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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think it's not helpful when people are overly negative about FF?

309 replies

lunartictoc · 26/04/2010 17:25

Hi
Have been reading boards for a while under a different name, but wanted to post slightly contentious issue under new name.
AIBU to think that when discussing the merits of BF V FF, it is really unhelpful when some BF advocates try to strengthen their case with really negative comments/facts/ideas about FF? ie discussing how F-fed children are more prone to illness (including serious, like cancer) that it can lead to health problems for mothers, that it can cause obesity etc? I absolutely catergorically cannot BF my DS as much as I would have loved to - it is medically impossible. So I did a bit of research on FF, and many search engine results point here to MN. It scared me half to death reading what some posters have said about FF - I have no option, and without FF my son would have no milk at all! Some statistics (and indeed vitriol from the more judgemental posters) have just made me feel so upset and that I am being a bad mother, and damaging my DS in some way. I understand that pro-BF parents are keen to educate, and I understand that many F-feeders do so due to lack of support/education etc, but I think that there are many better ways to get across this message. Perhaps I am being over-sensitive, but some comments have really upset me! AIBU?

OP posts:
APassionateWoman · 26/04/2010 18:35

Hmmm. The 'facts' often include sweeping statements of the 'formula causes diabetes/cancer/obesity/your fingers to turn black and fall off' nature.

I agree, fwiw@OP - spouting huge chunks of questionable research on the cons of formula feeding on an internet formula is unlikely to boost breastfeeding rates. Which begs the questions - why do it? If the actual purpose of doing so is to pat selves on back for successfully bf-ing / castigate other women for ff-ing, then by all means, keep on keeping on.

(Oh, and very few formula feeding mothers talk about 'breastfeeding Nazis', just like very few breastfeeders are actually 'smug')

EveWasFramed · 26/04/2010 18:36

Lunar, I was in a similar situation, and got the same sort of judgement. Rest assured, a few of the 'facts' that are touted have also been discounted (obesity and intelligence being the most recent two). Studies change, information changes, and formula is better now than it was when many of those studies first started. I have two very attached, very intelligent children who rarely get ill and are perfect weights. Both were bf for as long as I could, but primarily ff. Don't worry, the main thing is that you nourish your child!

lunartictoc · 26/04/2010 18:37

RubyBuckleberry - I hate that whole "BF Nazis" thing - so rude! What I meant was, if people are genuinely trying to keep others informed about their choices and support etc, IMO I would prefer for someone to talk up the good points of BF, and not necessarily bang on about the bad points of FF. But I guess I meant that for other places (RL), not MN necessarily, as this is about opinion and debate, not about healthcare advice per se.
Thank you sterryerryoh

OP posts:
Firawla · 26/04/2010 18:37

op yanbu
if it makes you feel any better i dont think so many mums really judge it so much normally in society as on here, so i dont think the majority of people would be judging or thinking anything about you ff your ds.
i ff mine too, the ott pro bf people get on my nerves who go on as if formula is like a poison, but just ignore..

larks35 · 26/04/2010 18:39

lunartictoc, the way I see it is that the FF/BF debate is pretty full-on (not just on MN) and I can see that people who FF, whether through choice or not, come in for some heavy-handed -criticism- advice. There are known benefits to BF, but not of FF, so it is easy for pro-BFers to back up their arguments. I just think that people should parent the way they are see fit and should avoid asking for the opinions of strangers on these contenscious issues.

(sorry I'm sure this thread has moved on somewhat since I started the post, but I was distracted by DS deciding to climb and then fall down the stairs. Mmmm... another debate could ensue here about the merits/demerits of stairgates...)

lunartictoc · 26/04/2010 18:39

Evewasframed - do you have any links regarding any of the latest studies on formula/intelligence/obesity? I have spoken to my GP and HV, but neither are that well-informed, and I'd like to know a bit more?
Thanks

OP posts:
lunartictoc · 26/04/2010 18:41

Thanks to all for responding btw - I have to log off for now, but I am really glad of all of your comments - those who agree and those who don't! I do like to hear all sides

OP posts:
EveWasFramed · 26/04/2010 18:41

I'll do my best to find it...I wish I could remember where the heck I got it in the first place!

