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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to not let DH's father hold our baby when it is born?

144 replies

asdf1234 · 04/05/2010 11:42

This will be a fairly long question I am afraid. I am asking this here as I am pretty sure I am anonymous...!

Its a serious quandry that I am in, so all advice appreciated.

DH's parents divorced when DH was 10. It has since emerged that his father was sexually inappropriate with both my DH and his sibling when they were young. There was nothing really serious, but both DH and his sister recall feeling that something was definately "not right" sexually at very young ages when they would not, in a normal family, have been aware of anything sexual at all. For instance, DH recalls being terrified, aged about 6, that his father would get into his bed and take his pants off. Also being terrified that his father would get into the bath with him. None of these things would have occurred to me re my father at that age! Also, both DH and his sibling have memories of inappropriate touching - upper thigh and crotch and of being aware at far too young an age (again, at 5, 6 and 7) that the touching was somehow odd.

Later, when DH was a teenager, he realised that his father (who of course he no longer lived with) was "odd" sexually. For instance, when they were in the car together when DH was about 16, his father would point out out very young girls (10,11 or 12 year olds) to DH with a "phwaorr, look at that".

when DH was 16, he was at his grandmother's house with his father, who had since had another child with a girlfriend. In front of DH and his grandmother, DH's father had the new child (about 5 at the time) on his lap and began stroking and inappropriately touching very highup her thigh. DH felt completely awful/confused/didn't know what hhe should do but his grandmother ignored it. DH didn't feel he could say anything at the time (and 15 years later still feels awful about that).

DH's relationship with his father is actually very healthy, in that he realises he is sexually very abonormal but has forgiven him for past actions. He is aware he needs to protect himself emotionally and he doesn't really like his father, but he still loves him - he is his dad. He has a civil but distant relationship with him. He sees him out of kindness and is not bitter towards him. I see DH's father with DH about twice a year, for an hour or two.

I am now expecting our first child, DH's father's first grandchild. DH's father is really excited and, although it is always odd and awkward, has phoned a couple of times to see how we are and has been round to see us.

Both DH and I are in a total quandry about what to do when our baby is born. Do we allow any physical contact between the child and DH's father?

I am veering towards no physical contact (no holding etc) at all. Both DH and I 100% agree that the child would never be left alone with DH's father - he could of course visit us and "see" the baby, but we would never leave the room etc.

I see it as my primary job to protect the baby. Even if DH's father never "did" anything or touched inappropriately, I do not want my child to have any "sense" of something being not right sexually at an age where a child should not be aware of sexuality at all.

The problem is that, to stop DH's father from holding the child, we would have to explain why. DH acknowledges that his father would probably accept our decision (and realise why) but DH also feels that it would totally break his heart. His father is quite an old man now and lots of things have gone wrong in his life. My DH's happiness and the fact that we're having a baby is pretty much the only thing that is now good in his life.

Is it unreasonable to prevent DH's father from holding the baby?

Both DH and I are genuinely torn.

I know this thread sometmes becomes a bit of a slanging match, and that is fair enough, but I really would appreciate some proper, sound advice please.

OP posts:
sleepingsowell · 04/05/2010 13:35

I agree with those who say this isn't a tough one at all. If it was my child it would be no contact at all.

Along with others, I think when your baby is here you will feel that too. Personally, given the history, there is nothing that would induce me to put them in that position.

When here, your own babies' needs and your need to protect them, will take over. Yes it will become clear to your FIL that you are doing this and yes it could/will be upsetting, perhaps incredibly so, for the adults involved.

But as others have said you simply CAN'T police him enough in everyday family life - so what's your alternative - letting your child suffer so that there isn't a family bust-up? Just not an option.

sunshiney · 04/05/2010 13:36

here's what i think:

You absolutely must tell your FIL that you will not be allowing unsupervised access to your child by him. This must come from both your DH and yourself. Get it established with your DH.

Because...I imagine what could happen is in a few years, your DH might decide that his father is a changed man, he's been trustworthy so far, it should be ok to relax a little...etc, etc.

Then you will be in the untenable situation of you being ever vigilant and untrusting, in conflict with your DH who begins to think he would like his father to play a role in his child's life.

Ps) no offence intended against your and your DH's relationship unity etc. I am just throwing out a 'what-if'.

dittany · 04/05/2010 13:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

winnybella · 04/05/2010 13:43

hear hear Dittany

SecretPollingBooth · 04/05/2010 13:49

IHeart, the op as described him as manipulative (and also alluded to him being a sad old man - good manipulating!)
and from the descriptions she gives he's a paedophile
i don't have my pitchfork out but my first thought was wait until you're holding your baby

Morloth · 04/05/2010 13:52

dittany "Children have never been protected in your dh's family..."

