to be irritated at parents accompanying their kids on university visits?

[AmberTheHappyLuddite]

Why do parents do this? I've seen dozens of them in the last few weeks, standing on either side of their offspring like a couple of pot dogs... Why are they there? The decision of which university to go to is not theirs, it has nothing to do with them - these are young adults not babies. It seems bizarrely intrusive to me - I visited all of my potential universities independently, including one five hundred miles away. Nor did I consult my parents about where to go, I informed them of my choice. However, this was a few years ago and my parents put a heavy emphasis on independence.

Let your kids do this alone - it has sod all to do with you now.

I showed my DD2 the OP and she thought she was just being mean!
She's 18 and like most of her friends has done some stuff on her own, or with friends and visited another with me.
She's been in control of the process and just like with DD1, I didn't even get to see her personal statement until after she had finalised it.
IME I haven't met any 'helicopter' parents at this stage, or perhaps i just know who to avoid!

making your own way after university is not as easy now though, is it?

it seems to me that the "I stood on my own 2 feet & anyone who doesn't is a spoonfed wimp" brigade are much more dogmatic & unheeding than the rest.

Make of that what you will.

Nope. Loads of people I know want to move out but can't find enough friends to share the cost of renting with cos most of them haven't found a job nearly 12 months after finishing.

You're right to a point. However the average graduate starting salary is more than I ever earned throughout my career (until last week ). If I can support a whole family on considerably less, then your average graduate can definitely afford to strike out on their own - if they really want to.

If that's the case nappyaddict, then there are far far too many graduates. But I think most people, apart from the politicians, know that already. Again in my day (cor don't I sound old), you went to university for a reason - to follow a good career (if not a very well-paying one in my case). I get the impression that many youngsters these days go because they can't think of anything better to do with the next 3 years of their life.

I'm sure it's linked to the financial side of things. It's one thing when your children are going off to uni and will be largely self supporting as maybe was the case here twenty to thirty years ago. It another thing when the parents are expected to be significantly involved in footing the bill for it. In the US it would have been very unusual twenty years ago when I was looking around for parents not to come along with their children - but with the average cost at a private university at US$ 100K over the four years, I can't say I blame them. They were the ones who had to fill out hte detailed financial aid forms about THEIR circumstances. I'm sure the situation is becomign similar here and I think it is very unreasonable to expect parents to disengage from the process the way the OP apparently thinks they apparently should.

If I encountered that sort of attitude from a lecturer at a place where I was about to fork out a small fortune I would be more than pleased to tell them where they could stick it.

This is also setting aside the fact that it is completely reasonable to be close enough to your parents to want them to participate in an important experience in your life, even if you have the last word. Sheesh.

gaelic
it is very hard to stand on your own 2 feet if you are unable to find a grad level job on graduation
DD1(21) knows of only 1 person who has gone from graduation into a reasonably paid job.
All the others are making minimum wage working in retail or resaturants while doing MAs etc to enhance their CVs.These are all grads of top London colleges with firsts and 2:1s.
As another poster pointed out many of us older parents have much more harmonious relationships with our children than we had with ours, and I certainly would be very happy to have DD1 back home rather than to see her financially worn down.
Having said that the choice would always be hers.

I first went to university in 1992. Then most people went to university to delay getting a job - grants still existed, loans kept you going, students were still political, being a student was generally a great deal of fun. I am now back at university and today's students are studying in a much more cut-throat world. They are much more pragmatic, much more money and career focused, and having much less fun.

Choosing a university at 18 was about where I could enjoy myself for three years in a town with lots of indie bars; I wouldn't want to be choosing today. For those who write off these 17/18 year olds as spoilt brats, put yourself in their insecure and pressured shoes. They have been prodded and examined every year of their academic lives, and will go on to do exams at university every four months. Their expereinces are not the same as ours were, and so it is not surprising that they approach the whole thing often very differently.