SirBoobAlot · 26/04/2010 18:42

YANBU - but you are being a little over sensitive I can understand that with your circumstances it must feel like a constant attack. However upsetting though, the fact that "breast is best" is true - its not there to demean you or belittle your health issues. It is just a statement of truth, its not a personal attack, and please don't read it as so.

EveWasFramed · 26/04/2010 18:45

Intelligence here

EveWasFramed · 26/04/2010 18:52

here
and here

whittywan · 26/04/2010 19:00

Since having DS (19 weeks ago) I have realised that SO many people, on MN and in RL, have SO many different opinions about parenting (in this I include bf/ff) and that these views are often very fiercely held. Sometimes to the point of fundamentalism, and I find the kind of proselytising that occurs very distasteful.

We are practising attachment parenting, DS is ebf since birth, and we will be doing bwl. It is working for us. This, however, does not mean that any (or all) of these choices are the right choices, just the right ones for us. IYSWIM?

There are undeniable benefits to bf and bf is the normal way for babies to be fed.

But there are many babies that are alive today thanks to ff (adopted/mums' unable to feed/mums' dying etc). And many mums' who's sanity has been saved.

If we could all just stop judging one another and create a bf friendly, and mum friendly environment, I am convinced that we will see an increase in bf without making those that don't feel guilty.

sterrryerryoh · 26/04/2010 19:03

what a lovely and sensible post, whittywan!

diddl · 26/04/2010 19:17

Op-what I find sad is that people feel that they have to justify their decision on this to others.

ProfessorLaytonIsMyLoveSlave · 26/04/2010 19:25

Well, if you are genuinely discussing the merits of BF vs FF then it seems a bit odd to say that no one should mention the benefits of BF. Because then either you only get to mention the benefits of FF (pretty one-sided) or no one gets to mention the benefits of either (pretty silent).

There is real research supporting almost all of the touted benefits of BF, and it seems unreasonable to avoid mentioning them ever because it might upset someone who didn't have the option. And there's a real justification for talking about things in terms of the drawbacks of FF rather than the benefits of BF -- FF has become normalised to the extent that it's seen as "ooh, you can confer all these extra benefits on your child by breastfeeding" when that's just not the case. Breastfeeding is something women (as a whole) are designed to do. It's something most women are able to do. It's the way babies (as a whole) are designed to be fed. It's not a magic extra thing you can do on top of "normality".

It's like, say, TV watching. Assuming for a moment (as is often suggested) that watching TV under the age of 2 is bad for children, the message isn't "Hey, mothers! If you don't let your under-2-yo child watch television at all then you can improve their lot in the following ways..." but rather "Watching television under the age of 2 may hinder development in the following ways..." No one objects to that. I don't get worked up about it's being negative and unfair to me because I let my DCs watch Cbeebies from very young. I accept that "not watching television" is children's natural state and it's only reasonable to talk about the negative effects of television, rather than the positive effects of no television.

If someone physically can't breastfeed, or can't exclusively breastfeed, then the small disadvantages that her child may, statistically, receive from being fed formula rather than being fed breastmilk are clearly massively outweighed by the huge advantage that the same child receives from being fed rather than not fed. Even if someone physically can breastfeed but doesn't for [whatever reason] it's entirely possible that the small disadvantages that her child may, statistically, receive from being fed formula are outweighed by some other benefits stemming from her choice. It doesn't mean that there aren't, statistically, disadvantages to being fed formula. It doesn't mean that formula is as good as breastmilk. But it does affect whether someone should devote huge amounts of time to feeling bad about it after the event.

