To feel annoyed trees were cut down to print this anti-breastfeeding article

[cherrymama]

In the latest edition of Mother and Baby magazine (I bought it for the free gift) the deputy editor has an article about breastfeeding. In it she says that she "couldn't be fagged" to breastfeed and that breastfeeding her newborn using breasts that had previously been used for sex would feel "creepy". And that even the health benefits of breastfeeding "wouldn't induce her to stick her nipple in her bawling baby's mouth."

I think her attitude is horrible! I understand many people try to breastfeed and don't manage, but to say that it is creepy is another thing.

MrCK - I'm not really sure why you would care, to be honest.

By all means feel pissed off that some women who wanted to BF didn't get the support they needed. But to find women making a choice offensive, seems very odd to me.

I am quite chilled out thanks.

I just find it laughable that any ffers could actually feel they have a worse time than bfers in the UK today.

But then on so many issues here on MN there is the not so distant whiff of the middle classes knowing better that the hoardes and finding them distasteful...

you know the thing is with parenting that it is ALL about personal choices and what works for one mum/baby/family will not work for another and we do all need to learn to be supportive of each other.

i think the article is disgusting purely because she has published it in a bloody parenting magazine ffs!

she may THINK that bfeeding is creepy, well fair enough that is her view but to express it in such a negative manner in a magazine that is FOR pregnant women and mothers of young babies IS offensive.

i have strong views on many aspects of parenting, but many i keep to myself because i DONT want to offend or upset people, just because they choose to do things differently doesnt make them any less of a mother, we just have different views/experiences.

its easy to offend mothers and we really need to think about WHY we are saying what we are saying, is it to be helpful, or is it just because it makes you feel a bit smug or self satisfied? i think many people are managing to misinterpret posts on this thread. i CAN see why, i feel SHIT for not bfeeding my youngest son, utterly shit. BUT that is MY issue and i try and make sure it doesnt cloud me when reading threads such as these.

why do formula feeding mothers seem to feel the need to get so defensive? i feel it myself at time but then bfeeding mothers also feel got at, i actually feel that in some places you CANT say anthing positive about bfeeding as the impression is that you are being negative about ff, which is not the case at all but that is how its interpreted and it seems that by daring to criticise this article some people are being seen as being negative about formula feeding! its bloody crazy.

btw my parenting 'view' relate to dummies and controlled crying, i know whats right for me and MY children but i wouldnt say that its right for everybody.

This thread is rather unpleasant but am genuinely quite interested in how FF is the "norm" in some places, not for any good or bad reason but as I feel that it is not really an option for me and feel and felt a lot of pressure to breast feed. I genuinely do not know anyone who FF, maybe they all do it really. I think I would find it liberating to FF.

Am going to keep breastfeeding up until week 7 as apparently it may get easier , thats only 2 weeks away.

"But then on so many issues here on MN there is the not so distant whiff of the middle classes knowing better that the hoardes and finding them distasteful..."

Personally I have always found MN scornful about each class, depending on the day. Wrong to say you can't survive on £40k, but wrong to say living on benefits is better.....

Probably is a bit of a socio economic (i.e class) issue TBH. It is that cultural thing again, if BF reaches a critical mass in any group it is going to be seen as normal for that group.

MC women also have more power and time etc, they can buy help.

pamelat i think it depends who you know, where you live

what i will say is give it a bit of time but whatever you do please dont beat yourself up about it

5wks is very early and it sounds like you are doing really well, you can express soon and then baby can have some milk from a bottle so you can get a bit of a break.

the early days ARE bloody hard work, dont let anybody tell you its not xxx

This really does seem to depend on where in the country you live though, doesn't it. I wouldn't go as far as to say that you would have been stoned for FFing a small baby here 10 years ago, but you would have received some very stern looks. Everyone breastfed (or so it appeared).

MrsClaireKhaw - saying you will take it back and then adding another equally offensive comment, just not mentioning dogs this time, doesn't really help, you know. Sheesh.

thesecondcoming - what is 'working' to encourage mothers who are less likely to breastfeed (and it's not especially brave to say this is younger, working class mothers, because this is what the stats say) is probably the increase in community support and better help at the beginning in the maternity ward. Having said that, the latest stats don't show anything dramatic, just a continuation of the very small, steady increase in bf that's been seen over the past 10 years or so.

I don't think telling people that BF is best, or the 'risks' of FF, is actually the same as 'trying to make FFing mums feel guilty' etc. It is stating fact. Maybe people just get defensive because they perceive it as 'having a go'.

If we could all just be open and honest about our choices without slagging each other off we could all be happier.

exactly mathsmadmummy, i agree but it IS interpreted that way, that we are trying to make them feel guilty. when in actually fact i know that many, myself included do that quite well ourselves hence why i make sure that i stand back a bit and dont let myself get emotional.

pamelat- I think its really good that you've set yourself a target (and it is true, in my experience, that BF gets easier and more enjoyable for most women). It's a shame though that you feel under such pressure.

pamelat - you'd maybe get some good info and support in the breast and bottle feeding folder.
AIBU is not the folder to get this sort of response IME.

'Normality' in feeding choices depends a lot on area, I think.

