To think we should look after our own children?

[ContentedVanilla]

Why do people choose to have children if they don't want to actually do the job of looking after them? What are you getting out of it if someone else is looking after them?

If you and your partner both want a full time career then why have you chosen to have a child?

I'm not just being a bitch, I really am genuinely curious as to what people's reasons are and what makes them want children.

I read on another thread that a lady dreads the days she is not at work but at home with her child. Is it a case of not realising what it will really be like until you've done it?

Sorry, didn't mean that to sound as confrontational as it reads. My point is that the nucear family idea and the fact that thesedays people have to go to work, rather than work alongside their children (men and women)makes the whole thing more difficult than ever before. Fathers would have been around a lot more in the past than they were in the twentieth century; carpenters, fisherman and whatr have you. They were able to work with their kids around.

No, I guess I'm talking about pre pre school. None of my dcs got upset at 2.5 montessori.

Two of my three were upset when they first went to nursery school at 2.5, one of the three was very upset when he started in reception at 4. It is absoloutely no different emotion wise to them crying for you if you leave them as babies.

Some children thrive in day-care, some find it harder. Just the same as some children find starting school harder than others.

I know many mothers who would be just as horrified at you (and me) sending a 2.5 year old to nursery school as you are at people putting babies into daycare.

But it is all about what works for each family, nobody can make a sweeping statement which applies to everyone.

Having read all your responses I am now going to question myself to see whether I have the same opinions.

There may be some truth in me having a bit of a self esteem problem with not having a career. I'm just thinking about whether this was my deeper motivation for starting this thread, although I don't think it was.

I didn't love my job, only moderately liked it. It wasn't a 'dead end, unskilled' job but wasn't a high status career either. I was good at it before I had children, but then with children on my mind, and tiredness from childcare, and the fact that I was only then doing the job 2 days a week instead of full time like before, so not so 'practised', I became less good at it I think (although my boss says not). Being less good at it than before was having an effect on self esteem.

Although I left the job because the tiredness from doing that and childcare was making me a bad tempered mother and I felt it was having a bad effect on the children (so I should have had some feeling of satisfaction that I was doing the right thing) I also felt like a failure. I failed to manage to be a good mother and work part time and I wished I had been 'strong' enough to do both.

I admire people who do both.

There is a lot of truth in the 'accusation' that I don't have enough self confidence to 'prove' myself in a demanding career. Self confidence was always a problem but I was gradually working on it and doing gradually more demanding jobs. When I got 'worse' at my job after having children it set my self confidence in this area back and I think I have less faith in myself now to be capable of going back to a career. It is true that the thought of it frightens me.

So maybe there is some resentment there that women who have good careers and children are better than me.

Having said all this, it didn't feel like any of that was on my mind when I wrote the OP. I felt angry when I read someone on another thread say that they worked most of the time and dreaded the time they spent with their child. I felt that even if people don't realise how hard it is being a parent until they do it, they should not then 'give up' almost, and try to 'get out of' doing it. The child didn't ask to be born, the parents made it happen, so they then need to put lots of effort into doing a good job of looking after him/her, even if it is hard.

I've found myself agreeing with articles written by Oliver James recently. The reason I feel so strongly about it is because I have past issues to do with neglect. So does he. Maybe then, I should question whether this means I feel oversensitive about it. (And whether he does too.) I don't feel that both parents working full time is as neglectful as some things that I experienced as a child. Maybe I am reacting too extremely to anything that looks anything like neglect.

I have an issue with two women and one man in my life who neglected to do what they should have done for their child because of their own selfish reasons and weaknesses but maybe I am translating this to ALL parents, especially women, when the negative feelings about it should be more confined to those specific people.

Just the fact of both parents working full time maybe a lot less bad than I think, if they aren't doing it because they can't stand to be around their children who they find to be an irritation. If they are giving them all the input (not materially, but emotional input and time and interest) that I felt I didn't get, as well as working, then maybe it isn't as bad as I think. It must be very hard work to do all that though and people who manage it must be almost superhuman. Is it really possible?

If I refine what my 'issue' is, I think it is with parents who don't like being with their children, find them just an irritation, and have had them just because they feel they should 'do a bit of everything' in life or because it is 'the done thing' or the 'respectable' thing but they don't really want to do the work of looking after them. I probably shouldn't assume that the situation of both parents working full time always equals this. Maybe most people in the world are not as rubbish as the specific people I am angry with.

