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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to not let DH's father hold our baby when it is born?

144 replies

asdf1234 · 04/05/2010 11:42

This will be a fairly long question I am afraid. I am asking this here as I am pretty sure I am anonymous...!

Its a serious quandry that I am in, so all advice appreciated.

DH's parents divorced when DH was 10. It has since emerged that his father was sexually inappropriate with both my DH and his sibling when they were young. There was nothing really serious, but both DH and his sister recall feeling that something was definately "not right" sexually at very young ages when they would not, in a normal family, have been aware of anything sexual at all. For instance, DH recalls being terrified, aged about 6, that his father would get into his bed and take his pants off. Also being terrified that his father would get into the bath with him. None of these things would have occurred to me re my father at that age! Also, both DH and his sibling have memories of inappropriate touching - upper thigh and crotch and of being aware at far too young an age (again, at 5, 6 and 7) that the touching was somehow odd.

Later, when DH was a teenager, he realised that his father (who of course he no longer lived with) was "odd" sexually. For instance, when they were in the car together when DH was about 16, his father would point out out very young girls (10,11 or 12 year olds) to DH with a "phwaorr, look at that".

when DH was 16, he was at his grandmother's house with his father, who had since had another child with a girlfriend. In front of DH and his grandmother, DH's father had the new child (about 5 at the time) on his lap and began stroking and inappropriately touching very highup her thigh. DH felt completely awful/confused/didn't know what hhe should do but his grandmother ignored it. DH didn't feel he could say anything at the time (and 15 years later still feels awful about that).

DH's relationship with his father is actually very healthy, in that he realises he is sexually very abonormal but has forgiven him for past actions. He is aware he needs to protect himself emotionally and he doesn't really like his father, but he still loves him - he is his dad. He has a civil but distant relationship with him. He sees him out of kindness and is not bitter towards him. I see DH's father with DH about twice a year, for an hour or two.

I am now expecting our first child, DH's father's first grandchild. DH's father is really excited and, although it is always odd and awkward, has phoned a couple of times to see how we are and has been round to see us.

Both DH and I are in a total quandry about what to do when our baby is born. Do we allow any physical contact between the child and DH's father?

I am veering towards no physical contact (no holding etc) at all. Both DH and I 100% agree that the child would never be left alone with DH's father - he could of course visit us and "see" the baby, but we would never leave the room etc.

I see it as my primary job to protect the baby. Even if DH's father never "did" anything or touched inappropriately, I do not want my child to have any "sense" of something being not right sexually at an age where a child should not be aware of sexuality at all.

The problem is that, to stop DH's father from holding the child, we would have to explain why. DH acknowledges that his father would probably accept our decision (and realise why) but DH also feels that it would totally break his heart. His father is quite an old man now and lots of things have gone wrong in his life. My DH's happiness and the fact that we're having a baby is pretty much the only thing that is now good in his life.

Is it unreasonable to prevent DH's father from holding the baby?

Both DH and I are genuinely torn.

I know this thread sometmes becomes a bit of a slanging match, and that is fair enough, but I really would appreciate some proper, sound advice please.

OP posts:
Cherrybaby · 05/05/2010 20:15

TBVH I think I'd finally decide not to allow FIL to hold my child. Because if something did happen, I would never forgive myself. Or my DH.

Cant you just make excuses, like the baby is sleeping, feeding, needs a nappy change, doesnt like being picked up? I know its abit feeble, but maybe less difficult than confronting the issue...but then again, maybe you should confront the issue.

is FIL known to be mentally stable? I dont know of anyone, in any culture who gets into bed with their child naked and think it normal.

Slambang · 05/05/2010 20:15

OK - so dh has decided for now that he does not want to confront his dad and open up a family can of worms for whatever reason.

So - you both need to decide a on plan of protection for your baby. You may not want to open that can but I think you do have to be straight talking at least in private with with fil. Say to him 'We will not allow you to touch, hold or cuddle dd but we will allow you to visit us in 'public'. If you cannot accept this rule we will be forced to explain why to the rest of the family.'

