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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To Pretend to be Catholic

201 replies

Aeschylus · 14/04/2010 20:43

For our DS to get a School place.

Basically the best primary school in our area is Catholic, and quite frankly I think religion is all a load of old mumbo jumbo.

However we are at a dilemma as to if we should lie and cheat so he gets a place.

ofsted report is fantastic, spoke to the head and he wants to meet us, we wont have a chance if we dont say we are Catholic. I know of some parents who lie about their address to get the school they want, but is this a step to far.

What do you think?

OP posts:
slouchingtowardswaitrose · 15/04/2010 18:34

'Does that mean all catholic children in non catholic schools should not be allowed to attend as they are not being taught the catholic way. i am pretty damn sure a non catholic school would not turn away a catholic child because of what they believe in. it should work both ways.'

No. The OP was about lying. Lying = no integrity.

LadyBiscuit · 15/04/2010 18:35

seanchai - yes you may have had to set up your own schools 100 years ago but that isn't the case now is it? And I have no problem whatsoever with any religions wanting to set up their own school, what I do object to is that they form part of what my borough counts as part of their education provision. When they exclude large swathes of the population then I don't think they should form part of 'State' education.

And fwiw ilovemydog - where I live, most of the immigrant population are Muslim. So they are of course excluded.

I can also tell you for a fact that coming clean at the interview around here would get very short shrift. Even those people who have started attending the 'right' church within the last year are going to miss out - because you need to have been going for two years to meet the admission criteria.

MrsVidic · 15/04/2010 18:37

YABVU- you are lying and setting a terrible moral example to your child.

ImSoNotTelling · 15/04/2010 18:42

She won't get in through lying though, she would have to provide evidence.

As soon as this was pointed out to her the OP went off for a serious rethink.

doingthelambethwalk · 15/04/2010 19:32

I am Catholic but probably won't even bother applying for RC schools for DC as round here there are lots of RC siblings + RC children who live close to the school so we could be on our way to beatification and it would not increase DC's chances of success!

But I wish we had either no faith schools or that we had the Scottish system. It just seems so ironic to me that we are called "Catholic" i.e. for everybody but are becoming increasingly a closed club that others do not understand.

I wish more people had a catholic (small c) education and understood what being RC is about as I meet so many people who think we are, at best, Mary worshippers, and at worst, homophobic hypocrital loons. Or even the p word. Not to mention all the people who think all Christians deny evolution and could never be scientists etc. (although masses of doctors are Christian, for example) - I know one of these who is "on his knees for fees" at a C or E church at the moment and I find it so offensive as outside of this he actively preaches not just atheism but a "Christians are ignorant peasants" creed.

By the same token I wish I knew more about Islam and Buddhism and Hinduism, I have had to educate myself as all my RC education taught me was how to say the Rosary (well, not really, but at primary level the syllabus was obviously not that well planned as it formed our RE project every year for 3 years).

One good thing about RC schools these days is at least they do teach children properly about being RC, the curriculum has really improved. So maybe only non-RC or lapsed RC children should go to them and my practising RC children can learn from me and from going to Mass every week.

BetsyBoop · 15/04/2010 19:47

"It certainly wasn't the case when I looked into primary schools in the North West. The entrance criteria for the best OFSTED-rated RC primary school in the area clearly said that preference would be given to baptised RC children but that applications from children of any religion were welcome. "

Well that certainly isn't true for all RC primary schools in the NW (Lancs here). There are 5 houses (none of whom have primary age kids) between ours & the local RC "outstanding" primary & we have zero chance of getting in as it is way oversubscribed & has been for at least the last 4 years (I didn't go back any further when researching schools for DD who is starting reception this year) Last year not all baptised out-of-parish siblings with parents attending mass weekly for at least 2 years got in (as they are lower priority than in-parish baptised kids with weekly attending parents) It also says on their entry criteria "applications from children of any religion or none are welcome" - yes welcome to apply but zero chance of getting in...

lifesabeach · 15/04/2010 19:59

if youre prepared to "lie" just to get a school place, what else are you prepared to liea about. doesnt really set a good example to your child , imo.

borderslass · 15/04/2010 20:15

when I enrolled my kids in our catholic school I needed to take their baptism certificates to prove we were catholics, but they do have to take a percentage of non catholics anyway.

ooojimaflip · 15/04/2010 21:33

Seanchi - "Voluntary aided schools pay 15% not 10%"

NO.

"The State pays pay 85% not 90%"

YES.

It is a question of emphasis. You are implying that the Catholic Church is buying the right to run schools.

I would say the state is paying for schools to be run for the benefit of Catholics with only a small contribution towards the costs.

