to think it's not helpful when people are overly negative about FF?

[lunartictoc]

Hi
Have been reading boards for a while under a different name, but wanted to post slightly contentious issue under new name.
AIBU to think that when discussing the merits of BF V FF, it is really unhelpful when some BF advocates try to strengthen their case with really negative comments/facts/ideas about FF? ie discussing how F-fed children are more prone to illness (including serious, like cancer) that it can lead to health problems for mothers, that it can cause obesity etc? I absolutely catergorically cannot BF my DS as much as I would have loved to - it is medically impossible. So I did a bit of research on FF, and many search engine results point here to MN. It scared me half to death reading what some posters have said about FF - I have no option, and without FF my son would have no milk at all! Some statistics (and indeed vitriol from the more judgemental posters) have just made me feel so upset and that I am being a bad mother, and damaging my DS in some way. I understand that pro-BF parents are keen to educate, and I understand that many F-feeders do so due to lack of support/education etc, but I think that there are many better ways to get across this message. Perhaps I am being over-sensitive, but some comments have really upset me! AIBU?

I think that when you wanted to breasfeed but couldn't, it makes you REALLY sensitive to comments/perceived judgments etc. etc about the merits of bf v ff. I know that's how I was.

Sure, bf is better but no-one knows for sure exactly how much better - there are too many other factors in a child's upbringing to consider. Many of our generation were ff and turned out perfectly fine and your child will too. In the meantime everyone has pretty strong views on how to feed babies (and a vested interest to support their own decisions/situation) so probably best to steer clear of discussion forums on the subject if it upsets you...

except that our generation didn't turn out perfectly fine, we're the first generation to be generally less healthy and have a lower life expectancy than our parents. why do you think the nhs is in such a bad way, with this aging population?

I would be interested to know what an extreme breastfeeder is? Do you have to do it up a mountain or down a pit? Or can I do it in the apple tree and still get a badge?

Thanks for all of your messages of support, and also thanks to those who provide the balance. I think, Geraldine7 you have hit the nail on the head - "when you wanted to breastfeed but couldn't, it makes you REALLY sensitive to comments/perceived judgments" - that was what I wanted to say in an earlier post, but was rather more clumsy than you. Everyone has a story, and most people can find something to feel sensitive about - I guess this was the biggy for me, because I SO SO wanted to BF.
I'd like to also thank those posters who are concerned about me being sensitive to this subject, and kindly worried that this aibu post might set me off - I am fine about it all - that's why I have waited until now to post. I WAS really upset when I had DS, but several months on, and in a far more clear-headed light, I know that as there was nothing that could be done, then there was nothing to feel bad about. And DS is thriving, healthy and happy - and that is all the proof I need!

YANBU, but I really wouldn't dwell on the opinions of zealots. Breast feeding is fab but not everyone can do it. It's a physical impossibility for many mums and babies, which zealots choose to either ignore or not believe.

Babies thrive on both. If formula didn't work, it wouldn't sell. All over the world babies survive because of formula, where, if it didn't exist, they might have died for lack of food. It may be second best but it moves up to first place pretty quickly if there's no choice and whatever reason you choose or need to use it, don't let anyone make you feel bad about it.

I think there are many, many reasons why the nhs is struggling and life expectancy is dropping - probably none of which include the prevalence of formula.

so surely you can see, then, that to help the most amount of women not to be in your position of so having wanted to bf and not making it (me too, twice), then a less rosy, more clear-eyed view of ff is part of that? how can we demand support (although this was not your issue as i understand it) when the country bumbles on thinking that there's no downside to formula?

"and i am sorry you do more harm than good"

that is such bollocks. you are anti anyone saying anything positive about bfing.

because when you say people are being smug for enjoying, saying they are enjoying etc etc, you are judging. you are doing the very thing you are getting het up about.

geraldine, i don't doubt that, and i didn't make the link between health and formula, you did. i just take issue with 'we're all fine' when patently that is not the case.

well thesecondcoming, are scandinavian tits really so different from ours? please explain.

It is only a 'physical impossibility for many mums and babies' in this country. . Surely that is strange to you?

Aitchtwozone - you make some really good points, and I do see, of course, that there is a place for equal debate about pros/cons of BF and FF - that was my point, really - it's not helpful when people concentrate on the negatives of FF in order to scare women into BF when in some cases it is not possible. If you have no choice (mine wasn't a failed attempt, it was a medical impossibility)- ie adoptive mums, foster carers, mothers who die in childbirth etc, then I can't help but feel that there is an imbalance of opinon and fact, and that negatives are sometimes over-promoted, which can make people feel more shitty than they already are. I am talking about RL more than on here, although I do know some people who access the internet as their only source of information. I am not being precious about things, and I am certainly aware of the need for support, balance and education - but my point wasn't to stop the discussions - more to try and find other ways which are more helpful - ie ways which don't make people feel bad about themselves whether through choice or through necessity. I do know some women who have been put off BF in a contrary way, because pro-BFers have just annoyed them so much. Not generalising, just saying...

It's the culture in this country for sure, and in many others. And there is a lot of misinformation out there, some of it provided by formula companies. I grew up never seeing a baby BF for more than a few weeks and even my Mum who grew up in Ireland had only ever seen newborns fed this way. Certainly I was told to feed every 3 hours with DD which scuppered it somewhat!

