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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to not let DH's father hold our baby when it is born?

144 replies

asdf1234 · 04/05/2010 11:42

This will be a fairly long question I am afraid. I am asking this here as I am pretty sure I am anonymous...!

Its a serious quandry that I am in, so all advice appreciated.

DH's parents divorced when DH was 10. It has since emerged that his father was sexually inappropriate with both my DH and his sibling when they were young. There was nothing really serious, but both DH and his sister recall feeling that something was definately "not right" sexually at very young ages when they would not, in a normal family, have been aware of anything sexual at all. For instance, DH recalls being terrified, aged about 6, that his father would get into his bed and take his pants off. Also being terrified that his father would get into the bath with him. None of these things would have occurred to me re my father at that age! Also, both DH and his sibling have memories of inappropriate touching - upper thigh and crotch and of being aware at far too young an age (again, at 5, 6 and 7) that the touching was somehow odd.

Later, when DH was a teenager, he realised that his father (who of course he no longer lived with) was "odd" sexually. For instance, when they were in the car together when DH was about 16, his father would point out out very young girls (10,11 or 12 year olds) to DH with a "phwaorr, look at that".

when DH was 16, he was at his grandmother's house with his father, who had since had another child with a girlfriend. In front of DH and his grandmother, DH's father had the new child (about 5 at the time) on his lap and began stroking and inappropriately touching very highup her thigh. DH felt completely awful/confused/didn't know what hhe should do but his grandmother ignored it. DH didn't feel he could say anything at the time (and 15 years later still feels awful about that).

DH's relationship with his father is actually very healthy, in that he realises he is sexually very abonormal but has forgiven him for past actions. He is aware he needs to protect himself emotionally and he doesn't really like his father, but he still loves him - he is his dad. He has a civil but distant relationship with him. He sees him out of kindness and is not bitter towards him. I see DH's father with DH about twice a year, for an hour or two.

I am now expecting our first child, DH's father's first grandchild. DH's father is really excited and, although it is always odd and awkward, has phoned a couple of times to see how we are and has been round to see us.

Both DH and I are in a total quandry about what to do when our baby is born. Do we allow any physical contact between the child and DH's father?

I am veering towards no physical contact (no holding etc) at all. Both DH and I 100% agree that the child would never be left alone with DH's father - he could of course visit us and "see" the baby, but we would never leave the room etc.

I see it as my primary job to protect the baby. Even if DH's father never "did" anything or touched inappropriately, I do not want my child to have any "sense" of something being not right sexually at an age where a child should not be aware of sexuality at all.

The problem is that, to stop DH's father from holding the child, we would have to explain why. DH acknowledges that his father would probably accept our decision (and realise why) but DH also feels that it would totally break his heart. His father is quite an old man now and lots of things have gone wrong in his life. My DH's happiness and the fact that we're having a baby is pretty much the only thing that is now good in his life.

Is it unreasonable to prevent DH's father from holding the baby?

Both DH and I are genuinely torn.

I know this thread sometmes becomes a bit of a slanging match, and that is fair enough, but I really would appreciate some proper, sound advice please.

OP posts:
asdf1234 · 04/05/2010 15:18

Ok - fair enough Ditanny. Totally agree that the child is innocent and we have responsibilities re protection as adults who are aware etc.

OP posts:
porcamiseria · 04/05/2010 15:19

Id be interested to learn how many children are abused by people they know, ie in the family. shit loads I guess

OP I really think you are doing the right thing, zero contact

well done, as seen from others it is hard

dittany · 04/05/2010 15:22

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Acanthus · 04/05/2010 15:25

I think you should let him see and hold the baby, just once. The baby won't even know. Then when the next time comes for him to see the LO, explain in advance that it won't be happening. Let him have the joy of the birth, then have the hard talk with him. Because he'll have to be kept away for good, or at least at a long distance for good, as others have said. But there's no risk to the baby when it's so small. And your DH might be more able to go thru with something like this plan.

