scots supporting england!

[glasgowmandy]

my whole family are die hard scots, and every single one of them is bashing england to loose the cup, i dont understand it, i hope they do their best and will support them all the way! arnt we all british supporters??

if i talk about it to any of them they are horrified, just this afternoon, my brother was saying he thinks im upsetting dad with supporting them.. oh my god its football, get a grip!!

well come on england!!

backtotalkaboutthis -

not that you don't sound bitter or biggoted yourself, of course.

I don't play up to it as I think it is quite silly and |I enjoy living in Enland with children born here with english accents - ye gads! I was explaining more from the general Scottish perspective. I would encourage my kids to support England if they want to and am happy for them to call themselves english if that is how they see themselves. My husband feels differently though.

When I'm in Scotland i would defend England if anyone had an unreasonable go at it. Similarliy, in England, sometimes I've had to defend Scotland. Guess, I swing both ways.

yes was waiting for that -- to recognise and dislike the bigotry of another group is, apparently bigoted

yeah sure

scanty, you have defended it here but otherwise your approach sounds quite normal

Of course it happens! Do you really think that Scottish people in England don't face it? That the media doesn't play up to the Scottish stereotype?

TV soaps, etc are full of it - We need a drunk - make him Scottish, Little Mo's husband is a wife beater - make him Scottish (even though his name is Trevor), the country has gone to the dogs - its all that SCOTTISH Unelected PM"s fault (fair enough a lot of it was his fault ) but you get my drift!

yes, I do -- on a day to day basis, I do think it's not as bad as the Scottish response to the English either from afar or at a distance

not nearly as bad

what you're describing is the American response to the English -- need a baddie? give him an English accent

it is not the same as casual, defended, everyday, apparently amusing, wind up bigotry

"there's a lot of casual racism in some parts of the UK. If it's against the English, it's considered acceptable"

True, but it also happens the other way round. Just as many Welsh people are called names by English people in Wales. Growing up it was common to be called a "Sioni" and generally considered to be stupid if you were Welsh and especially if you spoke Welsh.

So it is hardly suprising that a lot of people in Wales/Scotland/NI don't want to support England.

EddieIzzard - the difference is that the racism directed at Scots in England is usually dressed up as a 'joke', e.g. 'oi Jock, stop being so tight'. I'm not excusing it on either part but, from personal experience, it does happen.

By mozette Thu 10-Jun-10 14:09:10
Of course it happens! Do you really think that Scottish people in England don't face it?

I can confirm it does happen. It happened to me during my 3 years in the south of england, but since moving to Yorkshire, haven't yet encountered any.

Ha, ha at Trevor. Never met a Scot in my life called Trevor! But you're right about the drunks on TV. Saying that, Rab C doesn't actually help our case!

hmm interesting. we are about to move to Scotland from England and are wondering what it will be like for us.. we are moving to Edinburgh though and from our visits there is does seem like there are a lot of English accents around.. so maybe we won't be so villified there! of course we would hope our kids will grow up appreciating their (kind-of!) english heritage but i do anticipate that at the next world cup, if scotland do make it there then they will fully be supporting Scotland and will probably grow up to think of themselves as Scottish.
They are little enough that they probably won't even remember their life in England when they grow up.
I will still be supporting England though and sure will be a great embarrassment to the dc as a result

I have not ever heard one person in real life make a joke about a tight wallet to any of the Scottish people I know.

Seventies comedians? sure

and who was that guy that used to put on a red wig and tartan beret

but we grew out of it, pretty much

I'm not sure why so many English people are so surprised by Scottish (and Welsh and Irish) antipathy towards the English football team. It's simple footballing rivalry, experienced the world over.

Do English fans support the likes of Germany or Argentina in the World Cup? No, they generally like to see them lose, and they take particular delight in beating those two countries. That's precisely the kind of feeling many Scottish/Welsh/Irish football fans have towards the English football team and the media hype that surrounds them.

how very odd, I know a Scottish person called Trevor (who is an ABE but apart from that extremely nice)

As I said on many occasion - haven't you thought it MIGHT just be you lot at fault. If EVERYONE wants your team to lose(Scots, Welsh, French etc), maybe, just maybe, you need to look inward?

I'm Scottish, but I hate football. I don't want England to win but not because I'm one of the stupid ABE crowd and it's not that I dislike the English or England. The simple reason is the fact that if England were to win the World Cup again, the media wouldn't shut up about it for yet another 40 years!!!

Honestly, it takes MOST commentators or media types about 1 MINUTE to mention 1966. The only reason I know the year that England last won the cup is because THE STUPID MEDIA PEOPLE NEVER SHUTUP ABOUT IT.

And during EVERY game, not just the English games, all the facts and statistics relate to when they last played England, what the score was blah blah blah...

It's not just football that's like this, during the Olympics an interviewer spoke to a Scottish athlete and asked how he felt to win the gold or silver for ENGLAND??? WTF? For starters, the athlete was bloody Scottish, secondly we compete as Great Britain! Idiots.

