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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think we should look after our own children?

423 replies

ContentedVanilla · 13/06/2010 15:28

Why do people choose to have children if they don't want to actually do the job of looking after them? What are you getting out of it if someone else is looking after them?

If you and your partner both want a full time career then why have you chosen to have a child?

I'm not just being a bitch, I really am genuinely curious as to what people's reasons are and what makes them want children.

I read on another thread that a lady dreads the days she is not at work but at home with her child. Is it a case of not realising what it will really be like until you've done it?

OP posts:
porcamiseria · 14/06/2010 09:40

thanks! I work FT and I dont feel in the slighest bit criticised by this, and nor I should

funnysinthegarden · 14/06/2010 09:51

Riven Thank fuck indeed

Zondra · 14/06/2010 09:59

No,you defintely should not!

I just think you've articulated what I've been wanting to say concisely & to the point.

Some of the working mums & their sheer defensiveness & agressiveness have turned this thread into another slanging match.

I just don't think that was the real debate here,the old Working Mother Vs Stay At Home Mum.

I seen it as about mothers who had kids but,really do bugger with them & are bored by them.
This could either be a sahm type with the au pair & nanny or the woman who works all God's hours sends & still in her spare time parks them off elsewhere.

What IS the point?

If kids are boring,mundane & so utterly life-sapping to you that you'd rather work yourself to the bone or leave them with your Estonian au pair whilst you quaff white wine,then don't have them.

sarah293 · 14/06/2010 10:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

toccatanfudge · 14/06/2010 10:14

welll I would offer roll-ups again but I'm out of filters

Bonsoir · 14/06/2010 10:14

Cortina - your post illustrates something that I see around me: too much domestic help severely deskills people.

funnysinthegarden · 14/06/2010 10:17

Estonian au pair.......if only

ben5 · 14/06/2010 10:22

violethill just putting a spanner in the works! yes i know women left school at 16, bills were cheaper etc. just making a point! i don't get benifits they look at my husbands wage and say we're not entitled. the tax man then comes along and takes loads off! if i went back to the job i did before i had my 2 ds i would pay more in child care then i would earn!

OrmRenewed · 14/06/2010 10:22

"If you and your partner both want a full time career then why have you chosen to have a child?"

I think it is about WOHM (or dads). You can interpret the way the thread has gone anyway you wish but the OP was about exactly that subject.

ben - my parents managed because they had no mortgage. Houses were cheaper. Life was cheaper. My gran left them money which basically bought their first house. Not to mention the fact that with no family around childcare would have been hard.

Cortina · 14/06/2010 10:24

Bonsoir - I agree, although I think that we are talking about a very small group of people who have a huge amount of help.

It also seemed that the children of this group would often go spectacularly off the rails later on. A mother would typically say 'but we gave him everything' and I'd think everything but your interest, love and time.

Children would be brought out at parties to do a turn or a twirl, like something out of The Great Gatsby...then sent off again to the nanny on the top floor.

I realise that not everyone in this very fortunate position of privilege would behave like this but whilst in my job, where I saw what was really going on behind the scenes, I have to say it was far more common than I realised.

Bonsoir · 14/06/2010 10:27

Cortina - I agree, it's a small minority, but one that often has a lot of power and influence.

The two children in my DD's class who behave the worst (hitting etc) are the two children whose families clearly have the most domestic help.

TheBoyWithaSORNedMX5 · 14/06/2010 10:28

I can't really remember 40 years ago, but I do remember 35 years ago.

In our little street, of the five families with DCs, the mothers worked in all but one (and her DCs were both under 5 last time I saw them). Even she did some pretty harcore party planning (Tupperware, clothing, stainless steel of all things).

My mum worked in a shop, couple up the road both worked in a factory FT (one night, one day shifts), one was a nurse, other worked in a new-fangled supermarket.

None of us were wealthy but nor were we poor. Working outside the home has been very, very normal for a very long time. And before that of course it was only affluent women who stayed at home anyway (and the wealthiest of those had nannies to care for their DCs whilst thy sipped G&Ts and played tennis - much like today really).

Even my grandmother worked as did her mother before her (former because she wanted to, latter out of necessity having been widowed in WW1).

pointissima · 14/06/2010 10:32

Having a child should not be a question of "what one gets out of it". I have a child and would have liked to have had several children. I also have a demanding career. Sometimes it is difficult to combine the two but I make the effort:
1)because I believe in taking responsibility for myself and my child- if my dh fell under a bus I would still be able to afford the school fees
2)because it enables my dh and I to share equally in bringing up our child and in financial responsibility
3) because work sets a good example and I want my ds to see that women are not necessarily dependent
4) because I enjoy having a broader range of experience than I would being at home with small children. My dh and I never lack something to talk about.
5) because one should use one's talents
6) because children are only dependent for a relatively short part of one's life

There are things I would have done much better had I been a sahm; but on balance the above outweighs them

Cortina · 14/06/2010 10:33

Interesting, Bonsoir, that was my experience too. A sort of benign neglect going on. I saw that years later often the children didn't know how to love when they formed relationships of their own, they never known it from their parents you see. Many had values based on status and power but never love.

ILoveFrogs · 14/06/2010 10:36

"I also said people who choose to work full time, not people who have to in order to survive. Although I don't believe that many families have to have both parents in full time work to survive."

