to be disappointed that the inmate who attacked Ian Huntley didn't do a better job?

[Vallhala]

Unfortunately it appears that Huntley will survive.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8579226.stm

AIBU in thinking that it's a pity that the harm caused to Huntley wasn't fatal?

Bibbity is that true about cost? I've often wondered why prisoners aren't doing hard labour or something to benefit society rather than sitting on their asses watching tv and getting qualifications at the tax payer's expense ...

The Death penalty being brought back imo is the only way to stamp out the scum like huntley. he is not worthy of tax payers money keeping him.

On 31 March 2008, there were 10,911 prisoners serving an indeterminate sentence (life imprisonment or Imprisonment for Public Protection) in prisons in England and Wales. This total is made up of approximately 4,170 offenders sentenced to an indeterminate sentence of Imprisonment (or Detention) for Public Protection (IPP/DPP).

10,577 of the total indeterminate population were men, 334 were women. 818 of the total population were young offenders.

Jailing one criminal costs the taxpayer as much as £140,000 a year.

Huntley is serving a 40yr sentence that is, going by that figure, a total of
£5600000.
The average cost of a burial in Britain is £2048 and the cost of a cremation
to £1215.

I know which one I would rather contribute to!!

So say there is 0.1% chance of a wrongful conviction - are you happy that 10 innocent people be killed?

I did say that if the evidence proved you had committed a murder then yes the death penalty should be the result.

Of course the evidence would have to be pretty concrete

You have to work out the detail too - in the US, the cost of a prisoner being on death row and then being finally executed can exceed the cost of a whole life tariff due to the cost of all the extra appeals etc.

TheLadyEvenstar - that's still puting a lot of faith in your/someone elses ability to evaluate that. I think that in ANY system that relies on people there will be mistakes. So inevitably innocent people would die.

Nothing will change my mind or opinion that a proven murderer/rapist or peadophile should face the death penalty

I don't want the death penalty back ever. I want to know these prisoners locked up for life, with no protection from life in the prison.

As for the costs, these are overall costs, I assume for running the prisons. Not for one individual. I pay my taxes to keep public services going and part of that is to keep murderers out of society.

Haven't read through the whole thread, but in a way YABU...

Huntley is serving his sentence in HMP Frankland. This prison mainly houses men with at least 4yr remaining on their sentence and also specialises in IPP and life (IPP means in for public protection and life is pretty self explanatory). It is likely that Huntley was housed with other offenders serving similar sentences for similar crimes...

In all honesty, and with fear of being attacked from fellow Mumsnetters, I couldn't care whether Huntley (and Steven barker who was 'napalmed' last month) lives or dies, but what I do fear is that the general public make a 'hero' out of someone who is serving time for a crime that is almost as horrific as the person that they attacked.

I hope I make sense.

ooojim,

I will always put faith in people to get rid of scum like huntley. the thought of that thing getting 3 meals a day, warmth,a bed, a home albeit a prison, tv, radio etc sickens me when you consider the 2 little girls he killed in cold blood will never do any of the things he got to do in his youth. they would now be 18 and going to uni maybe, making something of their lives but he put a stop to that. Why on earth does he deserve to have a life where he can get on with things?
Those little girls didn't get a second chance, they never ever will. Their families, will never see those girls finish school get jobs, boyfriends or marry.

IMHO he should be dead, he should be rotting in hell

TheLadyEvenstar - What NOTHING? I can understand nothing HERE changing your mind, but if it was shown that introducing the death penalty would DEFINITELY mean that innocent people would be murdered by the state, or that it would increase serious crime you would STILL be in favour of it?

If you kill 1000 huntleys, and in the process kill 1 innocent person do you see this as acceptable?

ooojim, read my earlier post where i state that the death penalty should be used for scum who have been proven to have committed the crime. Obviously where DNA evidence stacks up against them along with witness statements etc

TBH i would rather 1 innocent be killed than a 1000 Huntley's living after committing such a heinous crime.

TheLadyEvenstar I hate to play devils advocate but there have been many people wrongfully committed of crimes - Angela Canings, Sally Clark, Trupti Patel and Donna Anthony to name a few. They were wrongfully convicted based on the 'EXPERT' report from Professor Sir Roy Meadow.

Thank God we do not have the death penalty, otherwise we could have killed these ladies. Sadly, Sally Clark and Angela Cannings died, but not before their lives had been destroyed by our legal system.

I believe we have a fantastic legal system within the UK, but it is not without its mistakes. I ask TheLadyEvenstar would you feel the same about the death penalty, if you or your family were the 1 innocent killed?

Let's just hope you're not that one innocent, right Lady...?

In fact, would you be willing to offer up your own life if the state promised to then off 1000 murderers as well? Would you? Genuine question.

Your post doesn't make any sense TLES. Either someone is guilty of a crime or they aren't. You can't have a system whereby someone is guilty of murder and the evidence is strong enough to hang them and another person has also been found guilty but ummm we're not entirely sure so we'll keep them in prison for a bit.

And I will revert to the argument that I always do with people who support capital punishment - either killing is wrong or it isn't. You can't have it both ways. Being state sanctioned doesn't make it alright.

Ah yes, further proof that one of the best stupidity-indicators going is being in favour of capital punishment.

My mum is legal secretary and her boss gave his services for free to a young man who had been sentenced for murder.

He firmly believed that the young man was innocent and that the evidence presented was flawed.

Turns out he was right, the young man was released (eventually) and some years later another man confessed to the crime.

Okay, I accept it is rare, but false imprisonment does happen and for that reason I could never condone capital punishment.

However, I do think its about time prisons were more of a punishment, the whole playstation/tv/gym thing for peados and murderers really pisses me off.

I would leave the Huntleys of this world locked up and left to their own devices - if they do harm to each other, I dont think I would lose any sleep over it.

I am far from stupid SGB.

I have seen too people hurt by serious crimes this clouds my opinion on the death penalty I am the first to admit that.

However I stand by my opinion that child killers, child molesters, rapists and murderers - if all the dna evidence, witness evidence, and any other evidence stacks up against them and there is solid proof that they committed the crime then yes they should face the death penalty.

However if there is doubt then I would not want to see them face the death penalty.

The doubt is the difficult part. Sometimes the evidence is stacked up against them-seemingly 'without doubt' and they are innocent. I don't think that it is acceptable for society to take the risk-a pardon after they are dead is no use to them or their family!
If you have the death penalty, someone has to carry out the deed. I don't think that anyone should be asked to kill by the state.(If they are volunteering, because they relish the job then they shouldn't be considered for the post.)

I disagree with the death penalty and always have. Who are we to decide whose lives get taken? Where is our moral superiority when we start killing others?

"What SGB, MayorQuimby, Wannabee and Bibbety have said"

Can't be arsed reading another kneejerk DM thread, but am imagining that they are part of the unfortunately very few people talking any sense whatsoever on here.

Apologies if I've left anyone reasonable out.

Hope he lives in fear every single day till he dies. Hope all his ilk do.

"In all honesty, and with fear of being attacked from fellow Mumsnetters, I couldn't care whether Huntley (and Steven barker who was 'napalmed' last month) lives or dies, but what I do fear is that the general public make a 'hero' out of someone who is serving time for a crime that is almost as horrific as the person that they attacked.

I hope I make sense."

A lot of sense Bunnyjo.

If we agree with criminals dishing out 'justice' then we have all descended to their level.