to not let DH's father hold our baby when it is born?

[asdf1234]

This will be a fairly long question I am afraid. I am asking this here as I am pretty sure I am anonymous...!

Its a serious quandry that I am in, so all advice appreciated.

DH's parents divorced when DH was 10. It has since emerged that his father was sexually inappropriate with both my DH and his sibling when they were young. There was nothing really serious, but both DH and his sister recall feeling that something was definately "not right" sexually at very young ages when they would not, in a normal family, have been aware of anything sexual at all. For instance, DH recalls being terrified, aged about 6, that his father would get into his bed and take his pants off. Also being terrified that his father would get into the bath with him. None of these things would have occurred to me re my father at that age! Also, both DH and his sibling have memories of inappropriate touching - upper thigh and crotch and of being aware at far too young an age (again, at 5, 6 and 7) that the touching was somehow odd.

Later, when DH was a teenager, he realised that his father (who of course he no longer lived with) was "odd" sexually. For instance, when they were in the car together when DH was about 16, his father would point out out very young girls (10,11 or 12 year olds) to DH with a "phwaorr, look at that".

when DH was 16, he was at his grandmother's house with his father, who had since had another child with a girlfriend. In front of DH and his grandmother, DH's father had the new child (about 5 at the time) on his lap and began stroking and inappropriately touching very highup her thigh. DH felt completely awful/confused/didn't know what hhe should do but his grandmother ignored it. DH didn't feel he could say anything at the time (and 15 years later still feels awful about that).

DH's relationship with his father is actually very healthy, in that he realises he is sexually very abonormal but has forgiven him for past actions. He is aware he needs to protect himself emotionally and he doesn't really like his father, but he still loves him - he is his dad. He has a civil but distant relationship with him. He sees him out of kindness and is not bitter towards him. I see DH's father with DH about twice a year, for an hour or two.

I am now expecting our first child, DH's father's first grandchild. DH's father is really excited and, although it is always odd and awkward, has phoned a couple of times to see how we are and has been round to see us.

Both DH and I are in a total quandry about what to do when our baby is born. Do we allow any physical contact between the child and DH's father?

I am veering towards no physical contact (no holding etc) at all. Both DH and I 100% agree that the child would never be left alone with DH's father - he could of course visit us and "see" the baby, but we would never leave the room etc.

I see it as my primary job to protect the baby. Even if DH's father never "did" anything or touched inappropriately, I do not want my child to have any "sense" of something being not right sexually at an age where a child should not be aware of sexuality at all.

The problem is that, to stop DH's father from holding the child, we would have to explain why. DH acknowledges that his father would probably accept our decision (and realise why) but DH also feels that it would totally break his heart. His father is quite an old man now and lots of things have gone wrong in his life. My DH's happiness and the fact that we're having a baby is pretty much the only thing that is now good in his life.

Is it unreasonable to prevent DH's father from holding the baby?

Both DH and I are genuinely torn.

I know this thread sometmes becomes a bit of a slanging match, and that is fair enough, but I really would appreciate some proper, sound advice please.

Go with your gut instinct. I can't add anything to the excellent advice given above, but you just have to imagine this as it will become a certainty: he will put his hand up her dress the minute you aren't looking.

No contact. Just say "I'd rather you didn't have any physical contact...I don't need to explain why." and give him the Look.

My dd (now 6.5), has never been looked after by my Mother, she hadn't been in her house since she was a baby, she has never spent the day with my Mother, without me there.

The situation is very different from that descibed by the OP.

My Mother I'm sure has hurt feelings (deep down somewhere) and often lays on the guilt trip, but it's my responsibility to protect my daughter - something my Mother doesn't understand.

I've got a really difficult conversation to have with dd in the future, thankfully she hasn't asked so far.

I think the first time he put his hands on his kids in an inappropriate manner he gave up any right to consideration for his feelings. Any at all.

There is forgiveness and then there is handing over a fresh victim. Fuck that.

Agreeing with majority here that absolutely no contact should be the way to go. While it is easier to protect a baby, they grow up quick and it is more difficult to protect a toddler who gives impromptu hugs and kisses and demands to be lifted etc

why has this man had no contact with children for the past however many years?

Why would you want to volunteer your daughter as the first child he will have contact with?

Jointly I would say now that because of past behaviour, you and your dh both agree that it is best that he hasno contact with his grandchild.
He must know why! Especially as he has had no contact with other children and other family members have been at pain to ensure this.

Sorry if he feels hurt, but you don't want your child posting on something similar to this in twenty years time on a thread like ' I 'm still angry that my parents knowingly exposed me to a child molester/ left me in the company of/ introduced me to' etc

no way!
Good luck!

This is a very sad thread. Im so sorry that you both have this stress to deal with while preparing for the birth of your child.

I agree with posters who say to address this now, not wait till your child is any older. Its not going to get any easier and your child may later find out that you risked them being hurt by the person who caused damage to their father and aunt. That would be very hard for them to understand and concern for your FIL's feeling is not going to work as a reason.

If you choose to let your FIL have contact and he makes your child feel as bad, as previous (brave) posters have shared above, it will also affect your childs trust in you as parents.

Incidentally, Please do not suggest Family Counselling here. Neither your husband or his sister should ever feel they are being asked to sit in the same room with someone who left them feeling so uncomfortable and afraid, and discuss this in front of him. If your FIL did agree to seek therapy it would also need to be a specialist, dealing with rehabilitation in this area, not a "standard" counsellor.

Individual counselling obviously beneficial and its great your DH found that helpful.

From your OP, your FIL is actually aware of his behaviour (you say he would realise why you are ceasing contact) and has not sought to change his behaviour so the likelihood of rehabilitation at this stage does not in any case look good.