I don't want to just 'survive', I want to live and have a decent life, therefore my partner works full time and I'll be going back to work full time from my maternity leave in 2 weeks.

ben5 · 14/06/2010 10:42

like i said i'm planning on going back to work when boys are in full time school. wouldn't be able to afford to go back otherwise. not all of us have degrees and earn top pay

noddyholder · 14/06/2010 10:42

My mum was a single parent and worked full time and I feel we definitely missed out.We did however see her work ethic and it did pass on to us.I made a conscious decision to put work on the sidelines for a few years as did dp.We could have earned more and had new cars holidays etc but we got so much out of just being at home with ds and being involved with teh school etc.

Bonsoir · 14/06/2010 10:52

Hmm. I'm not sure that constant nanny supervision is what "benign neglect" refers to. "Benign neglect" is when a loving parent is in the background, letting DCs get on with whatever they want to get on with, while always being available for discussion/cuddles/a chat if necessary.

Cortina · 14/06/2010 10:59

Yes, wasn't sure that was the best way of describing it. I guess I meant 'benign' in that someone is taking care of the children, taking care of their needs. Parent is not actively being neglectful they've elected to perhaps contract out their parenting responsibilities completely.

If a parent is there in the background and there for the child if they need them or want them then not sure I'd see it as neglect at all? Less involved parenting perhaps?

I am with you that a parent having no real interest or showing any love etc is rather more serious than benign neglect on refection. I think essentially we agree though.

jellybeans · 14/06/2010 11:00

Most of the mums when I was a kid stayed home or worked when their kids were in juniors or at primary. The money was usually 'extra' as they were used to living on one income. There is alot to be said for it rather than depending on two wages and outsourcing childcare.

I worked fulltime with DD1 and she went to nursery. I never though about SAH until I realised I was missing out and DD hated nursery. I had my whole life to get my career. I was definately more focused on improving our material lives when i was working, get a nicer house, 2nd car etc whereas now i see time as more valuable.

I do think that it is up to the individual person/family and to be honest only know of one or two mums who work all hours and barely see their kids at the weekend. Yes they seem abit selfish but it is their life. Nearly every single mum I know is either a SAHM or works part time (about 50/50)

niminypiminy · 14/06/2010 11:16

I guess it's typical that this thread is all about mothers not fathers. Why do we women always tear into ourselves and others over this question?

There are times when I'm with the DCs that I long to be at work (particularly in the middle of the summer holidays). There are times when I'm at work I long to be with the DCs. I work part time and never seem to do anything properly.

Nothing is simple. It's never (or hardly ever) a straight choice between spending time with your kids or going to work, is it? And why do we feel so cut in two by this question when men don't? And why is our response to lay into each other about it?

ttalloo · 14/06/2010 11:20

Everyone makes their own decision based on their particular circumstances and as long as it works for them, why on earth are you, OP, being so ruddy judgmental?

So you are intrigued as to why people have children just to hand them over to someone else and would like the rest of us bad mothers (because it's clear that's what you think we are for working) to enlighten you? Do you have so little imagination that it's beyond you to understand that we might have them for the same reasons as you? We just choose, or have, to live our lives differently, whether for financial, personal or professional reasons - and that doesn't make us terrible or neglectful parents. It makes us good parents because we are trying to do our best for our families, in just the same way as you, I assume, are trying to do the best for yours.

But your question, while it might not make you a bitch, does make it clear that you are supremely smug about your own choices, and naive about other people's.

I grew up poor with a mother who stayed at home, and no, we weren't happy despite it all. We hated wearing last year's winter coat, or not going on school outings, or having a family holiday once every four years. And my mother missed out on having a career, which she still regrets to this day. So I won't apologise to you or anyone for choosing to work full-time so that we can have holidays, buy what we like and save what we can.

I don't criticise anyone for doing what they think is right for them and their family, whether it's being a SAHM or WOHM, or breastfeeding, weaning or sleeping choices, and all the other crap that brings out the judginess in people. Everyone does what they can, and we'd all be a lot better off if sanctimonious types like yourself learnt to be a bit more understanding and accept that Not Everyone Is Like You. Or Wants To Be.

BTW, you haven't name-changed from littleamy, have you, OP? I seem to remember a boringly similar thread in this vein, started by someone just as unenlightened as you, from a few weeks back....

noddyholder · 14/06/2010 11:21

My dp was equally determined to be a huge part of ds early years as I was.We had basic house car uk holidays if any etc.i actually surprised myself as I had always assumed I would work work work and I just didn't.You can do both with a bit of planning but the extreme long hours and endless childcare juggling just looks so stressful and pointless

mumofthreesweeties · 14/06/2010 11:23

ContentedVanilla - you are obviously a wind up and should really piss off (am being polite here). There are several circumstances which make both parents work. We both work in our household and tbh I enjoy my job a whole lot, I have no option to take a career break as my job will not be kept open for me. Anyhow we would not be able to afford our bills anyway so I am not going to be guilt tripped to stay at home by some idiot who is divorced from the realities of life. You are lucky that you can stay at home with your wealthy husband and nannies, some of us do not have that luxury and HAVE to work, so please dont go all judgemental on us because you do not have to work. I am not convinced that I would like to be a SAHM mum if I didnt have to work anyway

TheCoalitionNeedsYou · 14/06/2010 11:25

I've heard of some boarding schools refusing to take children from Hong Kong as the level of domestic help has left these children completly unable to care for themselves or cope with any desire not being immedeatly me