Yes it's possible CV, just don't expect to watch TV or have much of a social life that doesn't involve your kids.

Dh and I tag team all the time. He works nights, I work days. He mopped all the floors before he went to bed this am, I made dinner for tonight before I went to work.

We're going biking with the kids tonight, so everyone including the dcs will pitch in on chores this evening before we go.

We also run a small holding (we're nuts!) and the kids love to pitch in with that.

I'm the one with the 'career'. I'm on email after the kids go to bed and before they get up. I carry my crackberry everywhere, but they accept that'd the trade off if they want to maintain the nice life we've created.

I also have a standout childminder who is incredibly supportive and our families have practically merged.

It's all about organisation in our lives. No one is neglected, and everyone gets a fair say on how they feel the family is doing.

It helps to have a boss who is in the same situation, I will say that.

will be going back 8 weeks after having dc 2... why? those are the limits of my maternity rights where i live and my dh is a student...judge me at will vanilla. and yes sometimes i find gong to the park with my 2 year old boring

I work full time in a demanding job. I have no choice in the matter unless I decide to quit work, lose my house and live on benefits. I can't get a lower status less pressured job as I am over qualified for those type of roles.

There are times when I don't look forward to spending time with my ds. Mainly because if I am not at work I am home with him. The only time I have to myself is the evenings once he is in bed and I have organised everything for the following day. Usually no earlier than 9.30pm. I work some distance from where I live so I am up early every day and ds is dropped off and collected from school wraparound care.

Some times I find everything utterly exhausting as I really don't seem to have time to myself whilst I am awake. I had half term week off and arranged for ds to do an activity every morning. That worked well as I was able to have some time to myself (to do housework without ds trying to 'help') and see friends (whose children weren't at home either!). That allowed me to feel rested and then spend the afternoons with ds doing activities he wanted to do. I know I wouldn't have enjoyed the week as much is I had been looking after ds all day every day. If that makes me a bad parent then sobeit.

that should read so be it!

I think it's good of you to come back and reevaluate your opinions, CV. Perhaps there is some truth to the angry at specific people thing - many people lead busy lives that include work, but still find plenty of love and time for their children.

I totally resent the implication that because I work full time (even though I don't have to) it means I am in some way neglecting my DS. I also object to the implication that I admit to not enjoying every minute of every hour I do spend with him I am equally remiss.

I work because I want to and it is an important part of who I am, while I am at work I make sure my DS is well looked after in a safe, interesting, caring, social environment where he gets to do alot more activities than I would be able to do with him at home every day.

I love that each day when we get home from work / nursery he and I have tea and talk about our days (he is 3) - I ask him questions and he tells me what he has done and I (sort of) tell him about what I have been doing. There is then time enough for playing and bathing and story time.

Granted as another poster has said it means I don't get to be alone with my DH or even just with myself until 9pm, but thats the trade off.

I also know that the time I spend with him at the end of every day and on the weekend is more interactive than I would be able to do if I was with him all day.

Oh and don't talk to me about not doing the work of looking after them - does the work only happen during the day? Do you think women who work don't cook their kids meals, clean their clothes, get up in the middle of the night 5 times to settle them even though they have work in the morning, comfort them when they are sick or upset, make sure they brush their teeth, wipe thier bottoms, teach them to read, write, draw, speak, teach them manners and then have time to play and have fun with them too ....

I do all of that and fit it into every morning , evening and weekend, it would be easier if I was at home - but if I had to stay at home and do that all day every day I wouldn't be happy. I have utmost respect for SAHM's its the hardest job in the world and I don't think I should apologise for saying you know what - thats not for me - does that mean I shouldn't have children, just because my maternal instinct does not extend to sacrificing my own happiness entirely to conform to model so people like you won't judge me?

I respect the OP for coming back and re-evaluating their opinion - but whatever happened to live and let live?

I live in the Middle East and having been stuck at home for a year with the coffee morning crowd who are competitive mothers and bakers, I celebrate the full time live in maid and full time job. If you want to stay at home then great, if you need to work but don't want to you have my sympathy but personally cannot think of anything more boring than sitting around drinking from spotty Kath Kidston mugs and stressing about whether a 4 year old is the best swimmer in it's year.
I can't bake for toffee and couldn't care less who is the best swimmer and love working full time, it stops me being a dull fusspot like my contemporaries.
I do genuinely sympathise about financial constraints for those who have no choice but no sympathy for people who say things such as you. In my experience this is exactly the kind of person who lets their children run riot in the supermarket and watches them fondly. Look after your own as best YOU can and leave the rest of the world to do the same.

helyg

My line about anyone looking after my dcs is that my dcs can tell me all about it and express their own needs. But it's my line.

