to think that my DD has a right to a secular education

[Tinnitus]

Two years ago my DD came home to tell EXP and Me about the "true meaning of Christmas". We are both atheists and had purposely sought out a non religious school and so we were perplexed. We took every opportunity to explain that this story was just that, a story, not the literal truth.

Inevitably DD soon started on about the true meaning of Easter and so I made an appointment to see the headmistress of her school. By the time of the appointment I had learned from DD that it was a classroom helper who was feeding her this guff and not a teacher, and I felt a quiet word would suffice.

Imagine my surprise when I discovered that not only was the helper indoctrinating DD, but the local evangelical church held monthly assemblies with the children. Indeed it turns out that every school in the country must be affiliated with a church of some type, but is not obliged to brand themselves thus. The head mistress was courteous and obliging and agreed to my request that the brainwashing of DD stop. I made no demands about her education other than She does not come home spouting twaddle.

Two years on and she is beginning to again to talk about Heaven, Hell, God and the Devil. But she has no idea who Adam and Eve were. When I "tactfully" quizzed her about this I discover a local CofE vicar has been regularly talking to the children about his faith, but without emphasizing that it is only his own opinion. Worse still, He has had my DD praying in class.

I have asked the school to live up to their earlier agreement as calmly as I could.

AIBU

This topic comes up on Mumsnet about every 2/3 months-people have a good moan, but no one does anything constructive! If you want to change you have to actively seek it, and get a lot of support, countrywide. It can be guaranteed to come up just before Christmas and Easter-Ash Wednesday seems to have passed by without a thread,this year(-crosses on foreheads generally sets people off!).

This doesn't sound any different to what was happening in schools when I was a child and given how many of my peers are atheist I don't think it has any long-term influence.

piscesmoon you said earlier that children with parents of a certain religious denomination aren't necessarily going to follow the same beliefs as their parents. As far as I'm concerned, that's fine. But you then said

"If they have all sides they can make up their own mind."

Which is precisely the point - they don't get all sides. They get taught that Christianity is "true" and aren't really taught about any other faiths until secondary school, where they may scratch the surface of another one or two religions. I doubt that anyone has actually studied every religion and made a balanced judgement. And most kids do follow their parent's religion, at least in the sense that they identify with it and fill in forms/claim to be Christian/Catholic or whatever regardless of when they last went to church or whether they actually believe.

You are so not being unreasonable!
unless of course they have a monthly assembly and visits from church leaders from OTHER religions.
But i bet not.
[and i also dont think you are being unreasonable to call it twaddle. call it what you like, the church call it fact, which by same logic is insulting to people who belive in the evolutionary theory. do not apologise]

i fel really sorry for you that you even have this issue, RE is good, but this is too extreme and just one religion. interested to hear how you plan to deal with this without ostracising your DD.

@ piscesmoon

The point is that I did do something and they have ignored me.

Campaigning is no good as people feel I've deprived my child of a religion, or that any objection to indoctrination is offensive, unless I use fawning terms to describe thing I find offensive.

I know I feel strongly about this but my wishes should count for something.

My children (who are 4, 5 and 7) are taught about other faiths...

They have a weekly assembly with either the parish vicar or the minister from the village chapel, and pray at least twice a day (at lunchtime and hometime), but they are still taught about other religions and their festivals. It is part of their curriculum.

I don't object to them being taught the story of Rama and Sita and making pretty Rangoli patterns, nor do I object to them being taught the Easter story and making donkey masks for Palm Sunday!

Isn't two thirds of that covered in Citizenship anyway - and if you check the GCSE RE syllabus, community cohesion, equality and diversity are already covered.

DS is at a school where they don't teach RE, and it really ticks me off, so he will be doing GCSE RE at home with me.

RE no doubt deals with equality and diversity of faith groups, but it is not going to deal with equality and diversity of cultural groups, unless they are primarily religious.

It is really annoying but, agree, religious instruction doesn't necessarily equate to belief when an adult. I went to a Catholic school and am a total non-believer now. In fact, I worry now that mine will have nothing to reject and may become religious

No problem Tinnitus! I didn't even put Christian in my post But I get your point. My children have been lucky in that their schools have not instructed them in anyway and only covered Christianity as part of the curriculum in the same way as Diwali, Eid etc.
I agree that religious worship should not be compulsory in non-faith schools.

Britain is not a secular state so as others have pointed out there's no right to secular education.

I agree it's a shame if the school in question doesn't have multi-faith assemblies and present things as though they are many paths up the same metaphorical mountain though. FWIW when I was at a state primary we went to a Hindu temple, synagogues and a gurudwara (sp?) as well as having the Christian input but it was in a very multicultural area. I suspect more, um, WASP areas might be predominantly Christian and therefore schools are more Christian in focus.

Don't you celebrate christmas and easter then?

Who is that to? I enjoy eating choc at Easter and giving presents and overstuffing myself at christmas. I don't call that "celebrating" though

I think religion and education should be seperated - thre shouldn't be any faith schools.

I guess that's a whole other thread.

I am about to sign a form to say DD can Maypole dance on May day. Should I not sign it as it would be hypocrisy as I don't worship the Horned God or fertility gods in general who have appeared as avatars?

I think you worry about these things too much. UK is a mainly Christian country, and religion actually plays a huge cultural role. To that end I think it useful that children cover religion at school. Though it should be ALL religion imho.

Faith is a different thing entirely and should be always the responsibility of the family. And the end of the day, I always go with "this is what some people believe, and their views should be respected" line.

When I was a child I fully believed in God, the Easter Bunny, Santa, the toothfairy etc etc. Guess what.......

Actually I think that dcs should learn about all the options and make their OWN minds up about what they want to believe. That is their right. "This is a lie" is just as bad as "This is true" imho.

Quite honestly-if you are an atheist and want your DC to be an atheist then they easiest way is to expose them to school assemblies! I go to a lot, and ones led by the vicar (with a few exceptions)are fairly boring. I would bet that you can count on one hand the number of people who have been converted to Christianity by school assemblies! It is a sure way of putting them off-much better than making it a mystery. Possibly at 5/6 yrs they 'get God' but I don't think it lasts long.

I like a good hymn myself! And christmas carols. I'd hate dd to miss out these things, even if I am a complete non-believer.

my DC's are atheist. i used the 'some people believe' line until they were old enoigh to ask my own personal opinion.
i would hate overly religious schooling. i think knowing about other cultures is v. important but am biased and think english and art are far more important than science and maths. guhh. how can i have raised two children who are good at maths!

Being an expat, I was not aware that state schools were not secular. I would not want my child taught religion in primary years, when they are old enough to make a decision about what classes to take and if they choose religion then this would be fine. However to have a school subject my child to this... another tick in the direction of private education.

I love reading and I have produced 3 DCs who don't read for pleasure! I loathe team games and have 2 DCs who love them. I am a Christian and I have 3 DCs who are atheists. I could go on with lots of examples. I am quite happy with this-they are quite happy with it and we all get on fine-why on earth should they think the same as me? I love my mother to bits-but I don't follow all the same beliefs. Many a vicar has atheist parents and many a vicar has atheist children.
I don't see any harm in them hearing other views.I don't even see any harm in people telling them they are 'true'-surely you bring up your child to question and not follow blindly just because someone says so?
I think that RE has a place in school, I don't think that collective worship does, but I don't think that it matters. I doubt whether anyone could come up with someone who has been changed by a school assembly. The majority won't even be able to tell you what it was about by the end of the day!(they certainly can't half an hour later-I have tested it!)

I would take great care with private education, canucktraveler and make sure that you ask the right questions-don't assume anything. Many private schools have a Christian ethos.