This phrase, "my milk dried up", I heard so often that I thought it was just a natural process signalling the beginning of bottle-feeding at around six weeks. Had no idea that the more you feed the more you make. It's a totally counter-intuitive notion, we're used to finite supplies. The money in my bank account doesn't work on a spend more, accrue more basis - wish it would

I did actually get into a routine of feeding DD after work and in the morning and my supply settled to match this, so my breasts went back to their normal softness, as they are now that I am feeding DS 2.11. But because of what I had been told and had heard, I thought my milk had just dried up. I cried and didn't feed her any more although I could have continued for months and years with that pattern. No MN then. I'm very sorry for that but it hasn't made me bitter about BF, just don't want other women to have the same negative experiences.

(Excuse garbled post - bad night with DS)

"I do know some women who have been put off BF in a contrary way"

I seriously just don't get that. Not bf your baby because someone said it was a good idea. I am a stubborn stubborn lady and hate being told what to do but that is just really really weird!

"But because of what I had been told and had heard, I thought my milk had just dried up. I cried and didn't feed her any more although I could have continued for months and years with that pattern. No MN then. I'm very sorry for that but it hasn't made me bitter about BF, just don't want other women to have the same negative experiences."

Soooo many women think they don't have enough milk. They doubt themselves and their biological abilities.

Why is it a bad thing for the 'bf nazis' to want to change that in this country. Surely that is a GOOD thing so more women don't think the same.

RubyBuckleberry - I hear you, but I remember a conversation between 2 friends of mine - one pro-BF one not-bothered. The not-bothered one was pg at the time. After the conversation, she turned to me and said "I'm going to FF out of spite, now, and prove to XXX that it's just as good"
Some people probably can't be helped.... slightly off topic, but just wanted to quantify my claim!

'I'm going to FF out of spite now'.

Oh. My. God. That is the most ing thing I have heard in a while.

ah but you are generalising, mahoosively, and i'm sure when you are feeling less sensitive about things you will see that. i did.

the truth is that there are about three people on mn who aren't particularly sensitive to the feelings of those of us who didn't make it, which isn't bad at all imo.

and the second truth is that foster parents, adopters and people with medical problems are so vastly in the minority that they/we simply shouldn't be allowed to skew discussion and health policy in this way. we should be able to suck that up for the greater good, imo.

Also I know there are many women who do have supply problems for whatever reason which can't be cured by "feed more", I know that doesn't always work

My point is I didn't even know that I had been doing something wrong, it was years until I realised I could have continued giving DD some BM.

Aitchtwozone - " foster parents, adopters and people with medical problems are so vastly in the minority they/we simply shouldn't be allowed to skew discussion and health policy in this way"

How on earth can you say that? In the minority?? Do you KNOW how many children in care there are? How many babies there are, that adopters are waiting for the system to sort out? Of course debate should be encouraged and all facts should be made available, but I think it is very very damaging to disregard the feelings and needs of such a large sector of society - adopters are already up against it without dismissive comments of this nature. It's not relevant to this topic necessarily, but it is certainly a bugbear of mine when I read something so blinkered.

I don't think I am generalising, Aitchtwozone - in fact, I made a point of saying I wasn't, - I am fully aware that it is a sensitive topic to ME and that's why I am feeling it. I also said I thnk debate should be encouraged - I was suggesting alternatives rather than negatives. That's all

I don't usually post on threads which begin like the OPs, but I'm doing so now on order to dispel any idea that she is me!

Not my style to take on another persona, and I profoundly disagree with her views, anyway....while understanding the impact of any discussion of the health effects of formula feeding on any mother that's been disappointed with the way her breastfeeding went (people who decided to ff from the start are less bothered, in my experience).

I take issue with people who say things like 'you can discount anything you read about obesity and intelligence and asthma, because all that has been shown to be rubbish'....and then post links which absolutely do not show this at all. It is hard to isolate one particular factor - breastfeeding - in a child's life and link it to phenomena we know are multi-factorial (obesity, intelligence, allergy) and in some cases linked with socio-economic issues.

There is a great deal of research linking those things with the way a child has been fed. It is not a direct cause and effect, however. Moreover, different research throws different light on the topics - it now appears that the presence of a gene in 9 out of 10 people may allow them to profit from the IQ-boosting effect of bf, and in 1 in 10 cases the gene is not present. This has not been accounted for in all studies.

Work goes on.

Talking about the risks of formula feeding does not mean that people who use formula are dooming their kids to a lifetime of obesity, sickess and stupidity....it's highly irritating the way people dramatise the whole thing like this! The impact in any individual case is impossible to judge anyway - just as you cannot have any idea on how much your individual risk of being run over by a bus is affected by you stepping into the road without looking (I am not equating ff with stepping into the road...this is an analogy for statistical purposes only). It will depend on whether a bus is there, how quickly the driver reacts, whether you hear the bus and take evasive action. You cannot predict any of this.

Breastfeeding is the normal, physiological way for infants to feed, and for mothers to nurture. It is not possible for breastfeeding to do anything other than support the normal, physiological growth and development of the human species. Anything else - like formula feeding - is an intervention into this process and it will have consequences.

Society needs to do its best to make the normal easy to do and to ensure that individuals who are not able/willing to do it are given good information and quality substitutes.