to think that being an escort is a valid career choice?

[whatkatydidathome]

I have a friend who is 19, unqualified and attractive. She was a lap dancer but is now considering escort work. She has tried it a few times and appears able to earn £200 an hour working for what appears to be a reputable (well as reputable as you can get I suppose!) agency in London. I have been thinking about how I feel about this (and discussing it with dh) and can see why she is doing it and I sort of think that I do think that it is a valid career choice (as long as she sticks with the agency who provide back up etc).

She goes to london for 2 or 3 days a week to work. The better agencies seem to be there.
The website for the agency is very specific. Girls who offer a-sex are in a separate section. It is very clear cut what is offered and what is not. Also she says that it is standard practice for the client to shower first (and I guess do his teeth if necessary ).
Part of my point is that the conditions do not have to be that horrible. Not all prostitutes are in a position where they have to "take anyone". The agency expects a certain standard and she can always refuse to go ahead and point out that she has only been paid to talk . Okay she would not get far if she did this often and without reason but if someone is not prepared to wash adequately and/or requests something other than the list of services offered by a particular girl then it is okay to turn them down. If such agencies were legalised then maybe fewer women would be forced to work in bad conditions or on the streets.

Isn't there any way you could actually help this girl? You make her sound like a total lost cause and her only option is 'escort/prostitution', is that what you really thing OP? Do you not believe she has any other choices just because she is unqualified and has some ancient caution for shoplifting as a kid?

"She was also caught shop lifting at 15 so has a record which means that she cannot do care work and so would probably struggle (understandibly I guess) to get shop work."

So she did something wrong when she was 15 and, four years later, it impacts on her chances of employment. Does it occur to her that this choice at 19 might also impact on her future life? Has she learnt nothing? When you are in a hole, stop digging.

Surely there are all sorts of charities who can help?

Agree. There are thousands of jobs in London - she could easily get one. There is much more choice than having sex for money.

And I find it very strange that the mother thinks its ok - I have never met any woman who would be happy with their child doing this.

Do you think of your daughter as suitable for vagina rental?

I don't believe this now after you've said that about the mother.

Hmm. Just read OP's latest posting. Sounds like a troll to me.
Or are you on a recruitment drive?

Well I have already expressly forbidden my 8 year old from joining the forces, I also wouldn't be happy with him being a prostitute either (for different reasons obviously).

Anyway I think this ex/death duality is ridiculous anyway, there are other jobs or training, after all most pretty 19 year olds don't become sex workers.

ANd if you can't see any difference etween being wined and dined, or being a prostitute, I feel sorry for you.

I would't use the word "career" in your op.

If you have no aspirations in life and have little dignity then yes, otherwise, there are always other wonderful things she could do.

The sad thing is that people like you think this is a "career" and so many other girls out there start thinking this same way, it is much more positive to get young girls like your friend motivated to do something with their lives.

Ok, this is getting ridiculous. I understand what you're saying about not judging her, but you're not only defending the girl but encouraging the idea that this is the only possible option open to her.

FWIW my flatmate in Uni worked as an escort for about a year to help fund her studies. You are right that agencies look after the girls' safety, but they cannot guarantee safety. In theory you can refuse to do anything you're not comfortable with, but in practice it's near impossible to do. My friend was kicked out of the books for refusing to indulge in some mild fetish twice. The clients she got were nice looking well-dressed men with manners, but once the clothes are off, it's a whole different world! She did get to go to some fantastic places and attend some cool parties (a regular was some Embassy guy) but she had to spend a small fortune in clothes and make-up to fit in. You might say it's not different to being wined and dined, and maybe there isn't, but you do know why you're there and what is expected...in other words, there is little pretence you're a human being. This is all second-hand information of course, but I have no reason to doubt it.

Your friend could be justified in doing this if she uses the money to improve her circumstances. But in no sane world is this a valid choice of job for a young girl!

