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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

get police involved or not ?

294 replies

elmofan · 20/03/2010 17:26

hi , have posted about my ds going through hell by the hands of a bully in his class before but things have started up again yesterday ,
brief history = ds (11yrs) was beaten up last year by two boys in his class , he received kicks to his head & upper body & ended up suffering terrible headaches & having tests & an MRI scan which thankfully was clear so headaches were put down to stress
yesterday ds got punched in his stomach at lunchtime by bully then chased down the road to where the school car park is the bully was trying to beat him up again , ds has told me the bully keeps making "cut throat signs " & telling ds he is going to kill him , so i stepped out of my car yesterday when i saw ds running for his life & this boy continued to threaten my ds while i was standing right there beside him
no fear in him what so ever .
AIBU ?
i am sick & tired of going up to the principal about this as she does not seem to do anything about it , i intend to go back up on Monday morning to tell her i am going to have to get he police involved at this stage as she seems unable to put a stop to this bully . this has been going on for two years now .

OP posts:
tatt · 24/03/2010 10:27

elmofan - this is just what schools do when they know they are in the wrong. Your child will not have to put up with being physically assaulted when he is an adult and there is no reason for him to do so now.

Just keep reminding her that physical violence is involved here, that your son has not made comments until his life was threatened and that he is entitled to defend himself in that situation. He is not "provoking" the other boy, he is defending himself when threatened. Keep turning the situation back on her - ask her how she expects your son to deal with the bullying behaviour when she is apparently unable to do so. Ask if she is planning to run any assertiveness training at the school and if not why not. Ask if there is another class so that the bully can be moved away from your son.

Outside activities may be useful for building a peer group to help defend your son. Does the school have a circle of friends or buddy system where other children befriend those who are being bullied or Anti Bullying Campaign peer counsellors? If not suggest them to her. Maybe suggest that the school staff might need more training.

The issue is not your son and his home life but why a child is being permitted to physically assault another.

oldenglishspangles · 24/03/2010 10:30

Agree with others you need to take this over the principals head. All the parties involved here have different agendas:-

You want the bullying to stop and justice for your son.

Principal - the buck stops with her for what goes on at the school. She has two choics - 1. admit the school has failed in its duty of care and take immediate action or

  1. try to absolve school of any incompetance. Which of those do you think she is likely to favour given your experience of her?

The Bully / family - to asbolve their child of any wrong doing ' its just kids blah blah blah..'. They will do whatever they can to undermine your son and you.

Whether he likes football / karate or not is immaterial. Even if he did say 'piss off' - does that warrant a thump? Would the head teacher consider that a unique selling point of her school think not. Just bite the bullet and take action.

elmofan · 24/03/2010 10:38

screamineagle - thanks your right & i needed that . x
can't stop crying just yet as i have been holding the tears in all day yesterday , the dc's are in school & dh is in work so need to get this out of my system but i will not let the head get away with trying to turn the tables on ds i promise . i have just phoned the board of ed bullying help line & spoke to a lovely man who has given me the direct number of the complaints department & the lady i need to file a complaint with , so this is now official & the man has also told me that i have given the head too many chances & i should now go to the police station & file a complaint against the bully & his parents . he has advised me to register my letter to the board of management so that i have proof that the school received it , & that because no one can tell who the board of management are then i can send letter " care of the school " but address it to the chairperson of BOM . so that helps .

OP posts:
HanBanan · 24/03/2010 10:41

WTF?! The principal is a complete donut.

Forget trying to sort it out with this woman, she's obviously incapable of helping you due to the shit in her brains.

You need to speak to her superiors. Go to the board. If you don't get what you want, go to the local education authority. If you don't get what you want go to your MP etc etc. Keep working up the line until you get the answer you need. They have to respond, legally.

As you know and that twat of a head doesn't seem to understand your son is a victim of bullying, has most likely been picked by random by the bully, and should not take any blame for his bullying. Insinutating that because he doesn't take part in out of school activities or that he fidgets a lot in class or is immature is a load of bollocks.

I think the head is trying to cover this all up and hope it will go away because she is inadequate to deal with it and also doesn't want people to know what a shit head she is.

I would seriously consider taking your son out of this school until it gets sorted.

And well done so far, now get angry and make it your mission to take that head to the cleaners because frankly she shouldn't be incharge of any school.

veryconfusedandupset · 24/03/2010 10:43

I have not read the entire thread either, but on th e whole I do feel to involve the police or threaten to is the right move in this sort of situation. A few years ago DS1 was the victim of obnoxious behaviour from a boy in his year at school - it is hard to say it was bullying as such because the bully was a total PITA to everyone and a bit of a weedy inadequate character himself. Anyway, the bully was spraying people with deodorant and setting the vapour on fire, and did this to my son - spraying it on his back in a lesson so there were flames and heat - while the teacher was out of the room for a moment. Despite the fact that my son had witnesses the school initially refused to believe it could happen in class and refused to do anything.

