to think it's not helpful when people are overly negative about FF?

[lunartictoc]

Hi
Have been reading boards for a while under a different name, but wanted to post slightly contentious issue under new name.
AIBU to think that when discussing the merits of BF V FF, it is really unhelpful when some BF advocates try to strengthen their case with really negative comments/facts/ideas about FF? ie discussing how F-fed children are more prone to illness (including serious, like cancer) that it can lead to health problems for mothers, that it can cause obesity etc? I absolutely catergorically cannot BF my DS as much as I would have loved to - it is medically impossible. So I did a bit of research on FF, and many search engine results point here to MN. It scared me half to death reading what some posters have said about FF - I have no option, and without FF my son would have no milk at all! Some statistics (and indeed vitriol from the more judgemental posters) have just made me feel so upset and that I am being a bad mother, and damaging my DS in some way. I understand that pro-BF parents are keen to educate, and I understand that many F-feeders do so due to lack of support/education etc, but I think that there are many better ways to get across this message. Perhaps I am being over-sensitive, but some comments have really upset me! AIBU?

Sorry you felt you had to post tiktok, I was only joshing

Apologies tiktok - I absolutely didn't realise that my name was very similar to someone else's - that wasn't intentional. Lunartictoc was a name that came from my uni days! I fully understand why you would wish to disassociate yourself from my views, at odds as they are with yours. Sorry if any upset was caused. I am glad that you have chosen to comment, however, as I am interested in all angles on my views. I am commenting not only on MN (which I haven't been on for very long) but also mainly from RL experiences. I particularly like and agree with your closing sentence.

OP the way I see it is that many people think ff is the same as bf (or even better - the name "formula" was chosen to make milk sound scientific & improved) Just being told that BF is better does not have the same effect as saying why bf is better. Not providing honest information & sugar coating the message is not helpful for those currently making the decision. If the facts about the decision were not made clear those who can breastfeed might not. You couldn't bf & so made the best choice for your baby. Those who can deserve the information to make the best choice for their babies.

(As an aside I agree that occasionally people do go over the top - I see this as borne from frustration by people discounting reasoned information on this - not that it should be excused)

It sounds like you need to make peace with your need to ff, no doubt you make better decisions than others in other aspects of your childrens's live, promoting exercise or health eating perhaps..?

btw great post proffesorlaytonismyloveslave

Lunartictoc said, "I feel that it is far more productive for people to talk up BF, rather than talk down FF, in order to encourage more women to BF"

But this is blatantly not true. Just looking at the most recent thread this is probably about, those people who said they enjoyed breastfeeding or mentioned the oxytocin and the effect on bonding were royally mocked, and there was also a spate of 'What do you mean! I FFed and my baby and I are totally bonded'

Talking up bfing on Mumsnet is not easy.

This thread is about several other threads and it really draws attention to the fact that those threads had OPs that framed the conversation from a certain perspective. The current one is about choosing not to BF for no medical reason. Obviously, people are going to respond to that differently from someone who cannot BF.

Yet as you've illustrated, many posters ignore the OP and just hear, "BF is better than FF. FF is bad" and the defensiveness kicks in before they've even considered what is being debated.

Surely though, CarmenSanDiego, it is blatantly true in SOME cases? It IS very hard to talk up BF on MN - I agree. But I am also referring to RL, and people who have not been helped by this perspective. Different people respond to different things, so there is never going to be uniform agreement. And yes - I was posting from my own personal perspective. When trying to find actual information and recommendations on good formula options, both on the net and in RL I constantly came up against the "FF is bad" responses, which didn't help in a real sense, and didn't help my emotions at the time. I was just trying to garner whether or not my feelings were shared by others, and it seems healthily split?

Incidentally, in RL I was approached by a ridiculous amount of people, who felt it was entirely their responsibility to make me see the error of my ways of FF. Not helpful! Particularly without knowing my history!

Oh - and just to clarify - this isn't about any other thread. I'd not read any other BF FF thread recently when I posted

Aitch also makes the good point that there are maybe a couple of people on here that could be considered anti-ff in a way that is disparaging, insensitive and nothing to do with good, factual information. And it's the same in every topic. There's the odd extreme political view that's insensitive to other choices/lifestyles, occasional extreme views on the SAHM/WOHM debate, extreme views on abortion, etc. Well, that's people. The majority fall somewhere on a spectrum, a small handful are at the very extremes. It says an awful lot about them and little about the actual debate and why it needs to exist.

What happens sadly when the topic is emotive, such as with bfing, is that all statements that correlate in some way with the extremists are read in the same way. So a 'pro-bfer' is tarnished as being anti-ff simply by the fact of their commitment to and enjoyment of something. People who endeavour to support bfing by being open about the facts of the topic are juxtaposed with the extremists and seem to add weight to the negative sentiment when that was never their intention.

