To Pretend to be Catholic

[Aeschylus]

For our DS to get a School place.

Basically the best primary school in our area is Catholic, and quite frankly I think religion is all a load of old mumbo jumbo.

However we are at a dilemma as to if we should lie and cheat so he gets a place.

ofsted report is fantastic, spoke to the head and he wants to meet us, we wont have a chance if we dont say we are Catholic. I know of some parents who lie about their address to get the school they want, but is this a step to far.

What do you think?

[clams]

Interesting - putting the morality of this plan aside and putting aside 'Catholicism is good/bad' arguments, I wonder how you could pull this off and if you haven't underestimated the lies and amount of time involved. If this school is heavily subscribed you'd need to be pretty convincing but if the head teacher wants to meet you already they might have some places and check less.

I think you would need to go to a church or mass somewhere well away from the school (if you're telling the school you're a Catholic anyway), go to the priest there and say you've had a crisis in your life and you think god might be the answer and start creeping/learning the ropes and get baptised pronto (there will be classes, etc so pronto would be at least 6 months I'd guess).

You'd have to explain away DP as lapsed or vaguely Christian as both of you having a road to Damascus moment is unlikely. You'd have to convert him later!!!

Then the school will want to see a baptism certificate for DC. Why haven't you had DC baptised? You would need a cert - you could say you're lapsed and you haven't got round to it but you're already at the back of the bad Catholic queue. At my local church you have to go to mass every week to get a child under 6 months baptised and longer if it's older as they know you're a school place chaser (although they do accept a bit of this as it keeps their attendances up).

So I doubt you can get away with exclaiming hallelujah in front of the head teacher and you'd have to arse yourself with a lot more work and time than that.

Without having the certificate & without knowing the lingo/routine you'd have to put in some serious swotting time and then serious

[ooojimaflip]

shockers - Any school with only 200 pupils already has an advantage. Are catholics more academic? Probably not. Does limiting access to only those who go to mass exclude some of the more problematic pupils? Probably. Does it lead to a more homogenous and comitted set of parents? Probably.

As I said above - the Looked After Children is a state requirement - I'm not saying it might not happen anyway, but it applies to ALL schools.

Community is not something exclusive to religon. Especially in smaller communities, you might well be part of the church communtity without being part of the church congregation.

Schools are NOT about community, they are about education. If a group wishes to fund activities that promote it's cohesion they should be paid for by that community.

[LadyBiscuit]

First preference is given to looked after children in all schools - it's not because religious schools are better at looking after children in care

[GrimmaTheNome]

Seanchai:

I've got the secondary schools admissions criteria for our LEA right here, and while for all community and CofE schools the first priority is looked-after children, for all the VC RC schools the first priority is baptized catholic looked-after children. Other looked after kids are down at priority 5 or below.

I'm really not impressed by this.

[LadyBiscuit]

I've said this before but there are 8 primary schools within two miles of our house - 6 of them are religious. By dint of the fact that I am an atheist, I am being discriminated against.

My neighbour has been going to church every Sunday for the last two years so that her DS can get into the best school in teh area by a long way come September. The church think she's really devout but she doesn't believe in god, she just wants her kid to have the best possible education. That's CofE though but it is perfectly possible to convince with enough forward planning.

We're moving instead

[redwhiteandblue]

What I don't understand is how you'd keep up the pretence amongst the other parents

Big difference imo between refinding God as a lapsed Catholic and totally discovering Him along with discovery of great school on your doorstep.

Round our way lots of real Catholics didn't get into the Catholic school despite being less than 1k away, married at the church, regularly participating in the community etc

I'd imagine if they found out anyone was pretending (different from bigging up a previously vague affiliation) they would have them for communion along with the bread and wine

[Rockbird]

"Funny how essentially the same question worded differently gets different tone of response...or is it a demonstration of what posting under AIBU does?"

I've only read up to your post but I was thinking the same thing Grimma

Oh and OP, YAdefinitelyBU

[ImSoNotTelling]

seanchai and shockers

The entry criteria the entry criteria depend on the school, there is no "standard" set of RC entry criteria. seanchai's list may be correct for her local school but others will be different/stricter etc etc

And schools in our area have RC looked after children at the top, looked after children of otehr reigions come further down the list than RC children, siblings etc etc.

So not really that christian after all. IMO. If you're looked after but are CofE then you can look elsewhere as far as they are concerned.

