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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to not let DH's father hold our baby when it is born?

144 replies

asdf1234 · 04/05/2010 11:42

This will be a fairly long question I am afraid. I am asking this here as I am pretty sure I am anonymous...!

Its a serious quandry that I am in, so all advice appreciated.

DH's parents divorced when DH was 10. It has since emerged that his father was sexually inappropriate with both my DH and his sibling when they were young. There was nothing really serious, but both DH and his sister recall feeling that something was definately "not right" sexually at very young ages when they would not, in a normal family, have been aware of anything sexual at all. For instance, DH recalls being terrified, aged about 6, that his father would get into his bed and take his pants off. Also being terrified that his father would get into the bath with him. None of these things would have occurred to me re my father at that age! Also, both DH and his sibling have memories of inappropriate touching - upper thigh and crotch and of being aware at far too young an age (again, at 5, 6 and 7) that the touching was somehow odd.

Later, when DH was a teenager, he realised that his father (who of course he no longer lived with) was "odd" sexually. For instance, when they were in the car together when DH was about 16, his father would point out out very young girls (10,11 or 12 year olds) to DH with a "phwaorr, look at that".

when DH was 16, he was at his grandmother's house with his father, who had since had another child with a girlfriend. In front of DH and his grandmother, DH's father had the new child (about 5 at the time) on his lap and began stroking and inappropriately touching very highup her thigh. DH felt completely awful/confused/didn't know what hhe should do but his grandmother ignored it. DH didn't feel he could say anything at the time (and 15 years later still feels awful about that).

DH's relationship with his father is actually very healthy, in that he realises he is sexually very abonormal but has forgiven him for past actions. He is aware he needs to protect himself emotionally and he doesn't really like his father, but he still loves him - he is his dad. He has a civil but distant relationship with him. He sees him out of kindness and is not bitter towards him. I see DH's father with DH about twice a year, for an hour or two.

I am now expecting our first child, DH's father's first grandchild. DH's father is really excited and, although it is always odd and awkward, has phoned a couple of times to see how we are and has been round to see us.

Both DH and I are in a total quandry about what to do when our baby is born. Do we allow any physical contact between the child and DH's father?

I am veering towards no physical contact (no holding etc) at all. Both DH and I 100% agree that the child would never be left alone with DH's father - he could of course visit us and "see" the baby, but we would never leave the room etc.

I see it as my primary job to protect the baby. Even if DH's father never "did" anything or touched inappropriately, I do not want my child to have any "sense" of something being not right sexually at an age where a child should not be aware of sexuality at all.

The problem is that, to stop DH's father from holding the child, we would have to explain why. DH acknowledges that his father would probably accept our decision (and realise why) but DH also feels that it would totally break his heart. His father is quite an old man now and lots of things have gone wrong in his life. My DH's happiness and the fact that we're having a baby is pretty much the only thing that is now good in his life.

Is it unreasonable to prevent DH's father from holding the baby?

Both DH and I are genuinely torn.

I know this thread sometmes becomes a bit of a slanging match, and that is fair enough, but I really would appreciate some proper, sound advice please.

OP posts:
starshaker · 04/05/2010 11:46

Sorry but i wouldnt let him near the baby at all but thats just me

AKMD · 04/05/2010 11:47

I would not allow him to hold the baby. It is a really tough call but for me, it boils down to your child's safety being more important than being nice to your FIL.

clam · 04/05/2010 11:49

Hmm, tricky one.
But I suppose if you put in place all those restrictions re: not leaving the room etc.. then there's little FIL can actually do. But reserve your rights to step in and do something if you see anything that makes you uneasy.

yomellamoHelly · 04/05/2010 11:51

Personally I don't know how you can continue seeing him but not let him hold your dc.

FWIW we always met in public places for brief amounts of time.

We haven't seen him for 18 months now though (eldest 6 1/2) - ever since we discovered I was expecting a little girl (she's now 1).

Never planned it this way tbh, but it doesn't sit comfortably with me.

whywhywhydelilah · 04/05/2010 11:52

Put the needs of your innocent child first. Don't let him hold the baby ever.

Nancy66 · 04/05/2010 11:53

Well you're definitely not being unreasonable given your FIL's past.

I think you're absolutely right to make sure your child is never alone with him. I would say that if you are always present then there's no harm in him holding the baby as you will be able to watch his actions.

Some of the stuff you've mentioned I guess (if you wanted to give the benefit of the doubt) you could look for excuses for.

the oggling young girls - perhaps he assumed they were older?

the stroking his young daughter's thigh - just affectionate touching.

But the stuff about removing his underwear and getting into bed with the kids is impossible to justify - so it seems he has issues.

the thing is as your child gets older the issue will arise - so perhaps it is as well to get it out in the open now. I think it needs to come from your DH - just setting the boundaries and explaining why they are in place.

yomellamoHelly · 04/05/2010 11:53

(Was my father so decision largely led by me with full dh's support.)

lou031205 · 04/05/2010 11:54

What harm can come to your baby if you are in the room? Just be sensible.

warthog · 04/05/2010 11:55

the choice is clear:

either

let dh's dad hold the baby and risk that horrible not-right-sexual feeling for your child

or

let dh's dad carry on doing what is wrong and feeling all happy and accepted by you all.

tough choice? i think not. i think dh's dad has to realise that actually what he does is NOT ok.

