AIBU to not want to breastfeed?

[VixeyV]

Hi this is my first post but I have been a lurker since the start of my pregnancy.

Anyway, my question is I'm 20 weeks pregnant and the midwife keeps pushing me into breastfeeding. I just don't want to and don't get why she won't stop asking me how I'll feed.

To be honest, the thought of it freaks me out. I didn't breastfeed my daughter and she's fine on formula, she has aptimal because that's the best.

So what do you think? Should my midwife stop nagging me?

There are really three perspectives in this debate. The mother, baby and then the wider public health perspective.

The public health perspective does concern several people on this thread who work in healthcare. We're not 'weirdly obsessed' with breastfeeding or one-upping anyone. We simply know a lot of the health problems not breastfeeding can cause and want to improve the situation to enable (almost) all women to breastfeed if they want to and to be able to make a fully informed decision if they decide not to. From a public health perspective, there is really no argument - the evidence is massively, massively in favour of everyone breastfeeding if they are able to.

The perspective of the mother is probably the most prominent on this thread and this is the bit that's going to be based on personal experience and anecdotes with everyone defending their own personal choice. It also has a lot of projection with everyone taking other women's viewpoints or experiences as a personal insult.

The perspective of the baby has hardly been mentioned on this thread. My feeling on this is that first reflexes include the rooting reflex to seek the nipple out. Babies would opt for a breastfeed every time given the choice because it adapts to their needs and changes taste. Formula tastes the same every time and is a pretty boring diet for a baby who has been tasting different things through the amniotic fluid for a while. The mother can make her choice to give the baby formula. The baby has no say in the matter.

' And I also find it odd that people think that what was best for them is best for everyone else.'

This is the odd thing that I find about all these debates-it is as if people justify their own choice by saying it is best for everyone. Sadly bf isn't a positive experience for everyone. Although the baby has no say in the matter, I'm sure that all they want a happy, relaxed, loving mother.
Bfeeding is the ideal, but it isn't the end of the world if you can't or don't.

To those who are still insisting on being rude and derisory towards anyone posting about the positive experience of breastfeeding. It is women like you who get in the way of breastfeeding becoming normalised. Shout at me if you like, but it is. You are basically anti-anyone who has a different, usually better, experience of breastfeeding. I have asked this question a number of times - what will you tell your daughters? Will you get them all the support necessary? Will you implore them to carry on for the sake of their babies? Will you assure them it will get easier, even if it takes months? What will you tell your sons - to support their wives? Or will you be the mother who says, its ok to give them a bottle. I'll do it - you go to bed. I was FF, and I'm fine. This is fine in emergency circumstances OBVIOUSLY and formula can be an excellent compliment to establishing breastfeeding when it has had a bad start, but really - part of the problem is women's families - mothers, MILs, husbands, etc.

And before you start on me, this must be the case in millions of houses across the land, considering 90-95% (or whatever that stat is) of babies are bottlefed by six months.

And as much as people hate to even consider this, the breastfeeding issue is a public health issue, costing this country an estimated few billion. This IS reason to try and spread the breastfeeding lluuurrrvve - even if a few bitter and twisted posters on here refuse to give it credence.

And this argument of happy mother - happy baby, well obviously! But as someone pointed out, hundreds of thousands of mothers are left with a lingering sadness and anger at having failed (EVEN THOUGH IT IS NOT THEM THAT HAS FAILED, IT IS SOCIETY AROUND THEM.) I don't think the baby would blame you for persevering. A baby has to go through an amazing amount of stress during labour - I believe they are more resilient to the 'stress' of early breastfeeding than this argument gives them credit. Babies are meant to be breastfed, so why would nature make them so rubbish and unhappy at the breast? It wouldn't. So that is bollocks.

(Oh and I'm sure I've read that after a bottle of formula, a baby would need to be exculsively breastfed for two weeks or something for the gut ph to return to normal so the damage is not irreversible.)

Saying that, I do know someone whose child is anaphylactically allergic to nuts and she is convinced it was the bottle of formula given to her in the hospital without her permission .

Ruby

I am geuinlely curious as to how FF is causing a health crisis. Dont get me wrong. I did BF and I think its sad that in my neigbourhood hardly anyone does. But when you say :breastfeeding issue is a public health issue, costing this country an estimated few billion. eh????

Having said that, I am not a BF "militant",I think its a shame but in all honesty there issues that concern me more that the decline pf BF in the UK. I genuinely dont understand why people get so het up about it.