I wrote to the headmaster pointing out that Arson with intent or being reckless as to endangering life was a very serious criminal offence carrying, portntially, life inprisonment and that I would be contacting the police if they did nothing. All ds1's friends prepared written statements and handed them in and eventually the bully was excluded for a while. After that his behaviour improved quite a lot and he certainly gave us no more trouble, so it did work. We are all subject to the criminal law from age 10 + and it is totally wrong for schools to try to keep the police out of a matter just because it suits them.

elmofan · 24/03/2010 10:59

OK buzzybb where are you when i need you

have pen in hand & getting ready to write to the board of management .

anyone here good at writing letters please ?

OP posts:
ScreaminEagle · 24/03/2010 11:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

elmofan · 24/03/2010 11:10

ok brilliant so i am going o make a list of all the points that i need to put in the letter , thanks xx

OP posts:
lotster · 24/03/2010 12:28

Keep it up Elmo - It goes to the heart of us when someone questions how well we've brought up our children, she is praying on that fear that every mum has, don't let her make you feel paranoid and doubt yourself lovely.

All us mumsnetters can't be wrong. We'll help you through it.

x

porcamiseria · 24/03/2010 13:05

elmo

i hope this thread has made you feel better and strong enought to fight against the bully boy and the bully BITCH head. shocking.

as others have said, dont take this. keep pushing and fighting. this behaviour is unacceptable and is poor teaching. I think some major shit will flow to the head when this comes to light

good luck

Casserole · 24/03/2010 13:26

Give a list of every individual occurance you can think of that has happened; big AND small - because together the whole list builds up the big picture. Don't worry if it gets really long, that's kind of the point.

Do a paragraph for each incident. Try to give dates if you can, even rough ones likes "October 2009" or even "Autumn Term 2009". Outline what happened in the incident, who witnessed it and what the outcome was. Detail your son's response, including his emotion if appropriate, but keep your own emotion out of it at this point.

After you've catalogued them all, then write about the contacts you have had with the head teacher on this subject. List anything she promised to do, or don't be afraid to say "Mrs X was not able to give me any information on this occasion as to what the school would do to protect DS". Again, try and keep your emotion out of it at this stage. You don't need to say things like "I was furious when she suggested this....." - her lack of action is testament enough to how crap she is. At this point, don't muddy the waters by sounding overly emotional yourself. You want to sound in control and objective at this point.

After you've catalogued all your contacts with her, then move on to say that, because you had tried extensively to work with the school to no avail, you then tried to seek help from alternative sources. Then you detail every conversation you have had with the Guard, the anti-bullying people, etc. What they have suggested you do and what their advice was.

Then you move on to talk about the effect this is having on your son, your whole family, and you. This is the bit where you can say what a detrimental effect this is having on all your mental and emotional health. Bring in at this point the conversation you had with your GP and what he said. At this point you CAN express how angry, let down, etc you feel, and let them have an insight into how this is impacting on you all.

Then take some of the legal stuff people posted about about schools responsibility to safeguard children from bullying. Google the relevant passages on the internet and quote them in your letter.

Then end with a reasonable paragraph about how you hope that they can see that you really have exhausted every option open to you, and that you need them now to act on your behalf to put a stop to this. Here you want to aim to sound reasonable but firm and determined.

Copy the letter to your local paper, to your local MP (sorry don't know Irish equivalent), to your GP (get them to write in support of you too), to the LA and to the Guards. Write at the bottom of your letter, after your signature, each person you are copying it too, e.g.

Yours sincerely,
Casserole

cc: Mr Smith, MP
Dr Gilbert, GP
Mr Bloggs, Chief Education Officer, LA

etc

Seriously, I used to work reasonably high up in education for an LA and copying in those people does get shit hitting fans, but they need to see that you have copied in those people. Try and find a contact person for each establishment - ring your MP's office and get his/her name if you don't already know it, and ring your LA and ask for the name of the Director of Children, Schools and Families (or whatever your equivalent is)

Hope that helps.

elmofan · 24/03/2010 13:32

thanks lotster & porcamiseria
everyone on this thread has been very kind & supportive
you all have been a tower of strength to me, i am very grateful xxx

OP posts:
Casserole · 24/03/2010 13:32

Sorry, just to add that when you're quoting the legal stuff you need to frame it in terms of the school not meeting their statutory (legal) obligations, e.g.

(DISCLAIMER: the following isn't the law, I'm making stuff up just to show you what I mean)

The Education Act for Ireland (1983) states clearly that every school should have an anti-bullying policy in place. The Every Child Matters Act (1994) states "every child should be free to engage in education without fear for his or her physical safety". Over the last 2 years, DS has been the subject of over 30 incidences of bullying. The result of these occurances is that he is now withdrawn and fearful and unwilling to go to school. It seems to me, therefore that X school is currently failing in it's statutory duty to DS under the above guidance, and therefore I am asking for the help of the school management board to put measure in practice to comply with these guidances, so that DS can once again fully and joyfully engage with education and learning.