It is so very hard not to read the facts and be hurt by your own experiences all over again but it's important to try and not read all comments as personal, not assume that pro-bf is anti-ff and to know when it's time to be at peace with the way things worked out for you and perhaps just step away.

IMO, the best thing IRL for promoting and supporting breastfeeding is seeing other women breastfeeding and normalising it.

On a forum like this, who knows? We're all talking from a wide variety of backgrounds and perspectives. You've got everyone from a 16 year old who has never seen a baby before and all her friends FFed through to professional lactation consultants. It's hard to find common ground sometimes so people tend to project their own personal experiences.

Thanks showofhands. I think you're right about "pro-BFers" seeming militant by association. I am a pro-bfer! Really think it is the absolute best thing.
I am not hurt/upset and know that most posts are not personal. After reading the responses to my post, I think really I was more disgruntled about real life nosiness/help/interference than stuff I read on the internet (although that was part of it)
Having read and digested what many of you have said, I feel much better equipped to chat to a few people and perhaps try and spark a debate in my group circles in RL, and think about ways in which people - even minorities like myself - can be encouraged, in a non-invasive way.

You do sound a lot more like you're seeing it as a debate as well as a personal experience, which is an important distinction. Threads on here debating the topic are very different to the ones where people ask for individual support. Just as in real life. I suspect if you approached a rl friend to talk about the sadness surrounding your own experience, the conversation would be very different to one about ff/bf in general.

Its an emotive topic because what parents want to be told or have it implied how they fed their child wasn't 'best'?

Myself I personally dont give a shit, mine were happy with a can of Kestrel propped up with a soft toy

It really bugs me when some pro bfs blame the nations health on formula-it's laughable.

The reason the NHS is under pressure is due to the fact that as a nation we eat far more fat and do far less exercise than any other generation. Never before have we had a generation of children/adults that do so little exercise,kids largely don't even walk to school anymore they get driven everywhere as we adults do. I was bussed to school as a child,a journey my father/grandfather would have been expected to walk.

We have lead a very pampered existance over the last few decades and that is why the NHS is under so much pressure,that and better diagnosis/treatment for serious illnesses.

The blaming of formula for NHS pressure, is exactly the sort of rubbish I and many others particularly hate.

When certain people try scaring mums into bf by twisting stats the message that breast feeding is better than formula and mums need more support simply get overlooked.

As a nation we eat far more fat and do far less exercise than any other generation

Really? My grandparents' generation seemed awfully fond of lard, butter, dripping etc. etc.

Im sure your granparents ate more freshly cooked meals with vegetables and less additives etc and didnt rely on cars so much...

They didn't half as much red meat,processed crap and deep fried food.

Butter and dripping is fine(they often had it on a Sunday after a roast)if the rest of their entire diet isn't fit to bursting with fat.

We as a nation still eat butter and spreads disguised as better(when in actual fat they aren't)but also eat vast quantities of meat,fat and deep fried foods such as crisps etc on a daily basis.

Lunartictoc - I make it a point not to get involved in BF / FF bunfights but I would just like to say I think your name is bloody rude and insulting to a mumsnet member who has helped a number of people, including me.

Hmm.. chops, sausages, red meat in abundance. No sunflower oil etc.

And my children eat far more healthily than I did as a child. (Potato waffles and crispy pancakes, anyone?)

Previous generations had far worse diets and far less choices. Sure, some people live in McDonalds, but look how many people buy smoothies etc.

It's just a lazy cliche, isn't it... blame the people rather than improve health services.

I think its actually been said before that the war generation was the healthiest generation so far.

josie - I don't tink lunartictoc meant any reference to me when she chose her name

I'm not a bit bothered - I don't own copyright. Just need to ensure people don't think she is me in disguise .

You're very generous, tiktok, but I'm still a bit

BTW - while you're about, am having a bit of an issue - would you meet me on B+BF if I start a thread?

MilaMae, you said: "It really bugs me when some pro bfs blame the nations health on formula-it's laughable. "

Breastfeeding/formula feeding is a public health issue. This is not in the least controversial. It is a factor in infant and child health, not the only one, clearly, plus there is quite a lot of evidence (though difficult to quantify) that these factors impact longer-term on adult health. Why is it not a good thing that our children, as a whole, enjoy a healthy, active and as-far-as-possible illness free infancy and childhood, and for initiatives such as breastfeeding support to have state and health service backing?

You say you want the message that breastfeeding is better than formula to reach mothers - well, this message reaches mothers as a result of training, support, education, publicity and this costs money...money that is awarded not because bf is a nice thing, but because it has a measurable impact on health. What's 'laughable' about that?

josie - start a new thread and I will pop up

Sorry, my last post was to lunartictoc.

Thanks - it's there x

sorry - it's josie I meant !