[Rockbird]

OK, have read it now. Firstly, OP you're bonkers, even using terms like 'rock up' makes it very clear how you are approaching this. I'm not getting too drawn in, I did it all in the other thread but what's interesting about this one is that it's showing how many non Catholics have no idea what is involved in the religion. I don't mean that arsily I promise, but C of E and RC are very very different. DH is C of E and I am Catholic and although DH now attends mass with me and DD and gets involved behind the scenes as I do, he still doesn't recognise half of what's going on. He couldn't wing being a Catholic if he needed to.

[ImSoNotTelling]

I see grimma and others have already made that point

[ImSoNotTelling]

I disagree rockbird. I was raised a catholic and am now CofE and find very little difference. If anything my new church is even more "full on".

It depends on which CofE church it is.

[ImSoNotTelling]

Sorry not trying to start a fight there rockbird! Just that it is possible.

As I see it the OP will have to go every week for years so she should get to know the ropes eventually...

[Rockbird]

Probably, I fully admit that I'm not really up on the C of E. I think it's more the nuances I'm thinking of. I don't know, he finds it very different from what he's used to.

[ooojimaflip]

Rockbirs/ImSoNotTelling - I went to a greek orthodox christening recently. I had NO idea what was going on most of the time. Nice church mind.

[ImSoNotTelling]

When we started going to our local CofE church, I felt right at home (raised RC) and DH was open mouthed and stunned by the "full-on-ness" of it - all the processing around and gesticulating and paraphernalia and so on - he was raised in a different CofE wing where as far as I can tell they all sit around drinking cups of tea!

They say some CofE churches are more catholic than the catholics

[Rockbird]

Damn, I have just dug out my boxing gloves!

Aww I'd love to do that oojimaflip. Most people (who would be interested in religion) just don't get the chance to witness other religions in action mostly.

[FabIsGoingToGetFit]

YABU

A friend of mine has started taking her children to Church in preparation for applying for the secondary school she wants them to go too but she will have been doing it for years by the time she gets in so no lying required.

[ImSoNotTelling]

Hmmm.

So is it OK if you have been doing it for years, and you go every week, and you know everyone, and get involved in all the stuff, and all of that sort of thing... even if you don't actually believe in god?

Honestly it's an interesting question I think. As a lot of people of different faiths go and worship as it's just what you do - they don't all actually believe IYSWIM. Is it the joining in and the helping out and the being part of the community that is important, or is it the god bit?

Because lots of people who have a very strong faith choose not to join in with organised religion, and for that they are penalised.

And what about a christian who switches churches to go to the right church for the school? They are surely acting just as cynically as someone who starts to go to church because of a school.

The whole thing is a disaster IMO.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

I'm really confused - probably because I am in Scotland...

But it seems to me that if faith schools are state funded which they are(?) then surely it is illegal to discriminate on the basis of religion.

And isn't every state school a faith school based on that ridiculous law that says you have to do acts of collective worship?

Sorry for hijacking thread, I am just deeply, deeply confused

FWIW In my area most of the schools are pretty shit going by HMIE reports (and the local catholic school is worst). I figure that if my kid works hard they'll do ok no-matter what school they are in.

[FabIsGoingToGetFit]

I have no idea if she believes but she isn't lying and she is very involved. The OP is being deliberately provocative and is happy to lie.

[StrictlyKatty]

I'm hoping this is a joke. As if you'd get away with it and frankly it's a disgusting example for your children to see you lie to get what you want.

The local Mosque gives away free food at lunch times so why don't you pop down every day at 1pm for a quick conversion, that way you can get free food off some and a nice education off others. All without believing or doing a thing.

[ImSoNotTelling]

Religious schools are allowed to discriminate on the basis of religion and that is written into teh discrimination laws at national and european level.

Ditto that eg RC church does not have to have clergy who are women, religious institutions are exempt from quite a bit of the discrimination legislation.

[EndangeredSpecies]

Aeschylus you are not morally bankrupt, you just think you have to lie to get what you want, when you don't. You can just come straight out with it at the interview and explain that this school, with its Catholic set of morals and outlook, is the best option for your children, even if they are not themselves baptised RC.

Why don't you just tell the head at the interview that you have an open mind to religion and want your children to receive an open and non-discriminatory education and you are happy to accept the positive values of the Catholic approach (because there are some, like a stronger emphasis on collaboration and family, in my experience).

[ImSoNotTelling]

Oh ROFL endangeredspecies what's the point of that?

May be different round your way but here if you haven't put in the hours of the exact rigth sort of worship at the exact right sort of church then you'll get the door slammed in your face and that's that.

[EndangeredSpecies]

Glad to be a source of mirth ISNT.

So you've tried to get into a Catholic school have you?