To think we should look after our own children?

[ContentedVanilla]

Why do people choose to have children if they don't want to actually do the job of looking after them? What are you getting out of it if someone else is looking after them?

If you and your partner both want a full time career then why have you chosen to have a child?

I'm not just being a bitch, I really am genuinely curious as to what people's reasons are and what makes them want children.

I read on another thread that a lady dreads the days she is not at work but at home with her child. Is it a case of not realising what it will really be like until you've done it?

ladies I think the only criticism is from people on MN sometimes!!!! fuck it, ignore it, its a load of shite. I think that pagwatch (again, what are you on today!) sums it up nicely.

we are actually very very lucky if we think about it, and we are most likely the first generation where men are having a far wider role in childcare too

Not in this house, porcamiseria but that's my doing

Point well made and taken though.

sigh

lots of this thread looks familiar

i don't like the derogatory remarks about sahps

i think people are assuming we are talking about women and then getting uptight about it

i do believe young children should be given the opportunity to make strong attachments - mum, dad, gp, key worker etc and if i had to work i would choose a nursery with the lowest turnover out there

why can't a parent opt to stay at home and be supported in that decision by govt

why do people assume if you don't work life with the kids is really dry - it doesn't have to be - life is what you make it - including when you stay at home

those shouting 'judgey pants' (how MN is that !) are judging the harshest also

love my children very much, had them because i wanted some children to love, also want to have career and be fulfilled intellectually and professionally and not stay at home all day cleaning the floor.

Though have no problem with anyone if they had children and do want to stay at home and not work - it is not a choice open to me anyway as I have bills to pay - but if you want to stay at home and that is what makes you happy and you can afford it, then brilliant - good for you. Happy mums make happy kids!

Pagwatch, Rubybuckleberry & Fathersday have all given some really well-written,balanced & non-aggressive posts just there.
Much better than I could write!

but fathersday - why on earth would you choose to clean the floor all day if you stayed at home?

Um, people have children for a myriad of reasons.

And those reasons aren't necessarily to finger-paint with them in the early years.

I have worked f/t since DS was 3.5 months old!

We're ,ucky re working possibilities: since that time DS and I have both worked flexi-time / the equivalent of one day a week at home, so that he has been in childcare 3 days a week. Since he started school we work alternate v long and short days so that one of us picks him up from school. Throughout we have been with him mornings, evenings, weekends and all of our holiday time. WOHMs DO spend lots and lots of time with thier children - and make sure that there is high quality childcare that they feel happy with for the rest.

We do happen to need 2 salaries, but the reason that we are in badly paid work is that we both really enjoy our work / careers. DS understands that, and he has alsways lived a nice life. I had a child to love, to care for, to nurture, support and see grow up happy - and that is exactly what is happening.

It is a very small slice of society in a very small slice of time in which parents have been able to dedicate the whole time of an adult to child-rearing. Subsistence lifestyles, or very heavy domestic duties, or a need to earn income have always menat that childcare has fitted in and around other jobs.

I spoke to someone at work today - we were discussing other things really, but touched maternity leave. She said her job at the time (15 years ago) required her to go back to work full time after 6 months. She explained how rough it was at times rushing between drop-off at grandparents, rush to work, rush home, etc etc. Yet later she talked about her children, the bond they have, you could just hear the love. And then things they do and say - have even done work experience in their mom's workplace before. You could hear she was proud and that they loved seeing that side of their mom.

So really, even though I'd prefer not to work full time, it was so lovely to hear how it could work out really really well.

So if anyone reading this is working full time not out of choice, I thought I'd just share this. I'd love to have that bond in 15 years. Working or not working wouldn't guarantee that. How you parent does.

may i suggest a few things. Many people on this board would dearly love to be SAHM but need to be in work so that they can afford food for the children. Othjer people choose to be at work as they like the mental stimulation which it provides. Both are valid and difficult choices to make.also, child tax credits are being cut in the budget and i believe nursery vouchers are going the same way. This is even if you are eligable for them in the first place. I n addition to this, many couples gain a moirtgage which relies on BOTH sets of wages so taking one set out of the equation would leave a severe deficit in income. We have moved on quite a way simnce the days of women staying at home with children because society deems it necessary, although it is a damn hard job to do and i am in awe of SAHM as they get vilifies in the press for not being ambitious. Thank you for reading this contented if indeed you have now fuck off please.