QSnondomicilabilis · 04/05/2010 11:56

I understand why you are torn.

Are you in contact with dhs step sister? (Who I gather is 10 years younger than your dh?)

What I wonder is, what great emphasis one should put on the stroking of the 5 year old girls thigh. Was it really inappropriate, or was it your dh thinking it was, based on his own past experiences?

I stroke my children pretty much everywhere (aside from genitals), and if ds1 or ds2 are on my lap, I might as well stroke their hips or thighs, or anywhere convenient, while talking, ruffling hair, and generally just having a cuddle. There is nothing inappropriate about it. They are my kids, I stroke and cuddle them, ruffle their hair, kiss the nape of their necks, there is nothing sexual about it at all. Just in my view, a happy parent child relationship with plenty of kisses and cuddles. If ds2 comes into our bed at night, I let him in under the duvet and hug him close. And if ds1 wakes up and ask me (or dh) to join him, because he had a bad dream, feels unwell, etc, we do.

The answer is, I dont know what you should do.

But I think I would not make an outright ban, but monitor the situation closely. Never leave him alone with the baby, and just make sure there is always both of you present.

It COULD become a healhty grandparent/grandchild relationship, and you dont want to deprive your child of that.
Do you think that could work?

Auntyviral · 04/05/2010 11:57

lou

l39 · 04/05/2010 12:02

I don't think your FIL should be allowed to hold the baby.

If it was me, he'd never be under the same roof as my child, but IAAOPM.

(I Am An Over Protective Mother.

But then my dh is an even more overprotective father. He'd never permit our children in the same room as a known child abuser, let alone calling one grandad.)

legallyblond · 04/05/2010 12:04

I do see (and DH would acknowledge) taht much of his father's behaviour could in a normal family situation be seen as loving and non-sexual. Both my parents were very ciddly with me as a child and they are in no way odd!

BUT, I think that the fact that DH and his sibling had such an overwhelming feeling of something being sexually wrong and sexually scary at an age when no normal child would know what that sort of feeling was is indiciative of something being wrong. DH could have been projecting onto his younger stepsister, but she herself calls DH's father "pervy dad" and won't hug him etc. Not really normal.

Its really just a question of where will we draw the line. At the "no holding the child level", which I feel is over cautious but 100% safe, or at the "not being left alone with the child" level, which is infinitely less hurtful for DH's father(and, honestly, easier for DH - his father will make him feel unbearably guilty - he is very manipulative in that way).

I am still torn even with the above responses!

As it is, DH usually only sees his father with others present or in a public place just because that is emotionally easier.

Morloth · 04/05/2010 12:04

Creepy FIL wouldn't be allowed within a mile of my kids (or me for that matter). His feelings on the matter would be irrelevant to me, my DH would feel the same way.

You reap what you sow.

legallyblond · 04/05/2010 12:05
  • cuddley, obviously!
SecretPollingBooth · 04/05/2010 12:05

Sorry but I'd deprive my child of a gp/child relationship with this man

SecretPollingBooth · 04/05/2010 12:07

he might be an old man
but he's a manipulative paedophile
I'd not have anything to do with him

legallyblond · 04/05/2010 12:07

As DH's father is not my dad, I obviously want the 100% safe option. But this is harder for DH as his father is his father and, despite not liking him, he loves him. It is not easy!

Morloth · 04/05/2010 12:08

Not easy, but quite simple.

Kids often love their abusers, it makes a powerful weapon for keeping them in line.

withorwithoutyou · 04/05/2010 12:10

Gosh, this is really tricky.

The thing with letting him hold the baby is that you set a precedent then that physical contact is ok. So can you suddenly draw the line later and say it's not ok to hold the baby when he/she is 3?

I can totally understand not wanting to upset him as he's an old man, but I think your maternal instincts to protect the baby are right too.

Is DH in any position to talk this through with his sister? Just thought it might be helpful for her to clarify how she felt about it all.

Personally, I think I would err on the side of no physical contact with an explanation as to why.

Kathyjelly · 04/05/2010 12:10

I think I'd say yes, on that first visit, with baby in full babygro and wrapped in a shawl. Have a family picture taken but then that's it.

You aren't excluding anyone, you will be present, the baby will be safe and your DH's father will have something harmless to cherish and to show his friends.

I think you're really nice for putting so much careful consideration into it.

lou031205 · 04/05/2010 12:11

I honestly think that there is no harm in him holding your baby while you are in the room.

winnybella · 04/05/2010 12:11

What Morloth and SecretPolling said. Frankly I'm shocked you would even consider letting your child have any contact with this man.

Elffriend · 04/05/2010 12:12

No I would not let him. You write that if your DH told his dad why then his dad would probably understand so it is not as though making this decision would change current relationships in any way or open painful subjects.

It may well break his heart - and that is terribly sad but that is because of him having to face up to how he has damaged others/behaved; you are not causing the hurt -he did that a long time ago.

Making a claer stand now means you will not have to mkae that decsion later. (If he holds your child now -at what point in the future would you then stop him? when your child is 2, 5, 10?) Close the door now and get the hurt over with cleanly otherwise any later separation will be hard for both him AND your child.

traceybath · 04/05/2010 12:12

Afraid I would pretty much avoid all contact.

Its easy to say - baby will only be with him wwhen others around but thats hard to police. What happens if he's holding 2 year old child and wanders off into a room with her - are you then going to go and forcibly romove child from his arms?