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AIBU?

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Original poster

'...it makes me think of Baby P'

192 replies

elportodelgato · 29/03/2010 14:04

had an awful run-in with a woman on the bus at the weekend and just wanted to check the mn consensus... was I unreasonable to completely flip out?!

Travelling on a busy bus, Sunday morning with DD (22 mo). I got her out of the buggy to sit on my knee and she was happily looking out of the window, saying hello to people, babbling to the other baby sitting nearby etc. After about 20 mins she started to get tetchy and throwing herself around so I put her back in the buggy, mainly for her safety and also she was obvs a bit tired and needed a quiet sit down. Of course, when I strapped her in she wasn't happy about it and started having a bit of a grizzle - I was studiously trying to ignore her as she often does a bit of whining when she is over-tired and it only lasts about 30 seconds before she settles down.

At this point (DD grizzling, me ignoring her)I notice an older woman about to get off the bus, very pointedly looking at me, looking at DD and tutting loudly in our direction. I was watching her and once she had done it about 4 times I caught her eye and (this was probably my mistake) asked her if she had something to say to me. She began telling me that she would never leave a child to cry like that, that I should pick her up, that it made her so upset to hear a baby crying. I said (oh dear, red mist descending at this point) 'are you telling me what to do with my child?' to which she responded 'it makes me think of Baby P'

Now was I BU to have completely lost the plot and told her to 'fuck off you fucking bitch'?? I know I was, I shouldn't have done it, esp in front of DD, but that case really really upset me (like it upset everyone) and her comparing me and my DD to that situation just made me completely lose it. I felt like getting off the bus and telling her about all the wonderful things DD and I do together, how much fun we have, and how much I love her and would never ever hurt her. As it was, I just ended up crying on the bus and then apologising to DD, poor thing just witnessing her mother swearing at a stranger in a public place.

So what would you have done? Am I a raving lunatic?

OP posts:
Vinomum · 29/03/2010 19:35

novicemama, I would have reacted exactly the same way as you. Since becoming a mother, nothing has upset me more than the Baby P story. To be likened to someone who tortured a child to death is completely deplorable. Apart from being a deliberately provocative comment, it completely trivialises the horror that Baby P suffered. The woman on the bus - old, young, fat, thin, whatever - is ignorant beyond belief. In fact just plain fucking stupid.

I don't think you were being unreasonable at all.

BitOfFun · 29/03/2010 19:42

Are most people so quick to lose their rag when somebody says something so obviously stupid? I think I would have laughed, tbh.

Swearing at the elderly in public is far worse than any daft opinion offered by a stranger.

uglymugly · 29/03/2010 20:13

This bit in the OP is what I primarily want to reference (adding bold to highlight):

"I was watching her and once she had done it about 4 times I caught her eye and (this was probably my mistake) asked her if she had something to say to me. She began telling me that she would never leave a child to cry like that, that I should pick her up, that it made her so upset to hear a baby crying. I said (oh dear, red mist descending at this point) 'are you telling me what to do with my child?' to which she responded 'it makes me think of Baby P'"

Tutting once maybe could/should have been ignored, but four times?! Tutting in that fashion is berating someone for their childcaring decisions; just because there were no words at that stage makes no difference.

But then for the tutter to go on and equate that situation with the baby P abuse is just simply despicable. IMNSHO, a response of "fuck off" is perfectly justified. Some people need a really good wake-up call to remind them that the world doesn't revolve around them and their upset at listening to a child grizzling (for goodness sake, most children do that).

I'm an older woman - as far as I'm concerned that does not give me the right to a free pass for verbal abuse.

Don't spend any more time thinking about this, novicemama, except to think that your robust response might well have made that woman think twice before behaving that way again - and next time she wants to get all judgy-pants it could be towards a mum who doesn't have a support network and is at the end of her tether.

Undercovamutha · 29/03/2010 20:17

'I hate seeing mothers ignoring upset or distressed children. I think I'd have done a bit of tutting too.' FGS Nancy66.

You know nothing about the individual situation, so any tutting you may do would be completely rude and intrusive. When my DS gets very worked up, any attempts to calm him down just make him worse. The only thing that can be done is to leave him to calm himself down (in pushchair for example). He gets totally over-stimulated, and then needs his own space to calm down - shushing him, jiggling him, cuddling him merely exacerbates things. This seems to be the situation with the OP's DD.

It is incredibly hard when in public to have to put up with glares and tuts when you are actually doing the thing that will calm your DC down quickest and easiest. I would suspect that you and the older woman in the OP would prefer us to do what YOU think is right, rather than what we KNOW is right for OUR child.

Judgey, judgey, judgey.

Nancy66 · 29/03/2010 20:22

'You know nothing about the individual situation'

....i know what the OP has told me which is that she put her crying kid in a buggy and them ignored her - then called an old woman a 'fucking bitch.'

Judge? you bet.

farmerjones · 29/03/2010 20:23

have you all read a different op from the one i read?
the one i read said that a mumsnetter, i'm making the assumption she is youngish, as she is a mother, but lets say under 50, therefore not elderly... has shouted abuse, including offensive swearwords, at an elderly lady, in a public, crowded bus, with at least one child other than her own being able to hear her language..... and you are all telling her she did ok?

it is NEVER ok to swear at older people. no matter how rude or offensive, or judgy pants they may be.

not only at op, but at those of you telling her she was justified in her abuse.