I think the pain that (telling your FIL) will cause your DH at the time is nothing compared to the pain he would feel if something happened with his child.

Again, no contact. If it hurts his feelings, tough. Your FiL needs to know that you and your DH consider his past behaviour to be so serious and so unacceptable that you just can't take a risk.

Even if you watch his every move, what is the atmosphere going to be like. Are you both going to stand by his shoulder staring at his every move, giving each other nervous looks? It's going to be awful either way you decide but at you know the no contact wil definately give you peace of mind and protect your child. All easy to say when I've never had to deal with this, and I might struggle to carry through.

you cannot trust this man - sounds like he was never prosecuted? so no recognition of what happened?

keep "civil but distant relationship with him" . photos only.

dont give him an opportunity at all.

i have been in this exact situation.

with our first child we tried the supervised contact thing. such was my fear of destroying my family, i was willing to run myself ragged ensuring she was never left alone with him, all the while not raising suspicion as to WHY.

i will never forgive myself for exposing my first daughter to him.

needless to say, i couldn't ensure it.

i've not seen him for 3 years following a family gathering where i became increasingly uncomfortable with the way he behaved with her. i HAD to confront him (and therefore the rest of my family) about the childhood touching/inappropriate behaviour etc... i couldn't have lived with myself if i did what my own mother did and knowingly continue to put my child at risk of abuse. (i told her at 13 and she didn't believe me). my husband backed me a 100% and as a consequence actually confronted his own childhood abuse by his parents who he no longer sees. it gave him the strength to do it when he saw how much less emotionally fraught i was after facing up to my family.

long story short, we don't see them. unfortunately it's affected the relationships i had with my siblings too. i've had to accept that they don't agree with my actions but when it comes down to it i KNOW i did the right thing for my children (we had a second daughter shortly after cutting them off) and can sleep at night knowing my children are safe.

i also alerted my HV and social services so that it's on file for the future as i obviously can't control my sibling's decision to expose their children to him.

If you do decide, ASDF, to go ahead and let your FIL have some direct contact with your DC, be very careful about who you let know it's happened. As you can obviously see, most people would loudly perhaps quite nastily condemn you for it.

What ever happened to support, eh?

Who is your post aimed at cantsupinate?

Very small/new baby wrapped in blanket or similar-you and dh close by-let the old man hold baby for a few minutes.Then your dh should tell his father exactly why neither of you will be comfortable with physical contact when baby is older-restrict visits and that should be that.

i meant to add that your DH is unwittingly taking responsibility for his father's behaviour.

by adjusting the boundaries of what is normally acceptable (ie exposing a child to a sex abuser) in order not to rock the boat is taking responsibility away from the source of the problem, and shouldering it yourself AND indeed making it your child's problem also.

you should not have to monitor him.

depends how you're going to feel in 9 years time, if grandad pops round for a cup of tea while you child is playing in the garden in his/her swimsuit.

WOuld you be able to ignore the knowledge that Grandad is probably storing the image of your semi naked son/daughter for a wank fest later?

yes, that's a crude way to put it, isn't it.

It's true though.

sometimes i have to work with paedophiles.
if this was my case i would be very concerned.
firstly this man has sexually abused children in the past. he behaved sexually inappropriately towards his own son. he was seen to be touching his daughter unacceptably close to her genitals (a way of getting to her used to being touched there?). a paedophile is less likely to sexually abuse their own children than they are to abuse other children to whom they have access, including their grandchildren. why take that chance? i have worked with enough abuse victims to know that such abuse destroys futures.
secondly he is still a manipulator. your DH is still concerned about his father's reaction if he was to appropriately protect his own child.
manipulation is a vital tool for paedophiles. it gives them access to children, and can help them to maintain their relationship with their victims (your DH).
if you allow this potentially predatory paedophile to be a part in your child's life, not only is your child at risk, but your child's friends may be too.
to hell with his feelings. he has earned the mistrust with which he must be treated. as other posters have rightly pointed out, if you allow him any access to your child maintaining the necessary boundaries will become more difficult with every year.
and granted, a newborn in a babygro supervised by parents is not at risk - but how would you feel if you learned your parents had placed you in the arms of a known paedophile?

also if you and your DH have any misgivings about with holding contact give your local constabulary a call, and ask for some advice from their public protection unit.
if you get to speak to them you will be utterly gobsmacked to hear the lengths paedophiles will go to in order to have sexual contact with a child. some will groom for 10+ years; most will manipulate the victim / potential victims family, and will go to extremes in order to get what they want.

Cantsupinate - surely you know that what you are doing in letting in your words a 'proven child molester' have access to your dc's that most people would find this pretty hard to understand.

Obviously its your choice but just from the limited info you posted (totally understandably) the majority of people are going to think you've made a dangerous choice.

OP, I haven't read through the whole thread so apologies if I'm duplicating a question. Have your husband or his sister ever confronted their father about what went on when they were young?

it doesn't sound like it shockers and having been in their position, that is the stumbling block.

they're more likely to place their baby at risk if the fear of confrontation takes precedence over child safety.

I'd like to echo one point that maristella has made: "he has earned the mistrust with which he must be treated". What he hasn't earned is the right to be treated as normal family.

You would be well within your rights to exclude that man from your new family, and demand no contact. Many people would do that if the old man was a drunkard or a racist or even a smoker. What this man is, is far worse. Yes, it would possibly cause problems for the whole family, but maybe this is when the hiding has to stop.

Think about the possible aibu in 20 years time.

Aibu to hate my parents for letting a (known) paedophile have a relationship with me. They put his feelings before my safety and consequently ruined my life. They knew he was a paedophile and yet did nothing to protect me. I can never forgive this and want nothing to do with them.

What would the responses be?

I would not let a man that I knew to be a child abuser touch my child, nor indeed have any relationship with it. End of.