I am one of the first to cry "BF militants" and I am geuinely curious why people care. Its not your kid at the end of the day!

Personally I am far more troubled by childhood obesity issues.

also there seems to be a denial about the fact that some women cant breastfeed. Some cant! end of! I hate the attitude that if they had perserevered it would have been OK. Sure some women throw in the towel,but some genuinely CANNOT

in the days of yore they had wet nurses for this very reason (as well as for the WAGS of the day who could not be bothered).....

Porcamiseria I am going by estimates by the US and transferring them to the UK. I'm not sure a few billion constitutes a health crisis, rather than a public health issue, seeing as a few billion in a budget of £100 billion might not even touch the sides IYSWIM. Here are more links to studies concerning the health impact of not breasfeeding.

Ar there not links with FF and childhood obesity?

www.babyfriendly.org.uk/items/item_detail.asp?item=644

www.babyfriendly .org.uk/items/research_detail.asp?item=284 www.babyfriendly.org.uk/items/research_detail.a sp?item=532&nodeid=

www.babyfriendly.org.uk/items/research_detail.asp?item=466

Some people care because they want to make a difference in areas they feel that they can help in. And from what I can gather, most of the 'bf militants' are the people in real life who do help women succeed in situations where everything seems stacked against them.

I repeat - Obviously some women can't breastfeed. That is so obvious and oft repeated that it gets a bit ridiculous to keep bringing that up. I pretty sure noone is saying that EVERY woman can breastfeed.

sigh. the number of women who literally cannot breastfeed is present but low. seems like it gets dragged up every time this debate runs as a yes but!!

i presume the ones pro bf get a bit irate about are women who don't even try and cite half arsed reasons as to why not.

british culture does not actively promote bf as being 'normal' as long as there are comments like 'i didnt bf and seeing a mother bf makes me uncomfortable' (was under the article in the tabloid someone posted back along about the woman being kicked out of a charity shop for bf)

"Information from 3864 children followed up prospectively from their mother's first antenatal clinic assessment showed that children who were breastfed until at least 6 months had lower systolic blood pressure than those who were breastfed for a shorter duration.

Noting that childhood blood pressure tracks into adulthood, the authors conclude that breastfeeding may be important for reducing the population distribution of blood pressure and thus cardiovascular disease risk"

Whether people like it or not, bfing (just to be cautious) MAY BE a public health issue.

Here's a recent US article about how much money breastfeeding would save in hospital care. It's from CNN but cites the new study in Pediatrics.

Studies have consistently shown breastfeeding cuts hospital admissions, particularly for gastrointestinal and respiratory illnesses. Breastmilk also makes a big difference to premature infants and their length of stay in NICUs.

Though recent studies are US based, I'd think it would be more important to the UK to improve breastfeeding rates as the system is taxpayer funded. The US doesn't have such an incentive to have a healthy population.

I have BF my DD for 4 months (I was only intending to for the first month), it has been tough going sometimes and it ain't as easy as the NCT make out.

That aside, its free and meant that we didn't have to mess about with bottles when sleep deprived. If its feeding in front of others/in public that concerns you, you can usually find somewhere quiet to go. I have never felt that my baps have been on show.

It is your body and your right to choose but if you have really made up your mind why ask the question?

You know people like you ruby put me off wanting to even try BF with this baby after a traumatic attempt with DD.

I am sure you believe the way you post will boost the numbers of women that will BF but I doubt very much that I am alone in letting you know it does the opposite.

It just twists people up into an anxious state about potentially failing and how cursed their child is by their failure.

there need to be a way to promote BF that DOESN'T make mothers than cannot feel so bad. So IMO the whole "health" angle, will backfire. as can be seen on this website. time and time again.....

A classic example is the TWAT we had from the NCT, she just went on and on about "why" to BF. Err we are all educated people, we know this. Not one piece of advice as to "how", or even a hint that its hard work.

Unfortunately whilst the BF fans have at heart very good intentions, time and time again their message pisses people off. Time to rethink the markleting ladies?

Id have given up, were it not for my partner who is a BF militant in the extreme (yes a man!)

Sorry, off topic but was idly skimming this and lolled @"we recently entered our cars details into 'we buy any car.com' and they don't want ours...", thesecondcoming! I've long suspected that their catchy little riff was a big lie.

Good luck with your new baby, VixeyV.

