To think we should look after our own children?

[ContentedVanilla]

Why do people choose to have children if they don't want to actually do the job of looking after them? What are you getting out of it if someone else is looking after them?

If you and your partner both want a full time career then why have you chosen to have a child?

I'm not just being a bitch, I really am genuinely curious as to what people's reasons are and what makes them want children.

I read on another thread that a lady dreads the days she is not at work but at home with her child. Is it a case of not realising what it will really be like until you've done it?

her subjective opinion she is entitled to it. just as i am entitled to challenge it and its precious moments mama premise

i never call troll.

no, but who are trolls ?

all this troll hysteria is lame.whilst i dont care for her opinion CV hasn't caused any tangible harm.just wee bit of consternation

i do find it elucidating people actually think like this,never having encountered it

upon telling people of my pregnancies the next question was "how long are you having off" knowing i would return

only at baby group did i meet precious moments mamas.and they didnt associate with us going back to work mums

sm I am with you. We folk need to work. No harm done

Is it permitted to be forced to work for financial reasons and to enjoy your job?

And what about those parents who do discover that the 'job of looking after' children is not actually that much fun and they hate it? Should they send the DC back to the shop they got them from? Or manage the best they can?

IME looking after children is a mixture of worry, joy, tedium, exhilaration, frustration and pride. Paid work is much simpler. And it's paid And you get to drink coffee uninterrupted. And I've never been asked to wipe anyone's shit off the floor. DItto vomit. Neither have I had to shout or force colleagues to sit apart to stop the bickering. But then again my colleagues don't give big hugs and tell me they love me - well not often anyway.

I love my job and love my babies. All is fine in the Shark household

LOL have we worked together OrmRenewed?sounds familiar

had to shout or force colleagues to sit apart to stop the bickering yes

colleagues give big hugs and tell me they love me sometimes

Oh I think that managing children can be much easier than colleagues at times. My children can be horribly mean to each other at times, but it never lasts. I've had people in my team who sulked and bickered and generally created black clouds for everyone in the vicinity for years. Mind you I've not had teenagers yet!

Here's a pic of the OP, actually at home with her trollyoung children
A Troll? Me? Never!

I have not read the whole thing but I would love to be at home with my babies. OK they are 3 & 6 but they are my babies.

a) I couldn't afford not to work
b) Hubs is now in ill-health so definitely can't give up work.
c) Think of it this way, one day my children will be working to put in the pot and pay for your pension either private or state so Neeeer ner!

wonder how people survived 40 years ago on one wage. it was hard work for our parents but we all survived! i enjoy being a sahm and yes we don't have wonderful holidays aboard every year, the kids don't have all the latest computer games but we play outside on bikes, scouters, walks to beaches etc. they are happy and when they go to school full time i'll go back to work part time. also have had a sick child which means i would of lost my job by now if i did work to take him to various hospital/ doctor appointments. i am investing 7 years of my life into the future.

BEN5, to answer your post: 40 years ago.... hmmm, that was when I was little.

a) Mortgages were relatively far cheaper than these days. eg We lived in a fairly standard 3 bed home. My parents were able to borrow the mortgage money on the basis of one income, and make the repayments on one income. Yes, money was pretty tight, but it was all perfectlty possible.

b) A lot of other essential bills were either non-existent, or relatively cheaper. eg Council tax, utilities

c) Women of that generation often hadn't had access to the same opportunities as now. Girls achieved less well at school in many subjects, far fewer girls than boys had gone on to further or Higher Education. My mum, for example, was as clever as my dad, but she had been pushed to leave school at 16, whereas he had been to University. This meant that many women never had access to the higher status, more interesting careers in the first place.

d) The cultural norms were very different 40 years ago. As a young child, very few mums that I knew continued working. The expectation for many women was that work was something that you did for a few years between leaving school and getting married and having children. Average age of marriage and first child were quite a lot younger than nowadays. Some women returned to (generally) low status 'pin money' jobs when their children were older, but many continued to stay home. This fact was reflected in the almost total lack of childcare facilities then. I didn't have any friends who went to a childminder, and after school and holiday clubs were pretty much unheard of.