I expect that shame and fear of exposure will ensure that he does not argue with the rule and will make excuses to the rest of the family to avoid contact with dd. If on the other hand he claims to be unable to understand your rules then you will know he is in denial and you will need to take more avoiding action by cutting contact completely.

missmoopy · 05/05/2010 20:23

I think your duty to protect your child outweighs any offence or upset caused. I would not allow any contact. And your dh, having been abused by this man, should respect and understand that.

AmpleBosom · 05/05/2010 20:32

Been in a very similar situation and we decided that no contact at all was the way to go, in this situation the relative had actually been convicted.

No way would i risk it, i didn't even want this person to know what my child looked like.

It's a hard situation but ultimately you have to ensure your child's safety. You might feel better able to make this decision when your child is born and nature kicks in with the hormones/instinctive desire to protect your baby

Wishing you lots of luck with it

shapeshifter · 05/05/2010 20:51

Asd, you asked if people had faced similar situations and I have and do (although there was never any doubt about my step-father, no grey areas, he was abusive).

He is an old man now and does have contact with his grandchildren, including my own dcs. He is never left alone with any of them and the contact is limited to a very few times a year.

They are not being put at risk nor am I condoning child abuse by allowing this kind of contact (as was suggested by one poster).

I am arguing somewhat (!) against the grain here but thought I'd share my own experience. It is clear from your post that you realise how complex the situation is and I hope you find a solution that is best for your family.

PaulinePetrovaPosy · 05/05/2010 22:38

i too have direct experience
half way through having my children i 'woke up' to what i was doing - allowing my dcs to see and be with a man who i knew to be a paedophile child abuser

fear of upsetting the family had made me behave in a certain way - along with the knowledge that although my siblings knew what their father had done they continued close contact

confrontation and me finally 'dealing' with what i had been through changed all that and the rest of my children have not met him

PLEASE do not do it. DH and i feel so sickened that we were blinkered by the 'maybe he is healed/sorry' mentality. Like the op the abuse was not severe but it was abuse - over years.

we were so wrong and regret that he ever met any of our precious dcs

blinks · 05/05/2010 23:31

i know where you're coming from PPP.

it's easy to say what you would do until you're in that situation yourself.

like you i woke up to it but i can empathise with those that don't... when you've been raised in an abusive environment, your perception of what is 'normal' is skewed.

through confrontation and therapy you can become reconditioned to recognise inappropriate and abnormal behaviour and act accordingly... in order not to go mad growing up with a parent who is in any way abusive, you MUST normalise it to an extent. it's a survival instinct and it helps you initially but once you've left and you've got your own children, it's a different story.

OP, your DH has a chance here to stop this cycle.

jessiealbright · 06/05/2010 00:01

asdf1234, how often are you envisaging that this man will visit, or see your child?

I feel that a simple no-contact rule isn't going to work if he's seen with any kind of frequency. Someone posted earlier (aSilverLining, I think) saying that their parents had such a rule, and that that they ended up saying things like "'put some knickers on under your nightie your grandad might pop round'."

What I'm trying to say, is that knowing his inclinations, you will not be able to behave naturally if he comes around when you've got your dc on the changing mat, and so on. Later s/he's on the potty, and grandad visits. Then there's bath-time, and grandad makes an impromptu visit. You're going to be uncomfortable, and fair enough, too. Problem is, sooner or later, your dc will be old enough to pick up on that awkwardness. And maybe they'll feel it's their fault! And maybe they'll be ashamed of themselves and their own bodies.

I could see a "cover yourself up, so as not to tempt others, sexual abuse is the victim's fault for what they were wearing" dynamic developing.

I hope I haven't been offensive or insulting to anyone, as I'm sure that the thought of blaming victims is repugnant to you and your dh. But such ideas seem to develop from little seeds, as simple as making sure that nappy-free time on the mat happens after the man's gone home.