This is very true. OP I am not sure you can trust your DH's judgement on this one.

sunshiney · 04/05/2010 13:55

have to agree with the other posters saying wait until you are holding your baby then see how you feel.

i can guarantee you won't even entertain the idea of watching a man with a track record like your FIL cuddling and holding him.

blackcurrants · 04/05/2010 13:58

Speaking as someone abused as a very little girl: I did know that there was something 'odd' about my abuser, the way he looked at me was weird and DID make me uncomfortable, and the 'slightly off' touching - well, let's just say that's a whole parcel of issues that keeps on messing with you, way into adulthood and now potential parenthood. Lots and lots of Therapy. I know you want to protect your baby from that, and the safest way for you to do it is no contact. My parents didn't know I was being abused, and I'm still angry with them (a bit) that it even happened and they didn't somehow 'sense' it and 'protect' me. If, god forbid, he DOES inappropriately touch your child, and your child, weeping, tells you this when he or she is in their teens and unable to cope with all the snogging and groping that teens do - you'll feel terrible. The safest way to prevent that is no contact.

I think you are being lovely and considerate. I think your DH is still feeling the abusee's weird need to protect his abuser from the consequences of his own abusive actions.

I may be paranoid, I'd prefer the whole 'once bitten, twice shy' adage myself. Put it this way, I'm due at the end of July and if this LO is a girl she's never, ever wearing a nighty. Much harder to get felt up in PJs.

I haven't worn a nighty for twenty years. I can only sleep safely in PJs.

The safest way for you to prevent all/any of this?
No contact.

Igglybuff · 04/05/2010 13:58

I think no contact. By giving contact, however supervised, you're giving the message that it's ok to behave this way. Which it is not.

It doesn't matter that this man is old etc etc. Do you think you can look him in the eye whilst he holds your child?

And what happens when your child finds out about this when he's older? How will he feel if he knows that you took the risk by allowing this man near him?

Child abuse should not be brushed under the carpet, should not be forgiven or tolerated.

If I were you I'd cut contact. By all means explain why but you don't need to justify protecting your child.

baskingseals · 04/05/2010 14:08

op i think you should listen to aSilverlining and Blackcurrants - they know what they are talking about. unfortunately for them.

kingprawntikka · 04/05/2010 14:14

I think the problem with the should we let him hold the baby question is that the child will grow up and a toddler or young child is a lot more difficult to protect than a baby.

If you allow any contact with your FIL then i'm not sure how workable a never leaving the child alone with him rule will be... not without having a strange family dynamic going on .
What will you do when the child says "come up to my room grandad i want to show you my new car track", or "do you want to play hide and seek with me" or says "i'll wait in the car with grandad while you nip in to the shop".

Its obvious you can't trust your FIL, and if you tell your child as they grow up they are not allowed to be on their own with their grand parent, then I feel that sends out all the wrong messages to the child.
Either about whether people in general are good and if so why isn't grandad, and then following on from that if grandad isn't safe and good why do you let him in your home?

aSilverLining · 04/05/2010 14:18

Thanks for hug baskingseals.

blackcurrant I can't sleep in a nighty either even now as an adult - that uneasy feeling stays with you. I recently almost cancelled a major operation because they told me I would need to bring in nighties! In the end a sympathetic nurse explained I could wear PJs and catheter tube would be run down my PJ leg.

OP I hope this thread has been helpful,lots of different experiences on here and advice for both you and your DH.

"Child abuse should not be brushed under the carpet, should not be forgiven or tolerated." Hear hear Igglubluff!

dittany · 04/05/2010 14:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

diddl · 04/05/2010 14:22

TBH-if your husband wants to forgive & forget,that´s up to him.

But why would you put your child in the postion of that ever even being a possibility?

ILovePlayingDarts · 04/05/2010 14:26

I'd like to add that a paedophile does not stop being a paedophile simply on growing older; he's as much a danger to children now as before.

KERALA1 · 04/05/2010 14:33

Echo the consensus keep him away tough luck about his feelings.

My little sister detested one of my parents friends - he was a family man, in a respected job and the life and soul of the party. It was abit of a standing joke that my usually cheerful friendly little sister was so rude and rejecting to him from as soon as she was able to demonstrate she couldnt stand him. He ended up leaving his family for a 14 year old girl and now lives alone in Thailand [shudder].

