to think that my DD has a right to a secular education

[Tinnitus]

Two years ago my DD came home to tell EXP and Me about the "true meaning of Christmas". We are both atheists and had purposely sought out a non religious school and so we were perplexed. We took every opportunity to explain that this story was just that, a story, not the literal truth.

Inevitably DD soon started on about the true meaning of Easter and so I made an appointment to see the headmistress of her school. By the time of the appointment I had learned from DD that it was a classroom helper who was feeding her this guff and not a teacher, and I felt a quiet word would suffice.

Imagine my surprise when I discovered that not only was the helper indoctrinating DD, but the local evangelical church held monthly assemblies with the children. Indeed it turns out that every school in the country must be affiliated with a church of some type, but is not obliged to brand themselves thus. The head mistress was courteous and obliging and agreed to my request that the brainwashing of DD stop. I made no demands about her education other than She does not come home spouting twaddle.

Two years on and she is beginning to again to talk about Heaven, Hell, God and the Devil. But she has no idea who Adam and Eve were. When I "tactfully" quizzed her about this I discover a local CofE vicar has been regularly talking to the children about his faith, but without emphasizing that it is only his own opinion. Worse still, He has had my DD praying in class.

I have asked the school to live up to their earlier agreement as calmly as I could.

AIBU

Ask for your child to be removed from that part of the assemblies.

There is no such thing as a secular education in the UK unfortunately - luckily dd's school is very low key about it all.

I say lucky as having had a catholic education I didn't want the same thing for my daughter.

If you're in Britain you don't get the choice (unless you pay for private secular education)

I agree with you - I think church and state should be separate (and I'm a Christian and adult ed. teacher)

By the way praying is really good for health even in atheists - they've conducted proper scientific trials so don't be too concerned about the praying

YANBU. What sort of school is it? How did you know it was a non religious school IYSWIM? If they publicise it as such then it should be.

Not sure you can blame the vicar for not saying it was just his opinion though. The responsibility lies with the school who made a promise to you, not the vicar who didn't.

As on the other thread, I'm Catholic and, of course, in favour of faith schools. But the flipside of this is that you have to allow for people who absolutely want no mention at all of religion in school. If you provide for one you should provide for all and if this school led you to believe they wouldn't be filling the kids' heads with this, then that's what they should stick to.

YABU.

It doesn't sound like brainwashing to me, but a normal education.

Is she taught about Diwali, Eid etc? Is this also brainwashing?

You could always home educate...

I would tend to agree with you OP that YANBU but the use of words like brainwashing, guff and twaddle are just rude, inflamatory, unnecessary and consequently YABU.

YANBU. I too would be very angry, especially as you have asked for the emphasis on religion to be removed, and it sounds like they have someone giving a sermon in your dd's classroom.

Just keep emphasizing to her that these are stories/opinions and not facts, and make sure she always gets another viewpoint which is not religious at home.

With any luck she will get like my dh, he was brought up in Catholic school, and helpfully turned up one day with probable dimensions for Noah's Ark, thanks to his friend who was a maths prodigy. . .it was VERY big indeed and his polite questions on how it would have been built in antiquity as it would be impossible to build even with modern engineering did not go down well!

Don't really think yabu but you should just ask your daughter to be removed from classes when religious is being discussed if you feel that strongly about it.

Personally I don't mind my children learning about the Christian religion as I can always discuss my views and religion at home. I also believe learning about different religions means that when they get older they are much better equipped to choose whatever path they wish to.

Btw op..........did you teach your children about santa and the tooth fairy et al? Just a curious question

also agree with Aussieng, the choice of your words can be considered offensive. If you don't like them fine, but there's no need to be quite so rude about it surely

Yabu.
You should count yourself lucky that you live in a society which allows its children to be educated at all. and not just those who can pay .You are privilaged.
Why not try looking at the bigger picture instead of griping about something so insignificant

What about telling your DD your side of it and trusting her as your daughter to make her own mind up about it all? Or would you prefer to maintain the ignorance is bliss path that you've asked the school to use on her?

But Christmas and Easter are based on religious events and it is important to know the true meaning isn't it? Instead of the present and egg fest that it's evolved into. All the children in my school are expected to pray in assembly but I'm sure most don't think of it as indoctrination but just a tedious interlude between showing work and handing out certificates.

YANBU.
But there are separate issues here.