Here here rimmer. I'm fed up being bashed by some stuck up cow who married into money so doesn't have to work.
I don't answer to her and I would respectfully ask that she keep her narrow minded, spiteful opinions to herself.

have dragged the children from the joyless daycare orphanage,that stark loveless hole i pay so much for.they have cried themselves to sleep about their loveless life with absent parents

have finished work,rummaged for comestibles
channel hopped and sweet fa on telly
time to catch up another why have children if..... thread

Oh do feck off OP

Oh do feck off OP

Blimey one track mind or what. I have to work full-time as my dp does not earn enough for me to keep house and care for our much wanted and loved children. Does not mean that we do not deserve to have children because we cannot sspend 100% at home. Get a life and stop striring as your obviously bored

the nub of this is inability to conceive purposeful intent and enthusiasm about returning to work.i wasnt coerced,dragged,crying i was happy to return to work.i want to work

You are lucky. That's all there is to it. That doesn't necessarily mean you have the right to judge everyone else because of your situation.

If your situation were ever to change, your mindset would also change too. People do what they have to do to survive. It really is as simple as that.

I think you know this.

"My mum was a single parent and worked full time and I feel we definitely missed out.We did however see her work ethic and it did pass on to us.I made a conscious decision to put work on the sidelines for a few years as did dp.We could have earned more and had new cars holidays etc but we got so much out of just being at home with ds and being involved with teh school etc. "

noddyholder, this is exactly the way I see it. I do think that if they can, both the mother and father should prioritize children in their formative years. Unfortunately the working culture in most countries does not allow for this, which leaves people having to choose between work and caring for their children themselves. If society valued children more and the people who had them, then they would make it easier for parents to progress in a career, despite taking time out to raise children. After all, children are the reason society exists: it's not the other way round, is it!

anyhow - just to throw something else into the discussion

The concept of childhood is a really pretty modern idea, (concept of teenagers even more so) (UDHR drawn up in 1948.........it took some 40yrs before the UNCRC was drawn up).

So it's taken society a very long time to realise that children have differing needs to adults, blah blah blah.

So the concept of what is "best" for the child is still evolving, especially I guess with the rise (albeit a far too slowly) of women's equality.

There is a battle between it being best to see their mothers out at work (because now woman have much better oppotunities and are more able to use their skills in the workforce) and that of them being better off looked after my a parent at home in their formative years.

So in man instances you have this "clash" of social progression, and it ends up with instead of women encouragin each other to do the best for their family they end up fighting among themselves as to who has got it "right"

'the nub of this is inability to conceive purposeful intent and enthusiasm about returning to work.'

Exactly!

Let's face it, some people are not very good at their job, or are stuck in a boring low status job, or lack the self confidence, skills and organisational ability to get out there and prove themself in the workplace alongside other adults. I suspect the OP is one of these. And she secretly knows it, which is why she's bitter and envious. If she is content with her decision, then why on earth would she start this thread?!

You can be absolutely brilliant and very successful at your exceedingly high-status job and still know that your family would be happier and benefit more from your taking care of them yourself . That is modern woman's dilemma - being more skilled than she has time available.

MisSalLaneous - Great post, thank you

By violethill Tue 15-Jun-10 06:33:38
'the nub of this is inability to conceive purposeful intent and enthusiasm about returning to work.'

Exactly!

Let's face it, some people are not very good at their job, or are stuck in a boring low status job, or lack the self confidence, skills and organisational ability to get out there and prove themself in the workplace alongside other adults. I suspect the OP is one of these. And she secretly knows it, which is why she's bitter and envious. If she is content with her decision, then why on earth would she start this thread?!

That just about sums it up, not content in just expressing the good things about working but has to bitch about people that don;t work not being good enough to work. Must tell that to my friends who have all given up or taken long leave from their fabulous careers to have children.

I chose to stay at home with my dcs, well the choice was made for me, and I am very happy that I do. For mothers that don't habitually leave their dcs it is a difficult thing to understand. And vice versa, I'm sure working mothers think it quite odd to let a few tears settling into nursery get in the way of their working life. It's all emotional. I couldn't bear to leave my child crying for me with anyone, I think I should listen to that cry. Some people don't want to be manipulated by that emotional pull.

So Posie, will you/do you home educate?

Genuinely interested, as when DS1 started in Reception he screamed the place down every morning. The Headmaster would have to physically take him from me. I left in tears myself most mornings.

I wasn't "manipulated by that emotional pull" because I felt that school was the right place for him.

"The concept of childhood is a really pretty modern idea,"

toccata, the concept of the nuclear family is even more modern. You can't say: childhood is a modern idea without taking into consideration just how different life is thesedays.
I completely agree that it's ridiculous that children are not given adult responsibilites until the age of 18. 14 year olds were running businesses and homes in the recent past.
But I don't see how that has anything to do with babies.