CantSupinate · 04/05/2010 14:33

My brother is a proven child molester (sigh).

I have allowed him to have contact with DC, including hugs, but in very limited (very supervised) context.

I won't go into all the Whys I find that tolerable, it is very hard when it's a close family member. I could of course cut him off completely, but that would end up screwing up the lives of other (innocent) family members I care about.

Not saying what OP should do, but keep in mind that you would be actively accusing FIL of harm he hasn't actually ever done to anyone; the fallout could be explosive and unpredictable. Is your FIL really that complete a monster? Or do you feel happiest taking a Safety First Over Absolutely Any Other Consideration view? I don't think like that... but obviously most people do!

asdf1234 · 04/05/2010 14:37

Thank you all.

As I said in my original post, I do think that no contact is the best way. My job is to protect my innocent child.

The reason I asked is that I hoped some people might have had similar experiences (thank you for sharing asilverlining and blackcurrant) and I wanted to check that my instincts are not those of an over sensitive first time mother. I don't think they are.

Although its really easy to say "paedophile - report him, cut off all contact", those who have been in a similar situation know its not as easy for my DH (who has had lots of therapy - he is a Christian so forgiveness is important to him, hence, after many years of effort, the lack of anger and the place (distant but kind) he is in now). BUT, I know that for him, the most important thing is the safety and well being of his child and that this is a totally different thing to his relationship with his father - I know he will support me if I say no contact. That said, this will be a hard and traumatic step for him to take. As I said, this man is his father, so its not simple and he will cause a tear in the family (his grandmother will be devastated etc etc). That is something that I suspect that, for the sake of my DH and providing he supports me (as I know he will), I will openly take the blame for (I don't mind - believe me, there is no love lost between me and DH's father because I can't bear that he hurt my DH so badly!)

No contact is definitely the answer - but I stand by the fact that taking this step will be hard for my DH.

Thank you again for the "sense check" and the sensitive responses.

(By the way, my DH has thought long and hard about whether to report his father. He has for now decided not to on the basis that he is sure there is not enoough evidence for a conviction (hazy memories only) and because he has, throughout his adult life, kept aware of the fact that his father has no contact with children as far as my DH is aware. Our child will be the first child we know that he has contact with.)

OP posts:
asdf1234 · 04/05/2010 14:40

Thank you Cantsupinate - so sorry for your situation but thank you for getting the complexities of it all. Its hard, isn't it?

OP posts:
SecretPollingBooth · 04/05/2010 14:47

asdf - I'nm one of the "report him" ones, I realise it may not be that easy, just amazed that people on this thread are being so accommodating - IMO he should be reported but whether your DH does or not is not my call and is none of my business. I think there's a big anti pitchforks attitude at the moment (quite rightly), but that's leading to the very tolerant comments on this thread.

dittany · 04/05/2010 14:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

asdf1234 · 04/05/2010 14:50

Ditanny - I don't think that is very helpful to CantSupinate. She did not ask for advice/opinions. She was responding to my request for advice.

OP posts:
minkymoon · 04/05/2010 14:57

just because your DH and SIL dont REMEMBER what you refer to as 'serious' abuse, doesn't mean it didn't happen. its very common for victims to block out the worst bits. (but the fact that they were afraid of even the THREAT of their dad getting into bed with them IS serious)

A member of my family abused my mother and my parents never left that person in a position of power with me and I don't think I've ever been alone with him for a second. But like others, I still FELT something very un-innocent about any time spent with him, he looked at me like I was an adult licking my lips at him.

My FIL never acted in any way sexual to my DH, but he does do the whole "phfwar" business at under age girls and points out young teenage girls and complains that they dress like that (i.e. wearing skirts) then "cry" rape etc etc. That is not a view I EVER want my DC to hear, especially from someone who is deemed acceptable to come into our home and family. He is absolutely banned from our lives. I don't believe he would abuse his own grand children, but I believe it is damaging for children to be around someone with those views. I'm sure he's very upset about not seeing his grand children but I can't think of a single reason why I should care! He's a bad person.

Dinkytinky · 04/05/2010 15:13

I think you need to stop seeing him- maybe pop over a couple of times with you holding baby but wane away from contact- instead see them without your baby. This old man is a pedophile and what you descried is so so so wrong, don't put your baby at risk.

dittany · 04/05/2010 15:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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