To Pretend to be Catholic

[Aeschylus]

For our DS to get a School place.

Basically the best primary school in our area is Catholic, and quite frankly I think religion is all a load of old mumbo jumbo.

However we are at a dilemma as to if we should lie and cheat so he gets a place.

ofsted report is fantastic, spoke to the head and he wants to meet us, we wont have a chance if we dont say we are Catholic. I know of some parents who lie about their address to get the school they want, but is this a step to far.

What do you think?

Catholic schools are 100% about the Catholic community, from the earliest days of Catholic schools, just as Church of Ireland schools (posting from an Irish perspective here) are about the CofI community and its viability. Catholic schools in the US (which receive absolutely no state funding of any kind, and parents pay through the nose to send DCs to them) are the same. The whole point of having Catholic schools is to integrate Catholicism into children's daily lives, and keep the Catholic community's culture viable. This has been the function of Catholic schools since going to school became a necessary part of childhood.

Agree with Rockbird, Catholicism and the protestant denominations are different, and have been since the Reformation.

Double ROFL.

No I haven't.

What I have done is spoken to friends and neighbours, scrutinised the entrance criteria for the local schools, spoken to the schools themselves, and looked at all the literature produced by the local authority to show how many people apply for each school each year.

Are you questioning my assertion that around here you only get into the religious schools if you practice teh appropriate religion in the specified place of worship?

Maybe you are questioning my statement that over 50% of primary schools here have entrance criteria based on religion?

Or maybe you know something I don't

In fact I'm not sure what your point is at all?

I would also like to point out that if I did want to send DD to the local catholic school, I would simply need to attend mass with my friends every week, who are going in order to get their kids in.

And, oh yes, that wouldn't be a problem because, um, I'm a catholic.

Oh no hold on a minute - that probably wouldn't work - as the school is a 20 min walk away - and usually gets filled by practicing catholics who live nearer than that...

So, I would also like to point out that if I did want to send DD to the local catholic school, I would simply need to attend mass with my friends every week, who are going in order to get their kids in. And then casually move house.

My point is that if you haven't actually tried to get into a Catholic school yourself, and haven't tried following the direct approach that I suggested, then you cannot possibly know if it works or not. So to "ROFL" at my - or anyone else's -suggestion without having personal experience to back up your opinion is not going to help anyone.

In YOUR area the Catholic schools might all be élitist and "slam the door in your face" if you're not RC but do you really know how it works at every school in the UK??

It certainly wasn't the case when I looked into primary schools in the North West. The entrance criteria for the best OFSTED-rated RC primary school in the area clearly said that preference would be given to baptised RC children but that applications from children of any religion were welcome.

I did specify "around my way". I have been trying to make people aware throughout the thread that different areas have different situations, and that as far as primary school entry and faith goes our area is particularly difficult.

I am also not just talking about RC schools, I am talking about all the religious schools. We have RC, CofE and Jewish. All based on faith entry criteria and most of them have no "community" places.

My point was that you cannot know what sort of area the OP lives in, and your suggestion that she go along and talk to them might be not terribly useful if she lives somewhere like us.

And I am surprised that you have dismissed the experience of my friends, neighbours and family, and the answers given by the schools, and the information posted by the council, instead preferring to say that i can't possibly know as I personally haven't tried. Riiiight.

Endangered, if by NW you mean Lancs, thats probably because we have a ridiculously high proportion of faith schools. CofE and RC - but now of course with large immigrant populations who can't (or really don't want) to use those schools, they are having to set up their own Muslim schools.

DH went to a meeting where an Imam was sadly explaining that they wanted to be more integrated but it just wasn't always possible.

OK, I'm with ItsAllGoingToBeFine- must be totally different in Scotland!!

as I said, definitely NO baptism certificate required at registration here (and I've now enrolled 2 children), no mass attendance called into question, and my non-Catholic friend had absolutely no problem getting her un-baptised ds, who had never attended mass in his life, or met the local parish priest, into the local catholic primary school

So I think the OP should move to Scotland, where we seem to be far more relaxed about these things!

But, equally ISNT, you were assuming that she lives somewhere like you!!

I haven't "dismissed" anything, either. Hearsay and friends' experiences are all very well but it's always worth having a go yourself, you never know how things might turn out.

Honesty is usually the best policy but if you want to knock someone down before they've even tried then go ahead.

