To feel annoyed trees were cut down to print this anti-breastfeeding article

[cherrymama]

In the latest edition of Mother and Baby magazine (I bought it for the free gift) the deputy editor has an article about breastfeeding. In it she says that she "couldn't be fagged" to breastfeed and that breastfeeding her newborn using breasts that had previously been used for sex would feel "creepy". And that even the health benefits of breastfeeding "wouldn't induce her to stick her nipple in her bawling baby's mouth."

I think her attitude is horrible! I understand many people try to breastfeed and don't manage, but to say that it is creepy is another thing.

Hope you're enjoying your course MathsMadMummy, I loved being a peer supporter but unfortunately I suffered with PND for a while which made it very difficult for me to attend the groups. I hope I can go back to supporting once DD is at school and I have more time to give.

The group I was part of was very supportive and I remember a lovely and very experienced peer supporter telling a tearful woman that it was perfectly ok to give her baby formula; that it was not poison and she must do what was right for her. (By this point the poor woman had been given a lot of BF support and was at the end of her tether).

The vast majority of BF supporters genuinely want to help. I, too, blame the state of our society and the FF companies for the low BF rates; not individual women.

desanimaux - 9 out of 10 women who switch to formula before their baby is 6 weeks wish they could have continued to breastfeed. It is unusual for formula feeding to be a real 'choice'.

What are the 'scare tactics used by BF fanatics'? I think pointing out the health effects of infant feeding is reasonable - no one sensible thinks this mean any individual child will be obese, unintelligent or small (there is no research showing ff children are smaller than bf children - have you imagined hearing that ff affects height?). The research shows more bf would make a difference at population level. No one can predict what will happen with one child.

I have been involved with bf support for quite a long time, and I have met probably hundreds of bf supporters in real life and on line. I don't recall any of them using scare tactics, and while there have been very rare incidents when mothers who use formula (whether by choice or not)have been denigrated, this has been swiftly responded to - on every occasion.

I don't care about which side is more zealous: I think the complete sexualisation of normal functions is unhealthy.

I really don't agree that the bf 'side' are more vocal than the ff 'side'. That's not been my experience. I know far more people who ff than bf so the bf 'message' has always sounded much quieter in comparison to the 'happy mum, happy baby'; 'freedom of choice' message of ff.

I don't understand what you mean about you and your family members not being cited as examples of bfers. In what context? For what reason?

thesecondcoming - my experience of breastfeeding supporters is that they do understand other views. Part of training, part of understanding the nature of support, the place infant feeding has in our world, is to understand other views, other influences on people, other options people might select, other pressures etc etc. You have to have a degree of empathy.

tinkletinkle - it is though - i have found other pieces in M&B lately quite offensive and wrote in to complain about 'viewpoint' last month because it insisted that dads dont want extra paternity leave and cant get on with baies. dh was quite hurt by it!

good point tiktok re: the individual effects vs population level effects. there's a lot of 'well you had FF and you turned out ok!' (and BTW I am loving the training course thank you - graduation this Saturday! )

"i've never sat and told someone about how it's better to bf-it's not my place to-can you not see how that gets peoples backs up."

that's part of the problem IMHO (not you personally TSC!) - even MWs/HVs don't feel they can push the subject. not just talking about BFing here, but as a society we're getting more obstinate and resent anyone telling us what to do even if it's for our own good (or for the baby's good). if you ask a mum if she's going to BF and she says no, it's like a wall goes up and you can't even say 'oh, why? have you considered BF?' (IME and according to friends anyway)

oh oops I meant Olifin, yes thank you the course is good

thesecondcoming - now who's sounding intolerant? The people on your peer supporters course had their babies in slings and co-slept and this was the reason why you could not share a short (20 hours? 30 hours?) course with them? Because you don't do these things? And there was a huge gulf between you because of it?

Where on earth have you read or heard anyone saying 'want a thick fat sick kid? then formula feed, you lazy cow'...where is this the even hidden message?

I agree that part of normalising breastfeeding is just to sit and do it - and that's powerful. Do you see no role at all for people to learn a little bit more about it, and to help people with the many inevitable problems that emerge? Or you only want non-co-sleepers, non-babywearers offering this help? Surely not.

She is perfectly within her rights to hold those opinions and to express them. However (without reading the article) it sounds from the quotes posted here as though the tone and language used was inappropriate and unhelpful especially given where the article appeared and the target audience, which is disappointing.

It seems to me that women spend far too much time validating their own choices by being defensive about them and by criticising other women's choices, particularly when it comes to parenting.

lol @ "you are always going to struggle to persuade the 23 year old who's no experience of bf in her family or amongst her peers to try it."

that's me you just described!

I just think in some cases, mums just don't know about BFing. if FF is all they know. It's different in your personal example, you know BFing is better and you'll be doing it for 12 wks or whatever transpires. I've spoken to loads of mums who FF their first and go on to BF other babies, and they wish they'd known more about BFing.

just seen this

tiktok You took the words right out of my mouth!

Who is it who makes a colossal 'look at me' fuss about BFing? I don't think I've ever seen anyone do that

Blimey. I used to work on the next mag along from M&B (as in, sat within three feet of their desks) and would have been shocked if anything like that had been run when I was there. Very strange article indeed. If you are going to be provocative, you need to work VERY carefully on the tone of voice and accurate information. Especially when talking to new mothers who are under a lot of pressure.

lol well ACTUALLY I was 20 when DD was born (found BF very difficult though)

I'm really not sure that most mums know BF is healthier. Some mums actually think Formula is powdered human breastmilk!

thesecondcoming Do people really say kids? Or do they talk about the evidence about obesity and IQ?

Ooops, meant to be thick, fat obviously!

And no, no-one should get a medal for BFing or for not BFing but women should get support to do what they want to do and both 'sides' should avoid using offensive and inflammatory language about other mothers' choices.

"my view is that the bf 'side' do seem to be more zealous\vocal than the ff side."

Do you think that might be because bfing women get shunted into the toilets to feed when in public places, get tutted at when feeding in restaurants, sometimes get ignorant and offensive comments aimed at them, get asked to leave certain places FFS. And FF is still seen as the default setting inspite of the fact and statistics that bfing is better for the mother and baby in a myriad of ways.

Being zealous and vocal in support for something that is good for a baby is wrong why exactly? And being zealous and vocal in support of bfing does not equate to saying that people shouldn't be allowed to feed their child with formula for any reason.

thesecondcoming No, I didn't see that thread. Your sarcasm is getting in the way of your point a little though!

I have not heard anyone in RL speaking like that.