To feel annoyed trees were cut down to print this anti-breastfeeding article

[cherrymama]

In the latest edition of Mother and Baby magazine (I bought it for the free gift) the deputy editor has an article about breastfeeding. In it she says that she "couldn't be fagged" to breastfeed and that breastfeeding her newborn using breasts that had previously been used for sex would feel "creepy". And that even the health benefits of breastfeeding "wouldn't induce her to stick her nipple in her bawling baby's mouth."

I think her attitude is horrible! I understand many people try to breastfeed and don't manage, but to say that it is creepy is another thing.

I love mother and baby magazine but must admit after reading this article will never be buying it again. Made me feel sick why oh why would they print that??????

clpsmum - will you write in and tell them so, do you think?

Just seen this reply from the editor:

www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=126495294055317&topic=124

Haven't read the 20 pages.

I don't see what's so wrong with the article - the point of it is surely that is about one woman's experience, and not an attempt to 'promote' anything.

Like most women, I'll read anybody's personal experience stories until my eyes bleed - I'm nosy like that. I think that it would be a shame if we were only able to discuss BF in a 'promotional' tone of voice, when it is an individual thing. We are not members of the gvt or an advertising agency are we, we all just speak for ourselves.

I think from reading these endless round and round debates on here, one major issue for new mothers is that while they may have good intentions re BF, they find that the reality is actually much harder then they anticipated - that is surely part of the 'promotional' culture surrounding BF isn't it.

So the women try their best, can't manage it, feel failures and beat themselves up etc etc for failing to provide the best start for their baby.

I think most women are intelligent enough to read an article by one person talking about their own experience, and not go 'Oh! that is all pure fact. Well, I'll do what she did then, despite all the advice to the contrary'.

I don't like the idea of silencing mothers who have something to say about their experience.

MOrris - would be a good idea to have read the thread, long as it is

We have at length discussed the fact that of course the woman can write what she wants. But with that comes some accountability for what she says. It's not a question of only writing promotional stuff - it's a question of respect to breastfeeders and formula feeders. Some of the ff on this thread feel upset as the writer strongly implies that everyone who stops bf has the same views as she does which include a feeling that bf is creepy.

Anyway - read the thread and you'll see.

But why does she have to respect BF or FFers?

Why can't she just write how she sees it?

This is quite honestly the only subject I can think of where one person's view cannot be openly expressed, and must come with disclaimers etc.

Somebody mentioned the five a day thing. If I read an article by an individual saying god, I hate fruit, and I'm not convinced it's that good for me anyway, and it's expensive and it gives me a sore tummy, I'd just go 'huh' and read on.

I can't imagine a 20 page debate ensuing in which two warring factions attacked each other for their attitudes to guidelines about healthy eating.

It's because it's about motherhood and womanhood that this subject kicks off such strong feelings. I for one simply don't get it. And I've never seen in in RL either, only on here.

MorrisZapp - would you feel differently if it was the Deputy Editor for a Health mag that wrote 'God, I hate fruit, and I'm not convinced it's that good for me anyway, and it's expensive and it gives me a sore tummy?'

Cake....and added that eating fruit made her fat and ugly, too, and that there was something about unpeeling a banana that was 'creepy'

Oh, and that she 'couldn't be fagged' to buy apples, and that she thought the 52 per cent of people who did not eat fruit felt exactly the same way?

that's given me the first laugh of this thread, tiktok!

"This is quite honestly the only subject I can think of where one person's view cannot be openly expressed, and must come with disclaimers etc. "

Really? Try listening to debates about weaning early, or CC, or elective caesareans. There is no area of child-rearing that can be openly discussed without the fear of offending. And IMO bfing is one area where there are so many ill-defined and illogical opinions that should be challenged. Why is it 'creepy'? The reasons for those feelings need challenging surely?

Ok I've made an arse of myself and I can see that.

I still think she's entitled to feed her baby any way she likes and talk about it openly though, regardless of what mag she edits.

Orm you are right, there are loads of topics on here that cause war, that don't seem to cause a ripple in RL.

And they're all to do with how people choose to raise their kids. That's why they're so emotive.

So, the lady in the article finds BF creepy. Those are her own feelings, and she's being honest. Why shouldn't she be able to express a view that is taboo or against the prevailing advice?

Lots of women say they don't BF for similar reasons. It's easy to say 'oh what silliness, breasts are there for feeding' etc on here, but clearly many people simply do feel it's sexual or creepy.

And I agree that in general, that view can and should be challenged. But it shouldn't be censored or silenced. It is a view held by some people, and as misguided as it may be, they have a right to their feelings - imo.

at Morris's frank admission of arse-making!

