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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to sometimes think that I am the most feminist person here?

163 replies

stubbornhubby · 18/06/2010 23:19

I have been on MN for only a short time and I have to say it is fun I like it here.

but I do despair: I sometimes seem to be the most feminist person here! Almost every thread seems to have women willingly subjugating themselves to their "D" Hs Ps Cs and ILs. Washin and Ironin and Pickin Up, being treated terribly but 'deserving' it (and DH rarely means it), happily changing names, wearing rings, and doing what the vicar tells them.

Or AIBU?

OP posts:
HerBeatitude · 19/06/2010 09:42

The battle's over?

Oh, OK, the glass ceiling doesn't matter, the pay gap doesn't exist and the fact that your DD's have a 25% chance of being raped but will probably not even report it if they are, is all OK in your view?

What a tolerant woman you are to be sure. I'm not so tolerant of these inequalities as you, doubtless that means I have a chip on my shoulder.

Rollmops · 19/06/2010 09:44

Yes, dear, you are - have a cookie.
Men are absolutely fabulous. Long may they 'last'

HerBeatitude · 19/06/2010 09:46

Are you addressing me Rollmops?

activate · 19/06/2010 09:49

happily changing name, wearing rings and sharing a life together including all the chores does not a subordinate woman make

you can be a feminist and choose to do the washing you know

a chose to change my name because we wanted a family unit

I chose to wear rings because I like the shine

I choose to share the chores

and I choose to occasionally bitch about my other half for comic effect

I also choose to have children, a career and be in charge of the family income and expenses

Northernlurker · 19/06/2010 09:57

Wedding rings - if you and your husband both wear one then it is a symbol of your commitment to one another. I have to say I'm always very about marriages where husband doesn't wear wedding ring.

TSC 'i am not going to send my kids out fighting a fight that is imo largely over.i am not sending them into the world thinking they are being discriminated against when,imo,they probably aren't. ' - yes you're very wrong there I'm afraid. The treatment of pregnant women and women returning from maternity leave, the rates of violence against women, the choices we make - and feel we should be making all say you are wrong. I want my girls (mother of 3) to know they can achieve what they choose but I also want them to understand the historical background to their position in society. I want them to understand that choices and power won't just arrive on their laps and that if you don't keep your eye on the ball you'll end up like England - no score. You can call it a chip on your shoulder if you like - I prefer to call it the weight of female experience down the ages.....

Northernlurker · 19/06/2010 09:59

Oh and I changed my name because it is nice to be recognisably part of our family unit and dh's surname was nicer than mine , also higher up the alphabet so that my dcs aren't always last on lists like I was!

Rollmops · 19/06/2010 10:06

Nope, OP.

thesecondcoming · 19/06/2010 10:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Downdog · 19/06/2010 10:11

oooh I never knew there was a feminist section on MN - get's better every day. see ya!

Lavenderboo · 19/06/2010 10:18

Bit of an old fashioned view of feminism!

MN is born out of feminism (we could get into a thing about grass roots political movements, sisters' doin' it for themselves etc but it's a bit early for that).

Why wouldn't P's, H's etc be 'D'? 'D' can stand for dear, delightful and occassionally dickhead.

If you don't want to do domestic chores don't. Don't moan about it though. Moaning is not a political act, it's just a bit tedious.

Magalyxyz · 19/06/2010 10:29

Dittany is my leader. I agree with everything she says, even if I didn't realise that until I read it. I have learned a lot from her. I've learned from SGB what is unacceptable in a relationship. I already knew what I felt was unacceptable, but she has chrystalised for me why certain behaviours shouldn't be tolerated for a quiet life etc.

I may not look like a feminist as at the moment I don't have a job and I look after my two small children (quite hapilly) but unlike a lot of women I am not prepared to sacrifice one tiny part of my life just for some man's convenience, which seems to be the norm for so many women even today, and it's quite depressing really.

Magalyxyz · 19/06/2010 10:35

Thumbwitch and SumoinsizeZero, I am shocked by how many women are being treated appallingly by their 'd'Hs and yet terminating the relationship doesn't seem to be an option !! They detail the proof that their (d)H is a selfish/lazy/misogynist/cheater/workaholic/abuser and yet they say 'I love him' or 'I don't want to split up'.

Arghghghghgh

HerBeatitude · 19/06/2010 10:43

But thesecondcoming - not misleading your DC's about women's position in society, is not going into battle about the least little thing.

Raising them to be aware of the implications of the least little thing, enables them to make the choice of what to do battle about. Just as an example, it's good for girls to know what's behind the beauty requirements they face and/ or the way teenage boys may treat them - then they can choose to accept or reject, rather than see it as simply "the way things are".

Above all, people need to be aware that they have choices. And they don't know that if they don't know why the world is the way it is.

