to sometimes think that I am the most feminist person here?

[stubbornhubby]

I have been on MN for only a short time and I have to say it is fun I like it here.

but I do despair: I sometimes seem to be the most feminist person here! Almost every thread seems to have women willingly subjugating themselves to their "D" Hs Ps Cs and ILs. Washin and Ironin and Pickin Up, being treated terribly but 'deserving' it (and DH rarely means it), happily changing names, wearing rings, and doing what the vicar tells them.

Or AIBU?

Oi, curryeater - I'm a feminist and a linguist, and split infinitives are just fine.

Feminism isn't just about making personal choices - it's about making choices that are good for women in general and which do not perpetuate a misogynist world view. So a woman who "If their choice involves willingly subjugating themselves to their "D" Hs Ps Cs and ILs. Washin and Ironin and Pickin Up, happily changing names, wearing rings, and doing what the vicar tells them" she is not a feminist because her personal choices do nothing to challenge a traditiona view of women as subservient to men.

That is what being a feminist means. It means making the personal, political.

I'm not sure about the feminist thing, but I do agree that I am often very shocked at how many MN's have husbands who treat them like dirt.

OK I apologise - my initial post was born of exasperation and was intemperate and AWBU.

I accept there are plenty of feminists here.

But I was making a serious point, let me have another go, in a more reasonable manner.

Last night I was browsing through a number of threads (not threads I have posted on) but typical MN threads on parenting, relationships and AIBU.

And I do think there is a certain unfeminist type of deference that runs through many of them. A willingness to do what men say, an eagerness to excuse unreasonable behaviour and an expectation that men and women will be held to different standards of behaviour.

Am I completely wrong?

Now, of course you say that's not deference: that's realism. The world is misogynist, chauvinist place, and so it is. But feminism is about seeking to change the world, not accepting it.

Anyway, I read a couple of particular examples thinking 'gosh I hope my daughters don't grow up thinking like that' and in exasperation made my post. Then emptied the dishwasher, took out the beer bottles from the England game and went to bed.

whatever you say, you're probably right dear.
cup of tea?

Marking for when Dittany turns up

It has to be remembered (and sorry if I am being too obvious here) that people do generally only post in Relationships, parenting etc. when there are problems in those areas.

So the women in equal marriages, where the man pulls their weight and generally doesn't behave like a misgynistic bastard, aren't going to post.

When the DC are playing up, granted they could be DC of women in equal partnerships, but some of the time they won't be, because inequality in the parental roles can be a contributory factor to bad behaviour in the DC.

If everything is hunkydory, we don't need to post because there are no problems to discuss (or not ones that present these pictures).

I think I can say this for a lot of people, oh feck off.

I'veBeenSuccinctAllWeekIWonderIfThat'sAStageTiggaxx

The thing is, someone has to do all those things don't they? So we all have a choice. We either both work FT and share everything else split 50:50 (which in practice rarely works because men seem to have an entirely different way of prioritising household chores and are generally a bit rubbish at most of them) or we accept that one of us needs to earn whilst the other child-rears and keeps house. Or we pay someone else to do all of it for us.

Or we just come to some arrangement that suits us/keeps us all sane and ticking over as a family unit. Personally I think it's got f-all to do with feminism which one of you does the laundry.

Yes there are people on here who have somehow accidentally married rude ignorant lazy pigs, and then look to us for confirmation that it is indeed so.

Most women do not feel a burning desire to be 'feminists'. We already feel equal and valued enough without needing to pin lables on our chests proclaiming what we are, and what we will and will not do as part of the job description.

YABVU. Anyway, you are not even the most feminist person on here...have you seen Dittany's posts?!

What exactly does "feminist" mean anyway?

stubbornhubby, sorry but I think you're totally wrong. I don't think there is a certain type of deference on here at all. And even if there was, IF that person CHOOSES to live their life like that, and it suits them, then why would that bother you? Feminism is about choice, and a woman (or anyone for than matter) should never be chastised for the choices she makes if they suit her and her life. It's not for you to decide.

You have a very unsophisticated understanding of feminism stubbyhub.

How many people are there on MN? Yes, a small proportion of them put up with shit (and are generally told they shouldn't). A larger proportion think that it is normal to have to put up with a certain amount of shit, within limits. But equally there are many many people on here who are in fairly equal relationships and don't think that men are better/different/should be in charge. You probably don't see them in the relationships threads asking for support and/or sympathy, because their relationship doesn't have those issues. Maybe they have other issues, but if they're not about control/feminism/whatever then you won't notice them when looking round with that viewpoint.

"i've not told them to expect a struggle to be equal as they are more than equal and are judged on their own merits"

Then you are misleading them. Women are not just judged on their own merits, if they were, there would be no such thing as the pay gap, the glass ceiling, the 94% non-conviction rate for rape, the assumption that you're the secretary not the boss, the requirement to conform to beauty norms, etc.

As for who does hte laundry having nothing to do with feminism - of course it does. 30 years ago it was simply assumed that the woman in the house would do it, whether or not she worked full time. The very fact that you think ti should be the job of whoever happens to be next to the washing machine at the time, regardless of sex, is a result of feminism. And millions of women still assume it's their responsibility, jsut because they're women. How can that not be something to do with feminism?

If marriage is prostitution why don't I get paid more?

Is the discount for
a) cellulite
b) headaches
c) arguing

awards self -self indulgent today

The idea that one cannot be a feminist if one changes one name or irons a shirt is complete and total bollocks. Or total cuntflaps if you object to male domination of slang words.