BitOfFun · 29/03/2010 20:24

There was just no need for the OP to go all Travis Bickle on the woman- total over-reaction.

pigletmania · 29/03/2010 20:25

Nancy66 are you one of those tutting biddieselderly folk then

Horton · 29/03/2010 20:33

Why is it never okay to swear at old people? What if they are really vile? Don't you think it's pretty vile to basically equate normal parenting to how Baby P was treated?

I do think 'fuck off, you fucking bitch' was maybe a bit of an over-reaction but I don't think 'mind your own business, you nosy old cow' would have been at all out of place. I think I could probably have found it in me to add 'and fuck off' to that, too.

Also, please let's not forget that being on a bus with a grizzly toddler is apt to make most people lose their sense of humour/proportion slightly, whether they're directly responsible for them or not.

Nancy66 · 29/03/2010 20:33

...more of an eyebrow raiser and head shaker.

mrsruffallo · 29/03/2010 20:34

I think the OP has anger issues

mrsruffallo · 29/03/2010 20:35

Really Horton?
Her remark would probably have made me laugh, it's ludicrous

Undercovamutha · 29/03/2010 20:35

I am not defending the swearing at all - that was quite obviously wrong and excessive.

However why do we have to differentiate between older people and younger people in how they are spoken to? Is it okay to tut and be rude if you are older? Is it okay to swear at a younger person but not an older one? Being old doesn't come with a pass to be rude.

ImSoNotTelling · 29/03/2010 20:35

Is anyone else reading the same OP as me, where a woman said to a mother on a bus that she thought that she and her friends like to torture rape and murder children.

Of course it was utterly bizarre that the OP react to that accusation with anything other than a jolly laugh. Yes she was wrong to swear but blimey it's a godawful thing to say to someone.

If I was out with the kids and someone said that to me I would be really really really upset, I wouldn't be able to stop thinking about it. That someone would seriously and honestly believe that I could do that to my children. And on the basis that one is crying while out? Mine cry sometimes and thus if I ever see nancy66 I look forward to her thinking that I beat them. And other people to think I enjoy torturing them. Awful.

BitOfFun · 29/03/2010 20:36

I think you'll find that it does actually- one of the few things we've got to look forward to, IMO.

Vinomum · 29/03/2010 20:37

Hear hear ImSoNotTelling.

Horton · 29/03/2010 20:38

I don't know, mrsruffalo. Agree in the cold light of day that it is a stupid remark. If I was already feeling a bit hot and bothered (because my child was misbehaving, even a bit, in a public place, which is my responsibility etc), I would probably have been a bit cross and yes, I would have said something, although prob more along the lines of 'mind your own business''. But I am quite bad-tempered and my toddler grizzling on a bus would make me feel a bit on edge to begin with.

uglymugly · 29/03/2010 20:40

farmerjones:

"it is NEVER ok to swear at older people"

I disagree. It is OK to react so strongly to someone making an unacceptable comparison between what she saw on a bus and what happened to baby P.

Older people don't get a free pass.

BitOfFun:

I have no idea what "Travis Bickle" refers to, but then I am an older woman...

Total over-reaction? Would you want your parenting to be compared with that of baby P?

(Actually, BoF, mostly I do like reading what you write here, but I'm not sure what you mean by this response.)

Undercovamutha · 29/03/2010 20:41

I think more people should be confronted. Not with a 'what's your problem' but with a 'please don't be so rude, it's really uncalled for'.

My (ill) mother was spoken to very rudely by a lady in a queue at the pharmacy. The lady went on to mutter about my mother (who had done nothing, bizarrely), and then started to exclaim loudly that she was iller than my mother so should go first. I had no problem in telling this woman that she was very rude and that her attitude was uncalled for.

We shouldn't have to put up and shut up about people's rudeness and bad manners, but we also should not stoop to their level either.

Lulumaam · 29/03/2010 20:42

the OP confronted the tutting woman
who was tutting to show her disapproval
the OP asked her if she had a problem, basically squared up to her
and then when she got a mouthful, that could not have been unexpected, responded with foul language

am amazed at all these women who would struggle not to repsond in teh same way.

we castigate men and women for talking to their partners with such language, but it's ok to turn it on a n old lady on the bus??

chegirlWILLbeserene · 29/03/2010 20:42

novice when we let ourselves down like this we always feel bad. But dont stress.

I dont blame you for flying off the handle.

Why is it always up to us to take the higher moral tone?

I obviously prefer to utter some dazzling, witty riposte (sp) but sometimes 'fuck off you fucking bitch' is the only appropriate response IMO.

'Reminds me of Baby P' FFS.

MrsC2010 · 29/03/2010 20:42

I just can't imagine swearing at an old lady, however awful she might have been. Something suitable withering or sarcastic, yes. But "fuck off you fucking bitch"? No way. I have never spoken to anyone like that, but I certainly couldn't to an old lady.

BitOfFun · 29/03/2010 20:42

Let me see if I can find a link to explain- hang on a sec...

Vinomum · 29/03/2010 20:43

What difference does it make how old the woman was? Anyone with a modicum of human emotion would know that making that comment was the harshest possible thing you could say to any parent.

She thoroughly deserved the reaction she got.

Lulumaam · 29/03/2010 20:43

had the OP not confronted the older woman, it is more than lilkely the loud tutting would have contunued but nothing more, but once asked if she had a problem, then of course she was going to respond as she was clearly desperate to show her annoyance