BTW, playing outside on bikes, going for walks, are things that many parents enjoy, whether they stay home or not. Also, as parents, we all invest in the future with our children.

YABU,
In post-industrial society communities and extended family have broken down. there is no village left to raise the child, which means that parents, usually women, are left to do it alone if they don't work. Raising children is not a one-person job and it is unreasonable to expect one person to do it. SAHMs face social isolation, ostracism, zero conversation, difficulty in returning to a satisfying job and are left exploited by large companies that take advantage of the fact they have child-rearing responsibilities etc etc
Added to that, women need financial independence and a higher purpose in life than their children and these things can be found through their work.

Do I think this situation is ideal for children? NO.
Do I think this is women's fault? No.
DO I think children are the parent's responsibility alone because they had them? No, I think children are society's responsibility.

ben5, also remember that 100 years ago many working class families did not survive without both parents working full time. The situation of 40 years ago (one of the most affluent and atypical eras of all time) can not be extrapolated to draw conclusions about other times.

Yes the idea of one person not working (i.e the mother) is a twentieth century invention. Even in the twentieth century the only reason 'housewives' were classified as not working was because strident capitalism didn't see it fit to pay for their work...not because they actually weren't working

ben5, inflation now means you need 2 wages to run a home, not one. This is because trade unions decided not to include women and men priced themselves out of the market: why pay a man a full wage wen you can pay a woman half of that for the same job...

out of interest OP who do you think should do the jobs that FT working mothers currently do, I know a number of doctors, teachers, nurses to name a few....not exactly professions we can do without....

not saying those are the only worth professions to clarify just making the point that if all the FT working mums stopped working there would be a big whole in many areas....

whoops whole , clearly meant hole (i used to be good a spelling and grammar you wouldn't have thought it would you...)

clemettethecoalitionbreak... good post

I love working and I love my child, you can have both. We could MANAGE on just my DH's salary but I don't want to struggle on, I want to contribute financially to the family to make it better on the whole.

OP, you ask why we chose to have children, I just can't get my head around why the two are mutually exclusive. My grandmother had 14 kids, a farm and a husband to look after (yes typically he did nothing to help at home), believe me she didn't spend half the time with any one of her children than I do with mine.

But I stress again I just dont understand why working full time = don't want to spend time with my child, especially when a lot of people have only 1 or 2.

The only time I ever wonder along these lines is when I have contact, through an old job, with some very privileged mothers.

The small group I knew professionally (SAHM) that fit this description spent virtually no time at all with their children. Nannies took the children to play areas after school and spent time with them at the weekends. I once asked a mother which child of theirs had done a particularly beautiful painting and she said 'I couldn't tell you, I don't get involved'. Some of these ladies had a huge amount of help in the house and it was interesting to see them start out with good intentions to spend quality time with the children which then gradually subsided when other adult social temptations arose.

Many would almost never see or spend any time at all with their children. When I asked one why not I realised she had lost all confidence in her ability to cope as a mother. I felt sorry for her.

I am going to go against the flow here. I worh FT but I know that when I am not working I make huge efforts to spend time with DC, so no guilt for me!

but some of the following does make me wonder

rich people that have nannies 5 days a week
people that always dump the kids on their parents
even some mates of mine that pack the kids off to bed as early as possible so that they can have time to themselves, who not spend an extra hour with them??
parents that both work FT and then always park the kids on babysitters

hey each to their own, but its not unreasonable to ask "why have kids if you never ever want to spend time with them", No?

Haven't read whole thread but do think children benefit from a parent at home in teh pre school years but the way this country is financially it is just not affordable for a lot of people.

Porcamiseria,I think you've hit the nail on the head about what (I think!) the OP meant.
I agree with all your points made.

I don't think it is the usual working mum Vs SAHM argument here.