Magalyxyz · 19/06/2010 10:49

I have to correct myself, SGB has made me realise that I shouldn't even feel the tiniest bit apologetic about finding the sexist/selfish/misogynist (within a relationship) behaviours unacceptable. Before, I might have thought that people thought I was being too unrealistic! or too 'fussy' or too awkward. Now I make no apology for having my eyes wide open because that's all it is.

southeastastra · 19/06/2010 10:51

no, i'm the most feminist person here and so is my wife

thumbwitch · 19/06/2010 10:54

"Thumbwitch and SumoinsizeZero, I am shocked by how many women are being treated appallingly by their 'd'Hs and yet terminating the relationship doesn't seem to be an option !! They detail the proof that their (d)H is a selfish/lazy/misogynist/cheater/workaholic/abuser and yet they say 'I love him' or 'I don't want to split up'. "

Umm, yes - but why have you aimed this at me, please?

Magalyxyz · 19/06/2010 11:00

Reading the thread back now, I really don't know. I thought I had nodded agreement at something you'd said but it must have been somebody else I now realise.

FellatioNelson · 19/06/2010 11:12

HerBeatitude - 30 years ago it woold have been assumed that the woman did the laundry regardless of whether she worked or not - yes, you are right and probably to an extent, still right today. But then again I think it's fair to say that there have always been certain jobs men are expected to on top of a day's work as well! don't know about you, but I never go up a ladder to get stuff out of the loft, mow the lawn or change a car tyre if I've got a handy husband to do it.

FellatioNelson · 19/06/2010 11:27

I agree with thesecondcoming. Maybe there is still a glass ceiling and a pay gap because women continue to choose take career breaks for children, or to opt out of th jobs market altogether and be a SAHM, leaving a higher proportion of men to women in the market. Not because a bunch of dastardly men are consiring to keep women down, and chained to the kitchen sink. We can never change that so long as women choose to have children. Only when we can make men pregnant will that change!

I think there can be barely any areas of business and industry (in the industrialised western world) where a woman cannot get equally as far or further than any man if she is willing if she desires it, and does not expect her job to fit around her children.

Original poster
stubbornhubby · 19/06/2010 11:31

I think I will fetch my coat, and change my name

OP posts:
Magalyxyz · 19/06/2010 11:45

In Scandinavian countries it is more acceptable for fahters to take paternity leave (longer than two weeks I mean) then employers will have no logical reason to discriminate against women, particularly in terms of small businesses hiring women or men...

My x was entitled to take 2 weeks PL but only took 3 days as he felt that this was the unwritten rule in his office.

BongoWinslow · 19/06/2010 11:48

Not a comment on anyone on this thread, but just something I find interesting - who is the one who changes their name.

I didn't change mine but don't mind if others do - the thing that bugs me is that it's women who are generally expected/assumed to be the ones who will change if someone's going (not that women are expected to change per se).

I often find (but this might just be my experience) that men find the suggestion that they change their name hilarious/odd/wrong. It's this that I think is the problem - it's so strange, so unthinkable as to be absurd. But not at all strange if a woman does it.

So for me there's nothing wrong with having a family name, but it will be nice when we have a more even split between which gender does the changing.

Just my two cents.

Oh, and by the way OP - I have in fact never found the threads on MN to be particularly non-feminist in the way you originally suggest. And I teach feminist theory... and I wear a wedding ring!

gothicmama · 19/06/2010 11:55

I beleive in the feminist pricipals however I have seen a gradual erosion of the freedoms women gained in the 80s adn how we have a patriachial view of feminism which basically is not goodit is not right and I think we (not sure who we is) should seek ways of making society equal for all, my daughter shoudl ahve teh same opportunities and pay as my sons she shoudl not have to worry about her choice of clothes or fulfil a media induced stereotype of how she should look, and behave she should not have to live with a 25% chance of being raped. Equally my sons shoudl not have to live with a greater chance of death between 15 and 24 years old, they should not feel they have to be macho or not be able to be creative.

Psammead · 19/06/2010 11:58

"And I do think there is a certain unfeminist type of deference that runs through many of them .... an eagerness to excuse unreasonable behaviour."

Isn't that known as forgiveness? As in someone you love fracks up and you forgive them? And doesn't that work both ways? Not sure what that has to do with being unfeminist. Surely that's just known as being in a marriage and trying to make it work. Being a feminist isn't about being a hard-arsed bitch who hates men or something.

It annoys me when people are surprised that I consider myself a feminist. I am a SAHM (my choice) and in quite a "traditional" relationship. And I am STILL a feminist. And so is my husband. And we are both masculinists too!

Just13moreyearstogo · 19/06/2010 12:06

I've been married 15 years and it's been reasonably happy. I don't wear a ring after my original one was stolen and I prefer it that way. I sorely wish I hadn't changed my name. My maiden name was much more distinctive and cooler than my husband's. Sometimes when we get mail addressed to Mr and Mrs (his initial and surname) I feel like I've completely disappeared. I'd be happy for the children to have his name and for me to have mine, but I guess it's too late now.

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