hellymelly · 04/05/2010 15:33

I wouldn't let this man see the baby at all,as I wouldn't want my child building up a relationship with him and getting to trust him-look further down the line,a baby is in your control completely but not so in seven or eight years.I would also tell him clearly why.

dittany · 04/05/2010 15:36

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Igglybuff · 04/05/2010 15:39

Agree dittany. Why expose children to known offenders? This happened in my family - with more than one offender being allowed near young children. I had to go a family function and one of these perverts was there. I refused to speak to him, even when he spoke directly to me and referred to my DS. I wouldn't let him near my child - I thought I might have been overprotective but my DH agreed with me.

My mum on the other hand happily let us have contact with the dubious family members when me and my brother were young. She's even doing it now with my younger sister despite me having words with her.

I will never forgive her.

minkymoon · 04/05/2010 15:40

Acanthus I disagree that there's no risk to the baby

yes there would be no risk of unintentional touching - but there is an emotional risk

its very confusing to find out that your parents let an abuser into your home like that. It feels wrong to have been hugged by an abuser who my parents KNEW was an abuser, even if it was just standard greeting hello hugs supervised and monitored closely by my parents, and nothing even close to inappropriate touching.

There are lots of risk. It sends strange messages to the child.

Of course they prob don't PLAN to tell the child but these sort of skeletons in the closet do have a habit of popping out!

dittany · 04/05/2010 15:42

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

EldritchCleavage · 04/05/2010 15:51

OP,
I am in the same position as blackcurrants. Still dealing with it. One of the hardest things has been anger with my parents (who made a couple of-to me-inexplicably naive decisions, way back when).
I urge you to think forwards to when your child is older. Take no risks, indulge no passivity or indecisiveness your child will suffer for or want to reproach you for in years to come. We're ok now, thank goodness, but you do not want to be in the position my parents were in when the anger boiled over and the shit hit the fan. The pain and guilt will never leave them. Mind you, it's still only a fraction of the pain and guilt I carry.

Mamalade · 04/05/2010 15:53

This is a no-brainer for me.

Unfortunately this individual is a paedophile.I wouldn't want him even looking at my child,let alone inviting him in and handing my child to him.

This is incredibly difficult, but your DH needs to assess which is more important to him,his father's feelings or his child's safety.

usuallyalurker · 04/05/2010 15:54

OP from reading what you've said it sounds like you have made up your mind. I think you need to make a stance before baby is born because it will be hard to decide how to handle things as your child gets older. It would be very easy to protect a tiny baby, but what about when the child is older and knows this person as 'grandad'. My DC aged 5 and 2.8 adored their grandparents and it's all cuddles on laps, kisses, having fun with and lots of laughs. How can you decide when to draw the line with contact? When they start crawling, walking, talking etc? Once you have an establised grandparent relationship it would be hard to end it. You must be in an awful situation, I feel for you.

Acanthus · 04/05/2010 16:47

That's why I say just one visit when the baby is small. For the sake of the old man, however bad he is. No harm can possibly come to the baby, OP's DH feels he can live with himself, then no more contact/ strictly supervised contact, whatever they decide.

GeekOfTheWeek · 04/05/2010 16:56

I agree with dittany.

I would be putting my dc's welfare before anyones feelings, let alone those of a child abuser.

minkymoon · 04/05/2010 17:02

"That's why I say just one visit when the baby is small. For the sake of the old man, however bad he is. No harm can possibly come to the baby"

YES IT CAN!!!!

it does you harm to know that someone who is known to do these things is /has been welcomed into your home / family

it does you harm to know that you've been held by someone who's known to get sexual pleasure from holding / touching children

by rewarding this man with any involvement with his grandchild is condoning him

OP - your DH should be aware that you can forgive someone without allowing them to have a role in your life. forgiveness is just letting go of hate and anger. He can do that without putting your family at risk

QSnondomicilabilis · 04/05/2010 17:05

I have been thinking about this today.
The more posts I read here, the more I am convinced that you cannot let this man see your baby.