No I am not on a recruitment drive or a troll
As I said her mother is not a "born parent" to put it mildly. The child was an accident, father left, mother did the best she could but is far from being a perfect parent. We have argued lots about it. Also the mother is not over joyed about it - just "okay with it" ie she sees it as somethgin that some women do - possibly she has been influenced by that Call girl program on the TV and uses this to make herself feel better about that fact that her daughter is doing this.
I tried to help when she was first thrown out of home by my friend's new husband. I rang every charity in the phone book (they live in a different part of the country to me as I moved years ago) and spent hours talking to the connextions lady and the council. The problem was that the girl was not homeless - she was living with a 35 year old squaddie. This meant that no one would help as she was not requesting help and she was not homeless. Since then she has lived with various men - all in their 30s and most in the forces. She is currently between men which may be why she is doing this. Not sure why my latest posting got such a reaction. I'm not trying to say that prostitution does nto involve having sex for money and that many people would not want to do this. I am just saying that the conditions in which prostitutes work vary widely and that some people do not seem to mind having sex for money so shouldn't we accept this and try to make it safer for them?

everyone wants it be safer - no one is saying different

what people are taking issue with is that this is being presented as a rational choice for a teenager - you are suggesting there is no other option.

I don't think that it is the only option open to her. I just can see why she has decided that the scales come down on this particular one for now.

"she was living with a 35 year old squaddie ... Since then she has lived with various men - all in their 30s and most in the forces"

All this and she is only 19? I am tempted to say that she is already a prostitute so she may as well get paid for it. But, seriously, she has real self-esteem issues (perhaps that's why she can't get a job?)

Actually having spent quite a bit of time talking to her I'm not convinced that she does have major self esteeme issues. She was happy with the squaddies, got wined and dined a lot whilst they were around and tended to drift to another one when they were away. She described it as "having some fun". She does seem to lack any kind of moral problem with selling sex and she does seem to lack any kind of ethical problem with effectively using men (most of the sqaddies appeared very attached to her and were upset when they came back from various locations to discover that their girlfrend was now with someone else). However whilst I do have an issue with the ethics of dropping men like a hat the minute they get posted somewhere I can't fully decide about the selling sex bit. No I wouldn't do it but I'm not convinced that I think that it is morally wrong.

She has major issues and was thrown out by her own mother at 16 and abandoned by her father.

If you can't see that and think that the best option is her going into prostitution then you are not the best person to help her.

Not one person has said it is morally wrong.

If no one thinks that it is morally wrong then why are so many so against the idea I'd assumed that it was a moral thing but may have got the wrong end of the stick.
I'm not saying that she has not had a really bad time of it - just that I have spoken to her at length about things, on many occasions, and she really does appear fully aware of what she is doing and happy with her choices in life. She was thrown out by her mother's husband (he owned the house) not her mother and never knew her father. This is obviously still a hard thing to come to terms with but she was thrown out partly because she was staying out all night with the squaddie and she seemed quite happy to move in with him rather than have screaming "what time do you call this" type rows with new husband. Ditto school - she did not want to go, her parents did try to make her so more rows.
I agree that she is not fully considering the possible future consequences but then what 19 year old does
I'm not saying that it is the best option for her. If i thought "great" when she told me and when I looked at the agency website then I'd not be here discussing it. I posted here because I am not sure that it is the "best" option but also I can see why she thinks that it is (and yes it is the money).

I have a slightly schizophrenic view I suppose, in that it's not the money changing hands that offends me it's just the idea of some complete stranger shagging a young girl, hurting her by using for anal sex, and worse. It just makes me shudder to think about it.

The agency she uses makes it crystal clear that many of the escorts do not do anal sex. They also make it crystal clear which ones will and which will not. It is very up front about this and also about presisely what else each girl will and will not do.

Oh as long as it's not anal sex! Phew! For a minute there I thought she was selling her body for sex. [rolleyes]

I got caught shoplifting as a teen - result = caution.

I worked as a "telephone maid" in a brothel - it's not Belle Du Jour - it's a dirty, nasty business filled with girls who'll back stab you in the blink of an eye and who'll not use a condom for an extra fiver. Yes, for real!