1. The National Curriculum demands that each school hold an act of christian worship - though many flout this completely. Write you your MP and give your objections to this if you feel inclined.
2. The NC demands that children be taught ABOUT religions 'in addition to Christianity'. Being taught about a religion is totally different from being asked to particpate in it. Most people have no objection to thier child being taught ABOUT religion, but this school seem to have blurred the lines.
3. I don't think schools have to have an affiliation with a church.

Is this a community state school? By building heaven and hell into daily taching, an not just into RE and assembly, they do seem to be acting more like a faith school. I would talk with the Head.

YABU because you have the right to withdraw your DC from RE and acts of worship.So if you are unhappy , then exercise that right !

In the meeting with the head mistress I pointed out that DD was not to be separated from her friends as that would be a nightmare for her and cause a huge fuss. I really tried to leave this in their hands as much as possible so as to cause minimum disruption to DD.

I have no beef with RE. but this was RI which is a different animal. The RE at the school is as good as I would hope for.

Yes I do let her believe in Santa and the Tooth Fairy as neither of these will have her fearing an eternity of torment for minor indiscretions.

I would like to be more forceful with the school, but I don't want to embarrass DD or disrupt her education which in other respects is good.

I also object to my son coming home believing unverified beliefs are The Truth, and Really Real.

It's ridiculous that while he is expected to assess the reliability of his sources for history, he is also to accept that some people don't need to do this ever, and are allowed to spend half an hour telling him what they have extrapolated from this unreliable source as if it were the truth.

How would Christians feel if their children came home telling the story of Rama and Sita as if it was Really Real? Or Rumpelstiltskin? Or Robin Hood? It's no more absurd!

My dds primary school claims to be multicultural, and they do have a number of different faiths there. However, they still have the vicar come in every week to tell them Bible stories and they have to pray at the end of this assembly. It really winds me up. I think that children should be aware of Christianity as it is in our heritage in so many ways, but I totally disagree with this brainwashing malarky and thought it would be outdated by now. Dd is now insisting that it's all true (she's only 7 years old, mind) and that she wants to go to church, but there is no way I am doing that! I just hope she grows out of it soon.

The other thing that narks me about the school is that there are a number of Muslims that attend and I think that they could make the most of this and teach the children about Islam as well. But they don't.
GRRRRR!

Unfortunately people think that if you don't send your child to a faith school then you are sending them to a secular school, which is simply not true. There are no secular state schools in England-they are simply non denominational.
I don't really see a problem-there is absolutely nothing to say that the DC of an atheist will be an atheist, that a DC of a Christian will be a Christian or the DC of a Muslim will be a Muslim etc. If they have all sides they can make up their own mind. You can bring up your DC in a certain way, but you can't control their thoughts.

@ hocuspontas

Honestly I don't want to offend but neither festival was originally Christian. You'll have to google it, It would take far to long to explain.

It's so hard, isn't it, trying to find the balance between avoiding your child being fed religious beliefs that don't match your own, and having them branded as "that weird kid who has to sit outside during assembly".

We're Jewish, my 4yo DD1 is currently coming home spouting Easter stories as is they were fact and telling me how Jesus raises people from the dead. I would love to have her excluded from anything other than fair and balanced religious education (as opposed to Christian indoctrination). But I don't want her to be singled out as different.

Well I suppose it's good to have some knowledge of the bible if you go on to higher education- eng lit and all that.
I'm an atheist but am pretty laid back about it. DD gas a very good friend whose (lovely) parents are active in their church. She sometimes comes home talking about the baby 'cheesus' whom, she has deduced, eats alot of cheese.

It is different if a person in authority tells them it's true though.

By the time she's a teenager your DD will have her hnds in the air singing 'shine Jesus, shine,' every Sunday, just to piss you off

I think that schools should make it clear, but they don't. If you went to a state school in England then you will have had assemblies, sung hymns, celebrated Easter etc. Nothing has changed-it would have been a big news item if it had! If you read the Education Acts, it is quite clear-even to what percentage of the worship has to be Christian. Schools can opt out if they have predominantly other faiths, but it isn't easy-the steps they have to go through are clearly laid down. People moan, but unless you join the society for a secular Britain, and actively campaign,nothing will happen-not while church and state are intertwined.

I understand that there is a difference between religious worship and religious education. I would like religious worship removed from state schools and religious education made into a minor part of a new subject that served as an introduction to Anthropology, Philosophy and Equality and Diversity.

@ hocuspontas

Sorry, I just read my last post back and it sounds bad. I apologies.

try this