Tennis is another example. Yes Andy Murray is supported south of the border, but during last years Wimbledon I was sick to the back teeth of hearing that most people interviewed still viewed Henman as the best British player and that "Henman Hill" shouldn't be renamed "Murray Mound" or something equally stupid. No British pride there then?

Some golf tournament this year is another example. There is a Scottish player and an English player (I promise this isn't a joke) and even up here all we're getting are adverts to support our sportsmen and women. Fantastic, but who are they telling us to support? Not a mention of the Scottish player (who was higher in the standings at the time than the English player I think), but the crowd were all waving their English flags and again, the commentators were talking about the English player with I think, one sentence thrown in at the end about the Scottish guy.

/rant

yy i can sympathise with that rant Charlie, you need SBC

but seriously the BBC really needs to deal with this, it came up on another thread

do you think it would stop if the BBC got the telly and sports commentary right?

It does work both ways. I've experienced anti Scottish remarks while in England,in the South. There wasn't a lot of it but there was some and any is too much imho.

My English dp has experienced some anti English sentiment here but again not very much thankfully.

I was particuarly 'amused' by an English classmate who was on the science course I was undertaking,in Scotland. and who made quite an impression on us all by introducing herself on her first day by telling a very anti Scottish joke. You can imagine how that went down.

And the joke did involve a tight wallet and another few stereotypes.

.. maybe she'd heard of the famous Scottish love for a bigoted wind-up and thought she'd join in ..

Lets face it much of Gordon Brown's problem was that he wasn't good looking, charming enough or english enough. This is much like any minority kicking against the bigger majority. The bigger majority tend to feel secure and don't always realise how the minority feels. Same as probably being black in majority white country. Or being Muslim in a majority Christian country. God even in Scotland I was from a minority group, severly discriminated against in the past. Maybe my view point is slanted by that, maybe someone from the Highlands or Islands would feel different.

There wasn't one anti English comment in all her time at college.There was no need for it

No matter where you are it's hardly the way to make a good impression.

And I don't agree with anti English jokes either but we certainly don't all make them. I'm certainly not anti English.

I hope they lose early so a) we don't have to hear about football so much. It's boring b) people don't have to put up with even more out-of-the-control drunkenness and obnoxious and violent drunken behaviour. As if warm summer weather isn't enough to bring out even more of these ghetto people who drink too much and then act out.

All these alcohol ads 'for the World Cup' just go to show you why there needs to be more of a crackdown on heavy drinking in this country - ban all special offers on drink, all advertising of alcohol on TV, minimum pricing, etc.

I'm Irish, married to an English man and I really do try to support England for his sake, but when the opposite team scores, I have a little leap of joy. I can't explain it, not particularly proud of it, but there you go.

Now when England won the rugby world cup I cheered like an Englishwoman. I was genuinely thrilled for that team and the fans. Maybe it's because I knew I wouldn't have to hear about it for 40+ years?

I think the type of prejudice experienced by Scots in England is of a different variety than the Scots who dislike England. In Scotland, the anti English feeling is strongest in people who have a perceived sense of injustice, much like the anti immigrant feeling in England - just blaming slightly different people.

Scottish people I know, including myself, who have been treated badly in England, have been by those who tend to look down on people for whatever reason. I was told by a very posh Englishman that he couldn't possible take me seriously because my accent makes me sound drunk all the time - I have a very similar accent to Kelly MacDonald, nothing like Rab C Nesbit. Another friend of mine has her boss shout "Och Aye the Noo" when she is trying to talk to clients. I don't think it is too different than the way he would treat someone from Newcastle though - but when you are the victim you think why me and assume it is your nationality.

In both cases I think it is more an issue in certain groups of people and in no way representative of the population. Both groups have equal proportions of hateful people, just different targets.

I usually start out supporting England and probably would manage to last if they had different commentators and less repulsive fans being interviewed. I can't help but cringe every time a piece of English luck is put down to skill and a beautiful piece of French skill is called luck - I'd feel the way about any such coverage though but our TV only covers the English.

Charlieknows makes a very valid point. Every time England play a televised game in the WC finals we have a sweep in my club for how long it will be before the first mention of 1966. If you haven't got a ticket for the first five minutes, forget it!

The Andy Murray point reminds me of something that hasn't changed in 30 odd years. When I was young there was a Northern Irish Formula One driver called John Watson, and even then as a child I could notice that when he occasionally won he was "British" but when he crashed out early in a race he was "Northern Ireland's John Watson". Andy Murray is also only British when he's winning. A first round exit and he's as Scottish as Irn Bru or hating England!

Look, its simple football is ALL about loyalty to your team, through good years and bad (plenty of bad in Scotland's case!)

You wouldn't expect Manchester United fans to support Manchester City in the cup Final if Man U had been knocked out would you?

Therefore it is not unreasonable for Scottish fans not to support England, it would feel disloyal to do so.

Also if we don't support England we have a whole array of teams to support and less chance of disappointment.