Yes, there are high class "escorts" (whores) - they are generally more beautiful than the rest of us, bi/trilingual, educated, witty, et al. They are not 19 year olds with a poor education and low self-esteem.

It depends on what you mean by "high class escort". I'm talking about agencies who charge £200 per hour (they take a cut so she gets about £150) and who appear to try to make the work safer. A look at the internet shows that there are plenty out there, they appear well used and do not push the educated or witty angle. (I have to admit that I originally thought that they did as they appeared to be advertising the fact that some of the girls had A-levels but I've been reliably imformed that this is not the case )

Chuh!

Well, I'll say it, because I don't really believe any of this, but Yes I object on "moral" grounds.

This young woman, not yet into her 20's, is not really making a "choice" is she? Your posts are contradictory in the extreme.

(I'm paraphrasing here for the sake of my mental health)

First you say "Well, she's going to do it because she can't afford the rent in any other way, she can't get a job because she got done for shoplifting at age 15" (which BTW would have no bearing on her getting a junior job in an office for example)"

Then you say: "She is happy with her choices and I'm just winding you all up she'll earn shedloads!"

This young woman is being failed in every way as far as I can see. Failed by her father, failed by her step-father, failed by her mother, and failed by THE SYSTEM; and now failed by you. And that is what I find morally repugnant.

Rather than spending your internet minutes checking out the agency, why not LOOK at direct.gov.org and really find out what she'd be entitled to? What about looking at Gumtree for example to show her houseshare options, where the rent is much lower than standard rentals. How about finding other options rather than this? How about listening to what we're saying? Because you've had a pretty much unanimous response from MN here (surprise, surprise, parents on a parenting site disagree with a damaged 19 year old going into prostitution) and why you keep banging on about choices and career fucking options is just, well, it's pretty lame.

Side note:
I've clicked hide on this thread 3 times today - WHY CAN I STILL LOOK AT IT?

Yes she has been failed by the system in that her school was pretty dire and the help offered to 16-17 year olds is abysmal. I have looked at the various websites (and as I explained I have spent much time on the phone to many of them). I have also looked at places like Gumtree etc but even a room in a shared house is £60-£70 a week.
The fact is that she has tried getting a job (she was given one by connextions at one point) and has tried living on the £35 a week college money but found that she could earn a lot more by lap dancing so she did that instead. She then found that she could earn even more in London as an escort. I have tried to talk her out of this but she appears happy to do it and would rather do this and live pretty well than struggle somewhere below the breadline in the hope that she will one day rise slightly above it. After failing to talk her out o fit I did the next best thing which was to check out the agency and they did appear one of the better ones.

I

shoplifting at 15: unless she was a repeat offender which actually made it onto her record, this would have absolutely no bearing on her getting a job at 19. most places wouldnt even check her record unless theyd been given reason to! and if it was just a caution, no company would bother with one caution 4 years previously.

Whatevs.

Don't even know what you're trying to achieve with all this.

It's NOT OK.

Yes, the sex industry needs to be cleaned up, of course. I don't think anyone is disagreeing with that.

But there is no way in HELL would I want this to be ever considered a career "choice". 99% of women in the sex industry (Oh, and I'm making that statistic up, but I'm probably not far off - oh and I'm talking about pornstars and prostitutes, not those on the "ADMIN" side. FFS.) are probably damaged women.

If your daughter came to you at 19 and said that this was a choice she had made, would you be happy that she would be having all sorts of damaging experiences, which would limit her future life-choices and which would involve social misfits sticking their cock into every available orifice?

If not, WHY NOT?

She was a repeat offender and so it did get onto her record. She tried to get a CRB check and failed. It is possible that she has other convictions and that i do not know about them. I just know that she did get arrested for shop lifting at 15 and cannot get a CRB check now. She tried to get work in a care home (one that her mother works in ) and couldn't. However I don't think that this is the real issue. I think that she wants more money than she can earn.

Can you answer my question please?