To think this is vile

[RedRedWine1980]

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1267500/Meet-SWAGS-Service-Wives-And-Girlfriends--cheeky-n aked-calendar-raised-26-000-Help-For-Heroes.html

Money raising or not- urghh, just urrrghh.

There's a lot of stats on US military sexual assault here. It's been well documented here.

Cursory google for UK info shows up this article here which claims almost half of women serving in the RAF have been sexually harassed and that a MoD survey found 40% of British soldiers believed there was an institutional problem with bullying, discrimination and sexual harrassment.

UK link - not got the original source as I can't stick around now, but I'm sure you can google the MoD survey.

YANBU.

I don't care if it was for a good cause, there are so many other ways of raising money without taking our clothes off. My friend did a bikini carwash recently to raise money and asked if I would help out. I felt ill at the thought of doing something so grossly demeaning, obviously I said no. What had happened in our society that seemingly intelligent women think it is a good idea and fun to be leched and leered at by paying men?

I get so depressed at how commonplace this kind of thing is now, and how if you dare to say you find things like this demeaning to women you are some kind of prude or fridgid. Or even better just jealous (er I don't scrub up too bad thanks!) I do not object to the nakedness in itself, I don't shield my dc from nakedness in its natural form, i.e. at home, topless women on the beach, but it is the tawdry representations of women that are so ubiquitous in our society today that depress me and wonder how my dc will view women/themselves in the future; calendars like this although possibly beginning as a bit of fun are part of a wider picture of objectifying women.

has happened

Hi lady - I don't think anywhere I stated that I spoke for all women! 'I certainly would not enforce my opinion upon others but I would share it with them.'

And nor have I stated that there is something inherently wrong with celebrating the female form, sexuality etc indeed quite the opposite!

My point was that it is important to acknowledge the social context in which this calendar is placed - that it is taking place within a society that is unequal in many respects including gender inequality.

As I said before - if, we lived in a completely equal society the impact of this calendar would be very different - but we don't.

I don't think I placed my argument as a choice between being feminine and sexual or academic and professional - indeed that would be harking back to the 80s where the only way for a woman to get ahead was to mimic the behaviour of men. I think it is important to recognise women as a whole being and I didn't anywhere imply that these women in the calendar, or any woman for that matter, were bimbos or thick or whatever!

I don't want to be equal with men? Men and woman are not equal in any way, we weren't made to be, but that doesn'y mean either are superior?

I am a very different being to a man.

I am happy and perfectly capable to do the blue and the pink jobs around the house because I have to because most of the time I am the only adult here.

I would prefer him to do the "man" stuff though because he is better at it, he is physically stronger than me, he is much better at problem solving and the logical stuff.

Whereas I am the calm one who deals with the emotional stuff. the creative stuff and the "womanly" stuff.

I am fine with that because even though I am perfectly capabale of changing a tyre on my car etc, if I can get away with smiling sweetly at a bloke to do it for me, I will, because I would prefer not to do it.

'I can't imagine any forces female standing up to sexist behaviour....it's too dangerous for them...they would be ostracised'

You should meet my husband's ex-CO. She has two young children (both under four) and when her boss attempted to have her removed from command because she was pregnant, she stood her ground.

Her ex-boss is now "retiring".

I have to admit I'm not keen on the calendar - not my kind of thing. However, I don't object to it being done.

I do, however, object to civvies telling me how I should think about the organisation to which my husband belongs.

I would also be interested in hearing more about Carmen's theory about sexual violence in the Forces.

what's vile is that they felt the need to do it

now that is vile

Lady, do you by any chance mean 'equivalent'? Or identical?

actually i don't like the calendar either, it's grim and sad and just grim again and sad again

but how awful that injured servicemen aren't sufficiently supported

That was my point earlier - had the Govt actually put support in place for the lads and ensured that Headley Court had what was needed, then this calendar would not have to have been made.

LRD - Explain to me what you mean by equal?

I feel I live in a society that is equal. I work in a female dominated environemnt and regually attend meetings where very important desicions are taken by mainly females.

I have never once felt discriminated against because I am female or demeaned in any area of my life.

I feel sometimes its the opposite, I manipulate men to get what I want because I am a woman I smile sweetly and flirt etc etc etc because I know I will get what I want.

i'm with you scaryteacher, sorry I didn't know you'd said that earlier

....and I also agree with Scaryteacher..

oh ladyanonymous you sound just like me, I completely agree men and women have different roles and regularly get set upon by female colleauges for setting feminism back 40 years. I never say men are better only different, i to flirt to get what I want, but I work on a army camp as a clerk so I know it works! I don't mind the calender, its no different to watching porn, which i do on a regular basis with my DH.

Oh so someone does finally compare it to porn.... great to see our country plays up to the stereotypes the countries we fight against have of us...immoral little slapper western women who shed their clothes at the drop of a hat

And I agree with a pp about not knowing whether its more depressing to hear this shite from the mouths of women or men

I agree RRW that any sort of 'titilation' is the same but I wouldn't say I was a western slapper thanks very much! I have a heathly sex life with my husband and no one else!

Lady, I never thought of 'equal' as meaning 'identical'. I'm not the same as any man - or any woman either - but I hope we'd be treated equally.

Do you get men who flirt with you to get what they want in the same way? Just wondering - I've never come across this myself, so I don't feel comfortable flirting to get my tyre changed or whatever.

I am not branding anyone western slappers. However people in Afghanistan and other eastern countries we fight against already have a very low opinion of Western women- this imho only serves to enforce that.

What shite RRW? We are as equally entitled to our pov as you are.

The Taleban have a warped view of ALL women RRW, not just Western ones.

I do find it sad though that those who don't like them are prudes and those who do are slappers, can't people just have different opinons and be happy with what they believe in and respect what others believe in either way?

what I mean to say is no ones either of those things

The shite 'oh well we aren't equal to men, oh well if it raises money..' etc etc.
Thankfully society has started to become aware of the sexualisation/objectifying of women and steps taken to try and reduce it...then you have THAT crap! Its downright subservient sexist and degrading nonsense and it makes me sad so many seemingly intelligent women are happy to support it.

Roobear where have I called anyone who 'likes' it a slapper? Do elaborate?

All I have done (quite well considering im in the minority I think!) is state my views on women behaving like this and mentioned feeling sad that so many are so accepting of the constant objectifying of women.