To think this is vile

[RedRedWine1980]

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1267500/Meet-SWAGS-Service-Wives-And-Girlfriends--cheeky-n aked-calendar-raised-26-000-Help-For-Heroes.html

Money raising or not- urghh, just urrrghh.

'The Taleban have a warped view of ALL women RRW, not just Western ones.'

That is a very good point.

Its not just the taliban though- many muslim countries think westernised men and women act promiscous, immoral and have no decorum or modesty. Its not about having to be covered from head to toe in a burkha but stripping off for calenders etc just reinforces the view.

no you miss understand me RRW! I admire you for standing up for your views and respect them! what I was trying to say was its sad people are labelled for their views, I think someone before mentioned being labelled a prude etc... for not accepting this behaviour which is wrong but its also wrong to find people who accept this behaviour as 'traitors to women' (I don't mean you btw just in general! )

Okay RooBear sorry
Im actually well impressed though one of my brainstorms has generated so many responses lol

I also agree that the way westerns 'behave' in foreign countries is disgraceful sometimes and makes me ashamed as I don't drink smoke etc... but what people have on their own walls at home is their business

I think its tacky..decidely naff...the fact it raised money does not take away the fact that is what it is..

This has absolutely nothing to do with feminity at all..its about women getting their tits out!..yes men and women are different we are a complement to each other in fact...as far as I'm concerned being female does not constitute the display of me bosoms!! same I would not expect a man to display his six pack/beer belly ..delete where appropriate...tis rubbish

'The shite 'oh well we aren't equal to men, oh well if it raises money..' etc etc.'

I don't think I've said on here that women aren't equal to men, please quote me if I have. I do think that the money raised is a great amount and will be welcomed by those who need treatment and rehab at Headley Court and other places. I find it sad that these girls have had to raise the money, and that HM Govt aren't funding what they should. If my db is injured whilst in Afghanistan in the next couple of months, then I would be grateful for the money raised and that it was used to put him back together.

Society has been aware of the sexualisation/objectifying of women for a long time, and in the last 4 decades women's rights have come a long way. However, part of women's rights means doing what you like with your body; it means a high earning woman paying her ex maintenance; what it does NOT mean is that we have all to subscribe to the very narrow viewpoint that some feminists still seem to espouse. It also means that women do the same to men in the objectifying stakes - Robbie Williams worship at one stage for instance; calendars of boy bands as eye candy for teenage girls.

It also doesn't mean that we view men as the enemy, they are not. I do not see myself as inferior to any man, just different. I am an individual, as are they. This 'them and us' division which you seem to want to apply, doesn't help. It accentuates the differences rather than focusing on the similarities.

sorry too, I have a way of rambling, I think this a great debate so well done for starting it! I think people have strong views on things like this not many people would sit on the fence

'Doing what they like with their body...'

Didnt a poster earlier say the calender was 'suggested' by the boyfriend of the girl who got her threepenny bits out for the sun and rallied round more 'like minded' troops to get their kit off for their men?

I think polygamy is immoral and promiscuous, and it is allowed in Islam - where does that leave us?

As long as they dont sit on the fence nekkid RooBear- could be a bit uncomfortable

Just because my husband might suggest I get up and make the tea in the morning, doesn't mean I'm going to do it though.

lol RRW

RRW - I don't think it's the 'countries' that think that way about women! It's unfair to assume that whole countries/religions or whatever think one way about anything.

Scaryteacher, I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say/ask here?

'I think polygamy is immoral and promiscuous, and it is allowed in Islam - where does that leave us?'

RRW posted - 'Its not just the taliban though- many muslim countries think westernised men and women act promiscous, immoral and have no decorum or modesty.', hence my response which you are querying.

I think we have gone down the pan a bit tbh if even raising money boils down to titilation and glorifying women being leered at by men. Vice versa for the horrid nudey fireman etc calenders.

RRW: I think the fact that the Taliban would be enraged by such a calendar is one of the best arguments for producing it. As I have often argued, sexual display, promiscuity and hedonism are all GOOD things to be defended (though those who don't like them should be entitled not to take part, obviously.) Socieites which don't 'permit' sexual display tend to have far, far worse records on women's rights than societies where sex is a big part of life. So I think that 'sexualisation' of a society isn't necessarily a bad thing. Sex is fun.

wow so its now become a feminist issue huh?...wonder if any of them are feminists?..taking their kit off for the feminist cause ...its just unimaginative tat...'how can we make money?' 'ohh lets take our clothes off!'..typical

Exactly mumcentre- couldnt be any more unoriginal.
I personally think the one who came up with the idea enjoys being admired by other men tbh hence the topless shot in the Sun and used this calender as an excuse to get herself noticed..its sad women base their worth on how many men find them 'fit' and lechable. Is this how young women are being moulded these days?

It's the guard dog picture that disturbs me greatly - which one of the Nazi death camps was it where they trained the dogs to rape women? Whoever thought that particular photo up needs telling just how wrong that image is and for what reason.

I don't have a problem with people getting photographed naked, for fun or for serious reasons, after all, a lot of the world's greatest art features the naked human body - it's the lack thought behind these pictures that is saddening.

I know when when DH was still in, the last thing I would have wanted was his mates telling him what they thought of my arse!

Yes, scary, I understood you were responding but don't see what you're getting at. Two wrongs don't make a right imo.

It is a feminist issue to insist that women have the right to have loads of sex and run around naked IF THEY WANT TO. It's euqlly a feminist isse to insist that no one should be forced to do it.

I don't care how much money it makes for who - this calendar is vile, and the picture witht eh guard dogs is particularly vile. And I will happily say this on any board anyone likes.

RRw's argument seemed to be that the calendar was reinforcing stereotypes of the West and therefore should not be allowed.

I find much of what the Taleban wants abhorrent, but I don't see them changing - why should the West?

No exactly why should the west- lets carry on being promiscous, immoral and dragging up little asbo kids and wannabe glamma models and reality tv starts because after all who needs a brain when you can get such admiration for stripping off innit?