I have no idea why you need to be so aggressive in your replies either, my post was directed at the OP.

But you assumed that she lived somewhere like you! If she lived where i live, then your advice would be poor, as she would very possibly end up without a school place for her child at all, and then what do you do. I do not want people to heed advice that is inappropriate to the area that they live, and end up in a dire situation as a result.

I also don't understand how you can say that me speaking to schools, scrutinising the admissions data provided by the council and so on is "hearsay"?

For example I have a friend who is a devout catholic (she is italian) had been attending church from when she moved to the area (well before she had children), went every week and helped out with everything. Her DC didn't get into the school attached to the church as she was too far away (about a mile).

I know that all of the local schools allocate their places 100% to people who have put the hours in at church/synagogue. Why would I make it up? If it were as simple as "go along and ask nicely" the don't you think everyone would be doing that rather than the current situation.

If I come across as aggressive it is because teh situation in this area really winds me up, it makes decent honest people turn into cynical liars, and I don't blame them for doing it. It is a shocking state of affairs.

And like I say, if you're not christian/jewish then you really are up the creek.

Hi - I am a teacher in a Catholic school, it is VERY oversubscribed and all children have to provide a christening certificate from a Catholic church on entering. If they haven't been Christened then the parents have to provide their own certificates and a reference from a priest.

They don't just take your word for it and while I have been at school three sets of parents have had places withdrawn for lying and in every case it was the child who dropped the parents in it. If you are considering lying your way in you need to find out what the school ask for in the way of proof. If your partner is catholic but you aren't they should still accept your child but children who live in their parish will be given priority.

Hope this helps

Yes but the fact your friend was turned down had more to do with the crazy postcode/catchment area thing, surely?

At the end of the day, OP won't know till she tries. And if she does try, is honest, and gets fobbed off with a load of élitist/cliquey catholic drivel then perhaps the school wasn't such a good choice after all.

How does a child drop their parents in it?

''They will slam the door in your face'' - what a lovely catholic thing to say. my dh is catholic and thinks this thread is hilarious because so many comments are daft. he said get over yourselves and find it in your hearts to forgive the op for even raising the subject of wanting whats best for her kids.

At the dss Catholic school most children have had to get a letter from their Priest confirming baptism. My dcs are there because they moved schools and there were places.

By the way have you thought of 'getting your child dipped?'

One told his teacher that he was Jewish during an RE lesson by accident and another talked anout his Priests wife (Vicar, local C of E) leading Sunday School, can't remeber what the others did

Voluntary aided schools pay 15% not 10%

The above mentioned is the admission criteria for all the Catholic primary schools in my city, regardless of which religion looked after children are from (if any)

Catholics wouldn't need to have their own faith schools if they had been allowed education, but one hundred or so years ago we weren't allowed to go to school in England
and therefore deprived of education

just for information!!!

That's hilarious!

If the OP is still around, isn't there a criteria that faith schools have to provide something like 10% of places to children in the catchment area?

I agree with endangered species, go for it but dont lie

"Yes but the fact your friend was turned down had more to do with the crazy postcode/catchment area thing, surely?"

No it's because they had more than enough practicing catholics who were worshipping at one of the two named churches who lived nearer than her. When everyone who applies fulfils the faith criteria they go to a distance rule to choose between applicants IYSWIM. So the school is 100% practicing catholics who live within a certain distance.

Round here you don't just have to worship in the right place every week, you also have to live within striking distance of the school. They are very oversubscribed, even the community schools, so people have to take quite drastic action to get a place. And we're not talking about people getting their children into the best schools either - these schools are average or good. People just want their kids to go to one of the local schools and not to end up with a monster commute or no place at all.

ilovemydog no there is no rule like that. There are two different sorts of faith school which get different levels of funding. One sort has to provide community places, the other doesn't. We are over-run with the second sort.

Fair enough. Am wrong about this.

"Faith schools are also an excellent way of excluding large swathes of the immigrant population so there are far fewer children who don't have English as a first language."

Our local Catholic school has a large immigrant intake, and many of the children start speaking little English.

YABU.

Integrity. You're either Catholic, or not.

I didn't really get that point about immigrant populations either. i suppose it depends on the makeup of the population where you live.

Does that mean all catholic children in non catholic schools should not be allowed to attend as they are not being taught the catholic way. i am pretty damn sure a non catholic school would not turn away a catholic child because of what they believe in. it should work both ways.