To use the television analogy again, I am quite prepared to accept that the statistics suggest that there may have been some small disadvantages to my children because I sat them in front of Cbeebies, but I am happy that those were outweighed for our family by the overall benefits to family wellbeing that I feel we got from it. I may be right or wrong about that; it may be that I would have done something differently under different circumstances, or with the benefit of some study that will come out in ten years' time.

It would be plainly daft for someone to suggest that letting an 18-month-old watch half an hour of In The Night Garden was automatically knocking off 20 IQ points and adding 5 points to his or her eventual adult BMI. I have encountered some posters who do imply that by FF, or by weaning a child at 5 months rather than 6, you are massively increasing the chances of all sorts of negative outcomes when the "massively" bit really isn't supported by evidence.

I think maybe we get more worked up about breastfeeding, and less able to accept that we have accepted some risks of negative impacts, because it's our own bodies involved? Or perhaps because it's about what is actually going into our children's bodies and physically making them up? Everything certainly seems to be taken far more personally for some reason.

moondog · 26/04/2010 19:26

'it's not helpful' you say.
What do you mean exactly?

SirBoobAlot · 26/04/2010 19:28

Good post by whittywan.

OP the other thing to remember is that once you are a parent, everyone has the right to question absolutely everything you are doing If you're BFing, you get asked "When are you going to stop?" or "Could you cover up?" - if you're FFing, its a case of "Why aren't you BF?". There have been many threads from different posters about both experiences, and in the world's eyes, you will never get it right, whatever it is you're doing. The main thing is to be happy in yourself; if you are doing the best thing for you and your baby, then, in the immortal words, Don't Let The Bastards Get You Down

moondog · 26/04/2010 19:28

Fabulous post Prof.
Really really good.

lunartictoc · 26/04/2010 19:30

P

OP posts:
lunartictoc · 26/04/2010 19:35

P? Where the heck did my post go!???
What I was going to say is, Prof - I don't know if you've read all the thread, but what I actually said was that I feel that it is far more productive for people to talk up BF, rather than talk down FF, in order to encourage more women to BF, and to maintain some kind of balance for those, like me, who are unable to BF. An excellent well-thought out post - thank you.
moondog - what I meant by "not helpful" (and I am referring here to some over-vitriolic posters on t'internet AND some persons I have engaged with in RL) is that when people are genuinely trying to help others to learn more about the benefits of BF - particularly those who have chosen to FF because it is the "norm" amongst their friends, or because of social pressure of the area where they live, or because of lack of education - it can be counter-productive to "slag-off" FF. Far more beneficial IMO to talk about the benefits of BF, and concentrate less on how crap FF is (and someone HAS said that to me).
In my own situation, when I was trying to garner information on the best formula, I was met with derision (MN, other forums and RL) and lots of bad-press about FF. Not helpful when you genuinely have no choice, and made me feel completely shitty during a v vulnerable time!

OP posts:
AngryWasp · 26/04/2010 19:36

Reading the OP only. You absolutely should not feel guilty. You have given your child the best start that you are able to.

I would be interested in your better ways to get across the breastfeeding message though, given that there is so much properganda and that our society is so anti-bring.

TheShriekingHarpy · 26/04/2010 19:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

OTTMummA · 26/04/2010 19:42

I don't understand why so many people judge other vunerable women about something that really isn't
A. The be all and end all of what makes you a parent
B. Something a lot of women don't have a choice on.
C.Anyone elses business TBH.

So long as your happy with the way you feed your baby, and baby is fine with it too, then really don't listen to a bunch of saddos preaching about something they can't really change.

EricNorthmansmistress · 26/04/2010 19:44

YANBU
DS was never Ex BF and he was ex FF from 4mo. I will probably never be able to ExBF a baby and it pisses me right off to read people talking about how much more likely DS is to get cancer or whatever else it is. To be honest though I have now got to the point where I just avoid that kind of thing and if I come across it I just remember that DS would not have survived without FM so I'm grateful for it.

HumphreyCobbler · 26/04/2010 19:46

what an excellent post Proffessor