Something like that. That's just off the top of my head so not brilliant, but you get the gist.

TiggyR · 24/03/2010 14:16

Sorry if this has already been said as I've only skimmed through the whole thread, but if you are having trouble getting any proof by your son a small digital dictaphone to carry around with him in his pocket. It's no bigger than a mobile phone and as soon as he goes into a place where he feels vulnerable he can click the record button and it will record for about half an hour. That way if they try to deny they did anything there will be the proof for school and their parents to deal with. Most kids when faced with this would back off pretty sharpish.

tatt · 24/03/2010 14:26

Good post by casserole. Might want to put a lot of the detail in an annex with the covering letter saying that you have tried to work with the school (give dates to show how long) but your son is still being bullied and you need other help.

Some websites that might be useful to find out about legal requirements in Ireland bullying support

official guidance

elmofan · 24/03/2010 15:10

casserole thats brilliant thank you xx , i will lay out my letter like that , i really appreciate you taking time to post that, that will be a great help .
i am just home after picking ds up from school & he came to the car with a huge smile which i have not seen on his face in quite awhile , he said he had a great day today in school , 1 other boy in his class who is a good bit older that ds (12yrs) tried to threaten ds in the classroom , he kicked ds under the table & ds told him to stop , then out in yard he told ds he was going to beat him up guess who ran to get help for ds x , (pot kettle black) anyway x stood up for ds & warned the the other boy off . then x & the rest of the class told their teacher & the child was sent to the principals office & kept there with her for the rest of the day the school has never acted so quickly before . x has asked ds to make friends & told ds that if anyone ever touches him again x will sort them out , lol kids eh
reckon his parents have put the fear of god into him .
anyway all the children wanted to play with ds today because they were too afraid of x picking on them for being ds's friend before but we will see how long that lasts .
do you all still think i should send these letters seeing as the school seem to be taking action at long last ?

OP posts:
sitdownpleasegeorge · 24/03/2010 15:19

Do you think the principal has told x's parents that you are intending to contact the police and they have tipped the boy off that he needs to be extra nice to your ds therefore from now on ?

NoseyNooNoo · 24/03/2010 15:29

Start writing the letters. It could all slide back again in a few days. If it doesn't that's great but if it does you have the letters ready to go.

Anyway, the complaint is about the school's handling about the situation, not about the boy himself.

elmofan · 24/03/2010 17:23

sorry dh came in from work just after my last post so have been telling him all the latest info , i have made good progress today as my sister has a family friend who is on the board of ed , i really tried to avoid asking this man to help but my sister has asked him for me therefore taking the onus off of me it turns out he was horrified , & got on board immediately ,he is high up on the Board so if he cant help no one can , he has phoned another man & briefly asked for him to step in & help me , this man then phoned me & gave me fantastic advice . told me to write to BOM & explain that my next step is to involve the police & make this a "CHILD PROTECTION ISSUE WITH THE HSE" this will make the school panic & this is the last thing they will want as it will mean the school will be put under investigation . i have spent the most of today on the phone , i am worn out but am going to sit down with dh & start writing those letters . then buy family friend a very nice bottle of wine .

if only i could treat you all to a drink too , you have all given me so much support & advice i am over whelmed tbh . xxxx

OP posts:
lotster · 24/03/2010 17:27

Oh that's amazing Elmo - finally a hero!!

Even though the boy is making friends, it may not last, plus they still need to seriously look at the way they deal with these issues.

elmofan · 24/03/2010 17:30

yes lotster , dh just a bit worried about how they might treat dd(4yrs) as she is due to start there in sept ,

OP posts:
lotster · 24/03/2010 17:35

If anything she may get better treatment?

If you are friendly with her actual day to day teachers and get them on side it doesn't really matter if you're not best friends with the head. Some of them might not like/agree with their boss anyway as in many workplaces.

If she did her job you wouldn't have to take this action anyway...

Buzzybb · 24/03/2010 17:49

Elmo Well done you and Cassrole has given you everything you needed I think
Sorry my head is all over the place as we have had another sudden death in our family group 2 in 2 weeks the funneral directors are like my best friends at the moment
I will check back later when my brain is in gear and I can be sensible. I only checked in to see how you were doing

elmofan · 24/03/2010 18:08

omg buzzybb i am so sorry & here you are helping me out i feel terrible now as you are going through an awful time [sad ] xxx

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PorphyrophillicPixie · 24/03/2010 18:22

This is a response to the OPost, I'm going out for dinner soon but will definately read this later:

Please go to the police. I had a fight after putting up with bullying for years and just ended up retaliating. Went to the police as the girl bit me and they said to let the school handle it. The school didn't even give her detention

I wish I'd gone to the police and actually got her charged with something as it really screwed me over mentally.

A lot of schools will do fuck-all unless they absolutely have too!