I think that even if parents struggle to enjoy their time with babies and toddlers, they may well be better with older children. I loved my DC even when they were tiny and messy but I actively enjoy their company more now they are older.

Orm, I absolutely agree. I really think these are golden years in my family. Dd13, ds9.

ContentedVanilla I think it's brilliant that you have come back and written out all your thoughts on what people have said. Good for you

What bothers me is that all the working mums' responding to this say 'because I HAVE to work'. It smacks of guilt and defensiveness and that's sad if so.
I DON'T have to work. But I love working, it is fulfilling and it pays well and I have a great career. My dh works full time but from home. I take dc to school, he picks them up.
I am nuts about my dc and we are v bonded.
Contrary to popular belief 'full time' working mums do actually see their kids!! Like, err in the morning before school, after school for hours thru bath and bedtime, middle of the night stuff, weekends, holidays etc etc.
Don't know why I've fallen into OP's trap by responding but there u go!

I have to say I didn't always like being with my kids when they were small. Playing with playdough, doing jigsawas, etc can become mind numbingly boring after a while. I was a SAHM for 10 years and I did find it ultra boring at times. I don't think that made me a bad mother. THey are much more interesting now!!

CV, I loved your latest messasge, and I'm glad you've really thought about why you posted, and how others have replied.

What is boils down to is that we're all very different, and thank goodness for that! I'm a crap SAHM, both me and my kids were miserable when I did SAH. Now I work full-time and I really enjoy the time I spend with them instead of hating every minute.

Other women are brilliant SAHMs and are miserable if they have to go out to work.

Some working parents neglect their children.

Some SAHPs neglect their children.

But luckily, most of us manage to find that happy medium that works best for us, and we end up with happy kids and happy parents.

You're not a failure because you didn't manage to get a good balance going when you worked. And I'm not a failure because I was so crap at staying at home. We are who we are, and we do what we have to do. As long as you're OK with your current situation, that's all that really matters.

If you're still a bit worried that you 'failed' in your career, give it another go when your DCs are a bit older and a bit easier, maybe more than 2 days a week (which must make it very difficult to get a decent amount of work done). Good luck!

Well done,ContentedVanilla for coming back & facing your critics.

I'm sure even the folks whose feathers you ruffled shall appreciate it takes guts after the pasting you've had on here!

well said AnnieLobeseder

Applauds Cheepz.

Thank you CV for rethinking the issue.

I agree with Annie that the last post by CV is far more reasonable and rational and explains her feelings about why working and being a parent didn't work out for her.

I still fail to see how that translates into starting a thread entitled " AIBU to think we should look after our own children?" I think the thread title is at best, unhelpful misinformed, and at worst, is quite nasty in an underhand way, implying as it does, that if a parent works, they are somehow not responsible for also looking after their children. Which is patently untrue, and pretty insulting to working parents (which is most parents!)

Why not start a thread for genuine discussion along the lines of "I have really lost confidence since giving up work", or "I found it difficult to combine parenting with work - have others have similar experiences?"

That would be a far better way of generating discussion on the topic.

had similar experiences

Well done for coming back CV. I do understand your reaction to the comments you read, but I think perhaps you interpreted the comments in the worst light.

Do remember that just because a parent says they don't want to/can't bear to spend ALL DAY, EVERY DAY with their child, that doesn't mean they don't love their child very much, or like spending SOME time with them.

It just means they do not enjoy spending all day, every day with them. Some people find endless hours with a small child very frustrating/boring, and aren't any good at it. Maybe you are, but not everyone is.

Remember also that those people didn't necessarily know they were going to feel that way before they had the child. They may have looked forward to hours of creative play/baking/whatever, only to find that in fact they were no good at it and were going slowly mad.

In those circumstances, they have to work out what is best for them, and the child.

Personally, I think it's better for both parent and child that a parent who is bored/frustrated by constant time with their child should delegate some of that time to someone who is better at it - a nursery or CM perhaps.

The parent will still see their child plenty of other times, and may have a better relationship with them as a result.

The child gets the best of both worlds - time with someone who is good at and enjoys playing with children, AND time with their parents, who maybe aren't as good.

At the end of the day, as long as the child is happy, what does it matter?

On a different note:

CV, how do you feel about parents whose child goes to boarding school?