Either way the church is getting a bargain at the moment ;)

ooojimaflip · 15/04/2010 21:37

The strictness of the criteria that schools apply is going to depend on how oversubscribed the school is.

MargeHomerBart · 15/04/2010 21:45

What I don't get is if you think that religion is a load of mumbo jumbo, would you feel comfortable with your children being taught catholic values?

Because that is what will happen. There is more to life than exam results. school ethos is very important. You are not catholic so won't your son be confused?

MilMae · 15/04/2010 21:51

YABU
you can lie, but you won't be able to convince the school. You'll need proof that you (or DC) are catholic, like baptism, a letter from the church, etc

most schools have a quota for non-catholic students, why don't you try your DC entry that way?

BetsyBoop · 15/04/2010 22:02

"most schools have a quota for non-catholic students" - I think that must depend on where you live, none of the RC schools round me have a "quota" for non-RC kids. They only have a chance to get in if the school happens to be undersubscribed in their year of entry and all the RC kids are in & there are still places left - which certainly doesn't happen in my are at all very often.

LadyBiscuit · 15/04/2010 22:09

My neighbour has her DS baptised to get into the school of her choice.

And who cares about the ethos once you get in? There are loads of state schools with no entry criteria which are CofE. A hell of a lot of children go to them when their parents either have no faith or they believe in a different one. Are their children confused? I don't think so. Or is Catholicism special?

Rockbird · 15/04/2010 23:24

LB yes Catholicism is different (not special). It's not just a case of prayers at assembly once a week like it might be in C of E schools. Religion is everywhere in Catholic schools right across the timetable. If you don't believe in the religion or think it's mumbo jumbo that's a hell of a lot of mumbo jumbo to avoid.

Quattrocento · 15/04/2010 23:29

Don't imagine for a moment that this is a serious post

ImSoNotTelling · 16/04/2010 09:07

LB it is different - there are a lot of things in the catholic belief system - like about contraception and termination - that I would have difficulties with being taught to my children.

however, I suspect that stuff doens't happen until secondary school, and maybe they aren't allowed to teach it in the same was as they were in my day? Dunno.

People need to understand that if you send your child to an RC school they usually get a lot of religion. Same as if they went to a muslim school etc.

It is a matter for parents to decide for themselves, but it needs thinking about, and tihnking hard IMO. it's not just a matter of grades.

jaabaar · 16/04/2010 09:21

Religion should not be used to get to other means unless you believe in it. Not meaning to offend anyone, just my personal opinion.

ImSoNotTelling · 16/04/2010 09:27

That would exclude a lot of people who have grown up in a faith and worship every week, but don't actually fully believe in it. Lots of people "go through the motions" - they still want their chidren brought up in the same faith though. Would it be right to exclude those people? I'm not sure.

There is an interesting question there I think.

ilovemydogandmrobama · 16/04/2010 09:41

It is very interesting what constitutes a Catholic. For instance what about someone (like me) who was brought up in the faith, is a bit lapsed, goes to mass every week for periods, then tapers off a bit, then regular attendance. Argue with the priests. Am horrified about the sex abuse and think the Pope has a lot to answer for. Don't agree with lots of aspects of the church, but don't think a bunch of men should hijack the church.

Then there are recent converts who go every single week, kids go to Children's liturgy, volunteer for everything going for the sake of getting their kids into Catholic schools.

Am not saying one is better than the other, but guess there should be easily applied criteria.

MyBoo · 16/04/2010 09:54

If you think religion is mumbo jumbo then why send your child to a school that is religious?

What will you do when it comes to confirmation etc?

seanchai · 16/04/2010 10:04

Good point, ilovemydog

seanchai · 16/04/2010 10:11

love the name, by the way, Aeschylus.
I'm thinking if you name yourself after a Greek playwright who liked to introduce more characters and more conflict in his tragedies, then you have set us up beautifully for one of the best wind up AIBU threads that I've read!

Bravo!

Or maybe I'm just reading too much into it...!

whirlygig · 16/04/2010 10:19

I understand wanting the best education for your child. As an ex-catholic, i don't think you understand how 'full on' the experience of going to a Catholic school is.

The religious component of Catholic education is prominent throughout the curriculum. It's more than just a couple of prayers throughout the day.

Even if you got away with it, (as others have noted,you will have to supply your baptism certificate and letter from your parish priest) if you don't believe in it, i think it could be damaging to your children to get very conflicting messages from home and school.

Go to a Catholic mass one Sunday morning, and see whether you think it's appropriate for your children's educational life.

whirlygig · 16/04/2010 10:26

your prob right seanchai.

why do i bother posting on this thread?