YABU
BF can be very difficult at first but is well worth it. Women will BF or not as is their own personal wish/circumstances. Other peoples opinions should not push them either way but BF is best, no contest, and to not even want to try (out of spite of MW positive encouragement?) does seem unreasonable.

porcamiseri, you speak sense, as does a wonderful extended BF friend who has encouraged me gently, without pressure, to try again with this baby (am 30 weeks)

Then I come on MN, ignore my own advice to avoid BF threads and I feel the anxiety rise and fear kick in and I am back to dreading BF more than labour.

'Time to rethink the markleting ladies?'

Could not agree more, oh and try a little compassion too. Goes a long way you know.

I just wanted to add that I don't believe any mother who BFs has found it 'easy'and BFers may feel strongly about it because it is often a hard and painful slog to get BFing established - bit of a baptism of fire if you like, and have found precious little support or decent information available to get started which is essential immediately the baby is born. So BFers may come accross a bit evangelical because they know how hard it is and want to be positive and supportive to others when that support is absent elsewhere (HCPs, family & friends etc etc). HCPs may spout on about how important it is but they do not put in the time and effort necessary to guide you into it.......

It is great though, and free, and you get to eat cake more often.

Best of luck with the pregnancy/birth.

But Gibbon, you know this... you're looking in the wrong place for gentle counselling and reassurance on an AIBU thread on an internet forum.

If you talked to me IRL, personally or professionally, I would be encouraging, gentle and tailor my approach to your circumstances.

On Mumsnet, my role is not one of counsellor OR marketeer. I actually see this as a good place to debate and talk about research. There is a wide variety of doulas, educators, BF professionals and similar here and I'm interested in their viewpoints.

Everyone comes here with different purposes and I've argued this before - that the breastfeeding topic needs separating out into debate and counselling.

I dont know

Gibbon is 30 weeks pg and has said herself she is nervous about it again (sorry if I am paraphrasing her!).

I can well imagine that reading the vigourous pro BF opinions on here, and how they are worded might put her off a bit TBH, anyway she can answer for herself!

To be blunt, I am pro BF but I don't want to be associated with some of the people who I see here. They repel me.

again, I assert its time to rethink how pro-BF get their message across, as whatevers being done. ITS NOT WORKING

see I am no longer using the "n" word

I'm just trying to explain Carmen that sometimes the way in which people say things can have the opposite of their desired affect.

Maybe I am being overly simplistic, but surely if some women feel so passionately about BF'ing they would try their hardest to get that POV across in a manner which was most affective no?

I honestly do not understand why some people, even when they are told the manner in which they preach is having the opposite affect on new/expectant mothers, they carry on regardless and don't stop to think 'hang on, if I change my approach I may be more successful in my desire to help women BF'

And as for 'expecting' it in an AIBU I would politely suggest that in knowing there is such a wide audience some people would show more compassion and understanding so as to help more women. Not save it for a fluffy one to one session.

porcamiseria, you are spot on.

People will put their POV across in whichever way according to their own experiences and personality. Professionals may have a prescriptive way of attempting to support BFing, but you can't expect people generally to be adept at BF PR and taking into account how their audience may perceive how/what they're saying. A lot of how advice is taken is down to the recipient also.

We have to accept that it is a highly emotive subject which always brings out strong feelings either way.

Being strongly pro-BF does not mean automatic anti-FF or anti-mothers who FF.

But mylovelymonster, if more than one person was saying to you

'I understand what you are trying to convey and the message you want to get across, but the manner in which you are saying it is having the opposite affect'

Would you stop and think 'OK maybe the message needs to be delivered differently'

Or would you ignore and carry on regardless?

Gibbon, I'm sorry you're anxious and that this thread isn't helping. But to answer you...

A fluffy session is likely needed with someone who is struggling. And fairly obviously, that wouldn't be a place for talking about formula feeding statistics. It would be a place for counselling and support and reassurance.

But this is a thread on a forum which has a specific disclaimer that posters may be opinionated and disagree. It's well known to be a thread for debating and the target audience isn't hormonal, weeping new mothers, it's people who are interested in a debate. I haven't seen any personal attacks from the pro-bf side of the debate, so what is being objected to? Posting statistics and research? Posting opinions?

I realise the topic is emotive but this IS the place for posting statistics and having a debate. Posting those things is valid and reasonable in AIBU.

Gibbon, I'm not here on a mission to deliver a message or to convert anyone to breastfeeding.