Also, I concur with Sunshiney on page 3. I've got some abusive people in my family (nothing sexual, thankfully) and there's been a definite pattern on the part of the victims to become convinced their former abuser has changed, and "is a good person now". Had they? Not a chance.

jessiealbright · 06/05/2010 00:21

Actually, I think it's wrong of me to say "on the part of the victims".

Let's rephrase that as "there's been a definite pattern of abusers convincing everyone that they're different now"

MrsCrafty · 06/05/2010 01:05

Whoaaaa. I think some of us need to stop right there right now.

If there is a thin sliver of evidence that something is not right. Don't take that chance. I know it's hard but you have to think of your children.

I was not personally abused but too many close friends were by relatives.

I have worked around this by us never having nights out, five years and we are still strong on this.

My boy. If anyone wants to touch/wash your privates, tell them no. They are private and unless Mummy & Daddy are there, no one should touch them EVER.

MrsCrafty · 06/05/2010 01:08

I have a girl too, as you can imagine, the people that have spoken of abuse have been women. It's very hard and takes a lot of dedication on your own part. Please show your DH this thread and let him make his own decisions. I am sure he will support you.

Sakura · 06/05/2010 02:37

If he was sexually inappropriate with your DH as a child then all deals are off. Don't let him touch the baby.
If he was sexually inappropriate it means that he is a narcissist i.e either he doesn't realise or doesn'T care about the effect of his actions on others. It doesn't matter which it is, both are equally dangerous.

The only thing that would prove to me that he was "cured" of this narcissism would be if he took himself away somewhere, stayed far far away, and waited, humbly and patiently, for you to contact him when you are ready. If he expects anything else, all deals are off.

Sakura · 06/05/2010 02:43

I know what your DH is going through, I went through it myself. The hardest thing in the world is to accept that you were abused as a child and therefore your parent didn't love you in the way they were supposed to.

WHat PPP said is right. Some parents would rather "forgive" and carry on as though it never happened rather than open the can of worms, as you put it. The fact your DH won't confront his father means that he hasn't really processed what has happened to him. The fact that the father hasn't brought it up himself and begged for forgiveness is very telling because deep down it could be that he doesn't feel he did anything wrong. My abusers don't think they did anything wrong. They think I am mad and insane and bitter for not allowing them much contact with my children. I don't fucking care what they think of me.

Mamalade · 06/05/2010 15:25

To all the posters who have said they went through something similar to OP's situation,I just want you to know that I think you are incredible women.

You have obviously overcome something extremely traumatic and have gone on to become caring and protective women and mothers.

I really don't want this to sound patronising.I just want to say that I don't know if I would have been as brave,and I am steeped in admiration for you all.

pigletmania · 06/05/2010 15:39

YANBU at all I would not even with you being there noway! Once your dc is older it will be even more difficult without it being obvious and your dc wondering why they cannot be alone with grandad.

Rockbird · 06/05/2010 16:39

I would not let this man near my child. And I don't understand why him being an old man makes a difference. He's just an old paedophile instead. Have also had similar, would never put dd (or any future ds) in that position. They come first, no question.

Sakura · 07/05/2010 01:45

"And I don't understand why him being an old man makes a difference"
Exactly, it doesn't matter how old he is. Unless that old man has done a lot of growing up. But it looks like this one hasn't. If he was truly sorry for sexually molesting his son he would have begged for forgiveness by now, and allowed your DH to take out his anger on him. The fact that your DH seems unable to express anger towards his father is very sad because anger comes before forgiveness and peace. Also, have to add, that just because an adult forgives their abuser, doesn't mean they have to allow their children to have contact with them. I forgive mine, because I know they were affected by their own childhood. But forgiveness doesn't mean I have to let them near my kids, it just means I can live in a state of peace instead of perpetual anger.

SouthernB · 07/05/2010 06:52

What SecretPollingBooth said.

JodieO · 07/05/2010 06:59

I wouldn't let him anywhere near my child, nevermind hold them!!!

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