all those bottles and make up feeds - I seriously couldn't be fagged to do that.

The pain (which is very real for many women - I found BF a breeze but it did hurt to start with) is a small price to pay for not having to faff around with measuring spoons and sterilizing equipment.

The thing is though, it is just food and FF is adequate (if a PITA I'd imagine). 10 years on I feel able to say that, in the scheme of things, BF-ing is important but not the be all and end all of being a parent. I think some of the types TSC describes (I met many of them, too) would do well to remember this.

mumtoblaire - your baby, your choice...but how can breastmilk be 'obviously best' but formula milk also 'just as good'??

I don't get it

I have FF and BF and the first couple of weeks, both times, seemed to be spent stuck on the sofa. That is new babies for you.

On balance, though, once I got the hang of BF it is far easier and far, far cheaper. Washing and sterlising bottles turned into a big chore and TBH I resented the money spent on FF because I had so wanted to BF.

I also used to get very stressed on a day out when FF just in case I ran out of milk. I never had to worry about running out when I BF.

Formula milk is just as good when circumstances dictate. Do you need to know each and every individual situation. As in my case formula milk was definitly better than breast milk filled with; Tramadol, morphine, rizatriptan, codeine, heperin, and the list goes on.

Breast is best in MOST cases. Not all. Every individual and situation is different. Mothers should be respected and supported for their choice.

Mouth ? normal cow's milk isn't recommended as a main drink until a year old. Formula milk is cow's milk that has been processed to make it suitable for babies.