No prob - I think this is what happens when people don't read the thread!

No one has disputed she can think what she wants and write what she wants - but with that comes responsibility, esp in her position.

Tiktok - just wanted to add more support for you - you have come across as very well informed, and intelligent.

Unfortunately, as seems to always happen in these threads, the FFers have come across as defensive, and feel it necessary to explain exactly why they couldn't BF.

FFers are coming from a position of power here - only 52% of mothers are still feeding at 6 weeks. How many are still feeding at 3 months? 4 months? Formula is the norm in this country. A quick flick through any baby magazine will tell you that. Adverts from formula companies are all over them.

Breast is best. No-one can deny that, but in this thread, no-one is saying that mothers shouldn't have a choice. (actually, one person did, but she was shot down by those more knowledgable)

There are adverts to promote healthy eating, help to stop smoking, to drink cautiously. Do those of you who eat junk, smoke, drink heavily feel as patronised by these adverts as you do being told that breast is best? No? I thought not!

tiktok;

I log on and see you haven't made much progress toning down the condescension - "I think this is what happens when people don't read the thread"

Oh, FFS, animation - give it a rest with the personal comments, whydoncha? The comment to Morris about not reading the thread was good-humoured and supportive - and I am pretty sure she would take it that way.

You, on the other hand, are ready to imagine something condescending and to take offence on her behalf, for some reason. Go and lie down in a darkened room or something.

(Thanks for the kind words, tutusare4.)

tiktok;

That doesn't work on me.

You don't think your comments are condescending then?

no I see no condescension from Tiktok

Something's working on you though Animation. You're nit picking and getting unnecessarily personal. What's REALLY needling you?

Just to pick up a point made by mistletoe and mathsmadmummy (I think) - the reason ff is increasing in India and Pakistan is because the formula companies are actively marketing and advertising ff in those countries. They are positioning ff as something to aspire to, an indication of status. Poorer women also then want to ff and if they do, they then have to find the money to continue, or if they can't they often water down the feed with terrible consequences for the baby. Or they have to spend a huge proportion of the family food budget on the baby when by bf this would have been free.

I'm sorry to keep banging this drum, but it makes me SOOO angry, because it can literaly be a matter of life and death in these cases.

If a woman can afford to and choses to ff her baby that is one thing so long as she has accurate independent information to base her decision on, that is one thing, but to ACTIVELY promote ff is completely wrong and should be banned completely.

I think Tiktok can speak for herself.

giveittomebabylikeboomboo; how am I getting personal?

oops - got a bit over excited and started repeating myself

I have been reading this thread with interest over the day, inbetween feeding my 5 week old baby.

There seems to be two different arguments going on, one about freedom of the press and another about breastfeeding.
I am struggling with BF at the moment, and am trying to get as much support as possible as I dont want to have to give up. At the suggestion of my midwife, I have occasionally been FF.
My main problems with this article are

• that I dont want to be associated with this attitude, and would be horrified if people saw me giving my son a bottle and assumed that I belived BF to be 'creepy' and 'i couldnt be fagged' to give him the best start in life.

-the tone of the article is antagonistic and cruel

-that somebody struggling to choose how to feed their baby may be swayed. Everyone should have the freedom to make a well educated decision and then have it respected.

Reguarding the debate between some of the more vocal posters, I have seen no evidence of any ''haranguing'' or ''condescension'' from anybody.

Correct me if i am wrong, but i have only seen one person on this thread who never even attempted to BF, and she now admits she might think differently now. So everyone else does not actually agree with the articles opinions, but has personal motives behind their arguments.

I have felt guilty when giving formula, and read leaflets stating that ''BF reduces cot death'' but I recoginse that the statement is still true, and makes me more determined that I want to make it work if possible. I dont feel that such a statement is propaganda or spurious, just because i would rather not hear it!

peakylovessummer,post something in feeding,there would be lots of helpful advice I'm sure .good luck.
morriszapp,I have heard lots of strange and depressing stuff said about bf,but I have never ever heard anyone before call it "creepy",so where are these "many"people?
I also think it is naive to assume that just because you are confident enough not to be swayed by someone elses oppinion,that others are all like you.I am reasonably confident,but if I read an article,in ,say,a medical magazine,written by the deputy editor,rubbishing something I was wavering on,I might be swayed.She does have a responsibility,this is not her mouthing off at a dinner party,this is her expressing frankly bizzarre and dangerous notions to women who may be very vulnerable and sensitive to suggestion and comment.