As I said there are far far too many graduates. I think if I had a son or daughter of that age (which I don't currently, he's 3 - so shoot me) I would be advising them against university unless they were applying for a vocational subject with a clear professional career path to follow at the end of it. The market is flooded just now, thanks to the ridiculous target of getting 50% of young people into university.

vocational courses at uni is part of the problem, surely?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming the young people themselves. They didn't invent the crazy system we have now. But I do think that by taking more responsibility at the stage before they go to university - such as being expected to visit on their own etc. - they might realise that it is not just an extension of school but a whole new ball game with massive implications for the future.

Why are parents paying the fees incidentally? There are loans available, are there not, which are paid back when they are working? Are the loans means tested according to parental income?

yep

I meant vocational degrees as in Law, Medicine, etc. As opposed to Anthropology or English - not that they are not very worthy subjects, but in the current climate I'd imagine more difficult to build an obvious career from.

So parents aren't paying the fees (well, not unless they choose to & can afford it)

For the current year tuition loan is just over £3K pa

maintenance loan is between about £3.5K & £5K pa

grant for lower income families is - um - not sure but not massive.

There are also bursaries from the institutions for very low-family-income students

The average student is borrowing £7-8K pa from the SLC, so leaves owing c £25K (plus overdraft, plus credit cards if mad enough)

oh sorry, gs, I thought you meant eg golf course design or fashion photography

Really Ponders? I can honestly say I didn't realise that. Therein lies the problem. The Government is tying young people to their parents even when they reach adulthood. Very very wrong, but it makes the whole situation we're discussing more understandable (if very regrettable).

When I went to uni the grants were means tested - I didn't get one, and yes my parents did help towards my living expenses etc. That was all before fees of course. But I also took out a loan to help me and that was not means tested at all. Neither should it have been - it's my earning power (or not) that would pay it back, not my parents. That is outrageous.

student finance inf for England

Scottish finance is different. Not sure about Wales.

Sorry Xposted. I thought you were saying the loans were means tested. As in parents have to pay the fees if family income is over a certain amount. I should read up on this myself I know, but it's late and I shouldn't be here.

I appreciate the debt levels these poor kids leave with, but that's all the more reason for them to think very very carefully about what they're doing. There is a structured repayment scheme though isn't there, via PAYE or something. So they pay according to what they earn? I can't imagine a graduate on the minimum wage will be paying much back, will they?

It is outrageous, I agree completely.

Either it's a loan, to be repaid once the student starts earning, in which case they should all get the same; or it's means-tested finance, in which case it shouldn't be a loan at all but a grant, as in the bad good old days.

the loans are means-tested - all students are entitled to the basic loan of about £3.5K which barely covers their rent, but the extra amount over that is down to parental income.

(But if the parents are divorced, & the student lives with the mother who happens to have remarried advantageously & doesn't work so has no reportable income, then even if the father & step-father both have massive incomes the student is entitled to maximum finance of every kind. Makes me )

going back to the original post, I just went for the interview and told them after. Parents werent bothered, it was none of their business. I guess they are more financially involved these days but, whats with these kids that go home every weekend? I just couldnt wait to get away!!

Thanks for the link - I was too lazy to Google at this time of night .

In a sense though it's not that different from when I was at uni. I couldn't get a maintenance grant, but the loan available to anyone was a maximum of £2500 a year so my parents had no choice but to make some contribution (as they didn't want to sit back and watch me work my way through alongside my studies - I know I was lucky in that respect).

So they pay back 9% of everything they earn over £15k. Not sure if that's gross or net earnings, but based on gross earnings in my case that would be around £40 a month. Not a massive burden out of a £20k salary for a single person, I wouldn't have said anyway.

I looked at a couple with my Dad and a couple with friends and one on my own. When I started I went by myself on the train. How do you know what these families are doing and whether they accompany their kids all the time? I think you finding it odd is much stranger than some kids and their parents checking out unis together.

I think it is based on gross & you're right, it's not a huge amount monthly - but £500 a year, when you're repaying £25K, is a bit daunting!

When my eldest went (graduated about 2004) tuition was only £1150 I think, & minimum loan about £2.7K, so the accumulated debt at the end wasn't nearly as bad as it is now.

I do think that encouraging so many children to go to university, & then sticking them with this amount of debt, is just wrong. Loans were a Tory policy, but Labour happily went along with it when they got in. I think they should be looking to reduce student numbers & increase alternative training schemes.