I used to live in Brighton, where BFing was very normal; as was home birth, co-sleeping, sling-wearing, home-schooling and so on. I have moved a few miles along the coast now and it's a very different story in this town.

I agree Housemum: basically she seems to be 'printing what some women may be afraid to say out loud'. I BF and just couldn't contemplate FF, but I didn't actually enjoy BF, I was just locked into giving my baby what I thought to be best. I'm glad I BF, it was good for the baby and myself, and after a hard start it was wonderfully easy and convenient, but I still can't honestly say I enjoyed the experience in itself (out all the people I know who BF I seemed to be alone in feeling this way). It would be a shame if this article put off new first-time mothers from giving it a go though - a proper go where you have to do it for a good few weeks and not give up at the - what can be difficult - beginning!

tiktok

"- the single post saying 'formula is poison' was an ironic comment on the offensive falsity of the M&B article, not a thinly veiled version of what the poster thinks" - It certainly was!! You don't make an "ironic" comment saying ff is poison. If the same was said about BM there would be outrage. Because it is completely and utterly false.

"Human animals are supposed to feed their young human milk, feeding a human infant the milk of a cow can't be as good. It isn't so much that breastfeeding has benefits, more that FF has detriments."

"Women feeling shit about this and not wanting to hear it doesn't change the facts." - The facts are that every woman's circumstances are different and FF often saves babies lives. Not wanting to hear it?? Why do women feel shit?? From comments like these.

"I don't think telling people that BF is best, or the 'risks' of FF, is actually the same as 'trying to make FFing mums feel guilty' etc. It is stating fact. Maybe people just get defensive because they perceive it as 'having a go'. "

Risk of FF?? See this is exactly what I am talking about. This is negative. You do not know each and every case, it is not for you to make a blanket statement deciding this. This is inaccurate.

I am pro-choice for everything. It is hard work being a woman and a mother they should have the right to choose what works best for them in their lives without the petty judgement of others.

Best advice from a friend who breastfed 3 children and who I actually avoided cos I felt so bad about giving up at 3 months "Don't worry, it's nice to do, but it's not the end of the world". Which advice I now pass on to anyone who asks my opinion of BF as opposed to FF. Formula saved my prem DS's life IMO, shame it took an 'old-fashioned' HV to pinpoint what the problem was and recommend a solution that owed nothing to BF facism or middle-class trendiness.

Which issue is it in? June or July or August 2010?

Sorry, I mean May, June, July?

Breastfeeding is super hard work. I did it 9months. Hope to do it again this time. Formula feed must also be handwork, just a different way. I would feel guilty if I didn't do it this time as would feel children not had equal start, if I need to do ff at any point I will and I wont feel guilty at all......every parent is just doing their best,, who cares what people think?! Regards bf in public I did it everywhere, v easy and never had a bad word, mostly kind looks, admiring comments from grannies when baby sat up looking round and trying to drink my latte. As for this pregnancy, the boobs are ready, so are the bottles,,,,,and the dummies! Oh but they are a whole other area for mums to judge each other aren't they........also the mag article was just giving a point of view, may have bothered some readers and others may hav really identified with it.....

Eeek! 'BF fascism' is a bit harsh desanimaux. Quite offensive, actually.

ticktockclock have you managed to find the post where someone said that formula was 'shit'? (I think it was you that said there was one; apologies if I've got the wrong poster).

This post sums it up really

"It seems to me that women spend far too much time validating their own choices by being defensive about them and by criticising other women's choices, particularly when it comes to parenting."

Amen to that.

I also agree with much of what thesecondcoming has written in this thread (I have a moby sling and have coslept a few times, but you'd never know it to look at me disclaimer - this is a JOKE please don't anyone take offence).

Am BFing my six week old. Very lucky in that I've not experienced any serious problems (cracked nipple in first week - ow! - and usual cluster feeding exhaustion only)with feeding and that my baby is thriving. Lots of women aren't so lucky and there is an attitude among some BF advocates that you MUST continue whatever difficulties you face and if you don't you're selfish/weak/putting your needs before baby's.
I don't agree, as a HCP I was trained to consider patients in a holistic manner and if someone is worn out, in pain and depressed due to difficulties with BF I'd have no hesitation in thinking they AND their baby would be better off with FF.
BF is the ideal for baby, but so is parents with good mental health.
If BF is making you miserable, we live in a country with clean water etc so it's nobody else's business if you switch.

Having a CS seems to be the same sort of thing, a pregnant friend was asking about mine and another of her friends (had a VB) said "don't worry it's all about positive mental attitude you won't need a CS" - oh fuck off. I wanted a home birth but we'd both have died if I'd insisted on keeping a "positive mental attitude" about that.

Let's all stop being horrible about each other and help and be friends instead.

soz didn't mean to go on so long!

Also, there was bugger all BF support in hospital. I went home the day after my section, all they did was pass me the baby for the first feed and then check her latch once on the second day, said she looked fine go home and good luck! They were so understaffed on the ward I only got one lot of painkillers the whole time I was there. Women aren't going to BF in big numbers til the government get behind it and provide enough MWs and support workers.