JamesAndTheGiantBanana · 04/05/2010 17:17

I haven't read the whole thread but just wanted to tell you about my own dad. I grew up with that "something not quite right" feeling now and then. I was also scared of him on other levels as he was violent and abusive, so the slight perviness and inappropriate actions and comments were seen as a minor issue amongst all the other horrible frightening things he used to do.

Anyway, my dsis is a lot older than me and when she visited my parents with her dc she spent the whole time on edge because dad's behaviour got progressively weirder and weirder as her dd got older. The kids hated visiting but always said it was because it was boring.

We eventually found out (years after a family bust up which meant she was estranged from my dad) that for a time, my dad had been touching up her dd every time he got her alone. He'd never done anything that overt with his own kids.

It's so revolting and so avoidable. My ds was a tiny baby when I found out and I was still in touch with my dad, but I made the decision to ditch him 100% for the sake of my son.

The peace of mind knowing that my dc will never have that freak in their lives, and all the shit and emotional manipulation that comes with him is just amazing.

Whoever said that the problem would be 100 times worse when your dc is older is absolutely right. Get rid now.

pjmama · 04/05/2010 17:44

Should you let a know paedophile be in your child's life?

Why are you even asking?

rhondajean · 04/05/2010 17:53

Have you considered that maybe he should be confronted about it, told that you are uncomfortable with him being near your child and the reasons why?

Not easy i know - and I agree your first responsibility as a parent is to protect your child too.

Im not inclined to the "hang'emhigh" school of thought - but I do agree you never take unnecessary risks. Also offenders do frequently escalate over time so bear that in mind.

However, its your choice, dont let anyone say "you must" or "you cannot" - you sound like an intelligent and thoughtful person and I am confident you will find the correct way to handle it while making sure the baby is perfectly safe.

lou031205 · 04/05/2010 17:58

Sorry, I really don't want to be insensitive. But this is not a 'known paedophile'. That is a title reserved for a person who has been tried and convicted in Court. This is a man whose children feel uncomfortable around him, but have no concrete grounds for their feelings.

I stand by the view that allowing him to hold the baby in your plain sight is not going to do anyone harm. You can assess further contact at a later time.

dittany · 04/05/2010 18:04

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TiggyR · 04/05/2010 18:10

This post is very sad. It illustrates perfectly, in all its complexity, why it is not always easy for people in abusive/damaging relationships to make a clean break, especially in parent/child relationships. It is easy to understand why your DH has a distant 'civil' relationship with his father - less easy to understand why he doesn't just shun him altogether. However, I think once your own child is here, and your DH feels all that overwhelming protective love, he will find it harder to forgive/justify his DF's behaviour and it will end in tears one way or another. I would not let him near my baby in a million years. I'd be reluctant for there to be a relationship at all, TBH, never mind how vigilant you plan to be. But how you extricate yourselves from this, early on, without making direct accusations, or explaining your fears, God only knows. I don't envy you.

lou031205 · 04/05/2010 18:13

Apologies, I didn't see the paragraph you quoted, Dittany.

I had perhaps too kindly viewed the "his father would point out out very young girls (10,11 or 12 year olds) to DH with a "phwaorr, look at that". as an awkward, inappropriate attempt to relate to his son, IYSWIM, without realising their age.

OP, if your DH is sure about his father, then really the responsibility is his to set boundaries to make your child safe.

minkymoon · 04/05/2010 18:16

Lou, the op is not talking about going round an innocent until proven guilty man's house and spray painting PAEDOS OUT on it!

They are sure that this man has inappropriate sexual boundaries when it comes to children, all that is uncertain is how for this has gone - but does it matter? - there is no OKAY threshold IMO

dittany · 04/05/2010 18:17

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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